drag only belt routing - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 Old 11-24-2017, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
bamabox's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Hartford, CT
Posts: 676
Garage
drag only belt routing

posted this over in modular/svt forum because it's a 4V....................crickets. so see if there's any takers here.

As title says, this is a strip only car. This winter going manual steering and brakes and electric water pump. Above pic shows ps pump still on, but it's gone. essentially all I need to drive is the alt. so all these pulleys just to drive alt is driving me crazy trying to figure it out. would like to use Mezeire elec pump with no idler, but belt would hit it coming down from alt to crank, so I guess I have to get one with an idler.
What would happen if I just put a snug belt with no tensioner between the alt and crank? the ribbed side of the belt would end up against the idler on the elec pump. is that bad? would it have a tendency to "walk"? would it wear off the ribs quickly?

any thoughts appreciated. btw, big pulley lower left if ac delete, 03 Mach 1 motor.

[IMG][/IMG]


99 coupe. C4/8Ē 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
bamabox is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 11-28-2017, 11:36 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 2,780
If it's drag only, why the Alt?

Put a 16v battery in it and call it a day.


O.G. X275 racer
1.17 60' [email protected] with the angry peanut!
1.16 60' [email protected] on 1 gun (In testing)
88gtguy is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 11-28-2017, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
bamabox's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Hartford, CT
Posts: 676
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88gtguy View Post
If it's drag only, why the Alt?

Put a 16v battery in it and call it a day.
Iím not sure how a 16v battery would work with stock pcm? The other issue would be consumption of power during a run, driving to staging lanes, driving back to pits, starting car several times in the lanes etc, all with EFI, pcm, electric water pump, electric fuel pump, at least a taillight at night on the track etc. Have read that itís a bit risky with all of the above. Low voltage causing serious issues on an EFI car. Carbed car with minimal electronics of course.

Of course if not of the above are issues, that would be a potential solution.

99 coupe. C4/8Ē 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
bamabox is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 Old 11-29-2017, 09:51 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamabox View Post
Iím not sure how a 16v battery would work with stock pcm? The other issue would be consumption of power during a run, driving to staging lanes, driving back to pits, starting car several times in the lanes etc, all with EFI, pcm, electric water pump, electric fuel pump, at least a taillight at night on the track etc. Have read that itís a bit risky with all of the above. Low voltage causing serious issues on an EFI car. Carbed car with minimal electronics of course.

Of course if not of the above are issues, that would be a potential solution.
I can't speak to the stock computer in the car.. I can't imagine it would care. I don't know where you've been reading what ever you've been reading.. but from real world experience... 16v battery is just fine, just put the car on a charger between rounds/passes

IF it's a race car, why are you starting it in the staging lanes? Push it... Why build undue heat?

Driving back and forth from the staging lanes, return road isn't going to be an issue either.

Besides that, if you have an underdrive pulley on your alt, it's not charging at idle anyway. and think about it, how much charging is really happening when you're making a pass? 7-12 sec worth if you're running 1/4, much less 1/8th mile.

Something to note: A predominance of nitrous pro-mods these days are EFI and have to run everything you're worried about and a gang of nitrous soleniods as well. It IS true they are towed up and back, and are pushed in the lanes. But will draw far more current than you ever will during a pass.

In the carb days, there was a guy, and I forget his name, but he was running his entire car on an 18v drill battery to save weight. (carb/nos car)

Moral of the story... It's a race car you don't need an alternator.

O.G. X275 racer
1.17 60' [email protected] with the angry peanut!
1.16 60' [email protected] on 1 gun (In testing)
88gtguy is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 11-29-2017, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
bamabox's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Hartford, CT
Posts: 676
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88gtguy View Post
I can't speak to the stock computer in the car.. I can't imagine it would care. I don't know where you've been reading what ever you've been reading.. but from real world experience... 16v battery is just fine, just put the car on a charger between rounds/passes
iíve done quite a few searches on this site and others. This appears to be one of those, everybody has an opinion, and itís about 50/50 going no alt on a car with the elec load I have.
IF it's a race car, why are you starting it in the staging lanes? Push it... Why build undue heat?
1. I will be 70 yo next season, itís hard enough climbing over the bar getting in and out. No thanks. 2. I get the motor very cool between rounds with a fan, so heat is a non-issue.
Driving back and forth from the staging lanes, return road isn't going to be an issue either.

