Looking to swap to a C4 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-10-2017, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Looking to swap to a C4

I have finally had enough with the top loader, I cant quite get it to work right so I am going to just do what everyone has told me to do from the get go and put an automatic in the car...

Heres the set up..
67 Mustang
393w
Solid Flat Tappet
Brodix track1
10.5-11 CR
4.56rear gear
29.5" tire (Stick Tire)
The car ran 6.6-6.7 @100 1/8 10.4-10.5 @ 129

These are numbers from the previous owner (I have the slips).
Not sure what he was crossing the line @ RPM wise, but I have spun the motor to 7000 a few times and thats about all it has.

I am looking at C4 transmissions because of budget restraints ($2500-$3000)

Do any of you think I will run into any issues if I go with a C4 with this Combo?

Any recomendations are appreciated.

Thank you.

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post #2 of 17 Old 07-11-2017, 03:09 PM
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Nope, c4 will be just fine.

http://www.dynamicracetrans.com/c-4-c-3_9.html

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post #3 of 17 Old 07-13-2017, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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What headaches or issues do I get