Besides that, if you have an underdrive pulley on your alt, it's not charging at idle anyway. and think about it, how much charging is really happening when you're making a pass? 7-12 sec worth if you're running 1/4, much less 1/8th mile.
that is a point well taken and worth investigating. Would have to figure out charging rate at high rpms, vs load etc. but one should be able to calculate the outcome.
Got some time to figure it out. Worth investigating.

99 coupe. C4/8Ē 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
bamabox is offline  
post #6 of 12 Old 11-30-2017, 03:53 PM
Registered User
 
5gearbanging's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 143
Garage
If you have an electric water pump, I would say fire the car up and see what the draw is in the garage, see how many starts and how long it will idle before voltage starts to drop in a controlled environment. That will give you a base line at least. I do know a few racers who ran 16v batteries and no alt with their EFI drag cars.

90 LX Notch 5.0 5spd, bolt on drag car with some giggle gas.
11.71 @ 116mph
86 Gt T-top 5.0 5spd, That one day project.
5gearbanging is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 11-30-2017, 04:08 PM
Corral Elite Member
 
Saleen414's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Levant, Maine
Posts: 2,265
16 volt battery works just fine. In fact I am converting my car to 16 volt this winter, removing 200 amp alt. I run 2 Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pumps, electric water pump, electric cooling fan, I//C pump, S/C water pump, lights work at night, Fast XFI engine management system, line lock, trans brake solenoid, Big tach. I am sure I am missing something. Car gets driven to the lanes and back to the pits after a run. I am not to worried about loss of voltage. Re-charge after a run and call it good. To be fair, the 2nd fuel pump only comes on for the run, and is off otherwise. I/C pump only runs during the run, obviously the line lock and trans brake are temporary loads.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
Saleen414 is offline  
post #8 of 12 Old 11-30-2017, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
bamabox's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Hartford, CT
Posts: 676
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
16 volt battery works just fine. In fact I am converting my car to 16 volt this winter, removing 200 amp alt. I run 2 Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pumps, electric water pump, electric cooling fan, I//C pump, S/C water pump, lights work at night, Fast XFI engine management system, line lock, trans brake solenoid, Big tach. I am sure I am missing something. Car gets driven to the lanes and back to the pits after a run. I am not to worried about loss of voltage. Re-charge after a run and call it good. To be fair, the 2nd fuel pump only comes on for the run, and is off otherwise. I/C pump only runs during the run, obviously the line lock and trans brake are temporary loads.
So you have not actually done this yet. Curious what research you did to know it will work and not affect anything adversley, especially your Fast XFI. I donít know anything about their processor, but I did call Ford Racing tech line, and they were unsure about pushing 16+ volts through the stock pcm. They seemed to think it was designed for a 12V system, but were not sure. Somebody in the Ford world knows, I just need to find them, or someone who has run 16V successfully through a stock (in my case a 2001 Cobra) pcm. If the car wonít start............no big deal. If Low voltage somewhere in the system causes the injectors to go lean, thatís a big deal. Appreciate the input and good luck with your conversion.

99 coupe. C4/8Ē 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
bamabox is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 11-30-2017, 10:13 PM
Corral Elite Member
 
Saleen414's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Levant, Maine
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamabox View Post
So you have not actually done this yet. Curious what research you did to know it will work and not affect anything adversley, especially your Fast XFI. I donít know anything about their processor, but I did call Ford Racing tech line, and they were unsure about pushing 16+ volts through the stock pcm. They seemed to think it was designed for a 12V system, but were not sure. Somebody in the Ford world knows, I just need to find them, or someone who has run 16V successfully through a stock (in my case a 2001 Cobra) pcm. If the car wonít start............no big deal. If Low voltage somewhere in the system causes the injectors to go lean, thatís a big deal. Appreciate the input and good luck with your conversion.
My friend has done it in his race car with no problems. Also Fast XFI, electric water pump, electric fan, digital dash/datalogger, ignition system (MSD digital 7) Tach, trans brake, line lock ect. I will admit that he tows up to the lanes and tows back to the pits, but he can go 2 rounds before recharging the battery. With that result, I felt confident that I could do something similar. Using one of these batteries....GO Lithium Intelligent Power Racing Battery/Charger Package

I have removed 17 lbs of alternator/cables and 28 lbs of battery just from this conversion alone.

edit: BTW, I have used a Kenne Bell boost-a-pump at 20 volts on various items with no issues, mostly the I/C pump. It works fantastic.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!

Last edited by Saleen414; 11-30-2017 at 10:16 PM.
Saleen414 is offline  
post #10 of 12 Old 12-01-2017, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
bamabox's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Hartford, CT
Posts: 676
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
My friend has done it in his race car with no problems. Also Fast XFI, electric water pump, electric fan, digital dash/datalogger, ignition system (MSD digital 7) Tach, trans brake, line lock ect. I will admit that he tows up to the lanes and tows back to the pits, but he can go 2 rounds before recharging the battery. With that result, I felt confident that I could do something similar. Using one of these batteries....GO Lithium Intelligent Power Racing Battery/Charger Package

I have removed 17 lbs of alternator/cables and 28 lbs of battery just from this conversion alone.

edit: BTW, I have used a Kenne Bell boost-a-pump at 20 volts on various items with no issues, mostly the I/C pump. It works fantastic.
You staying stock location with that battery or trunk? Man, those things are pricey. Wonder if you did put it in the trunk if it would have to still conform to all the NHRA rules ie, battery box, shutoff etc.


99 coupe. C4/8Ē 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
bamabox is offline  
post #11 of 12 Old 12-01-2017, 08:31 AM
Corral Elite Member
 
Saleen414's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Levant, Maine
Posts: 2,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamabox View Post
You staying stock location with that battery or trunk? Man, those things are pricey. Wonder if you did put it in the trunk if it would have to still conform to all the NHRA rules ie, battery box, shutoff etc.
Battery is in the back. Will use the existing cut off switch. Will use the existing battery box. All of that stuff was already in the car, so no point in not using it. I know that battery is spendy, but it only weighs 8 lbs!. The Optima battery I was using was 36 lbs. Other full size 16 volt battteries, while cheaper ($350) are 48 lbs. Like this example.

D1600 - 16V AGM Battery

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
Saleen414 is offline  
post #12 of 12 Old 03-27-2018, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
CrucialProspect's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 915
Mine is 2v but I actually did run just the alt for one season, couldn’t justify the “what if’s.” I had a idler on the water pump and snugged it down with no tensioner. Our alternator mounts between the heads and they slide down on a slotted mount, I was able to loosen the bolts and pull up on the alt to tension. Only lasted 1 season, and went through 2 or 3 belts, all in all, it’s doable, but those belts aren’t made to hold up to that style tensioning.
CrucialProspect is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Belt Routing Issues nathan67stang 94/95 Tech 7 05-24-2015 07:21 AM
Hypothetical high MPG super light Mustang build smokingtz Green-Rodding 63 03-29-2014 12:40 AM
Routing belt - no a/c or power steering lazylifter GT & SOHC 2 02-24-2014 01:46 PM
right belt and routing for a paxton sn89 cs3027 Superchargers 6 04-28-2013 10:03 AM
351W Belt Routing Question. Pic Inside lakecityg 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 14 06-30-2011 06:11 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome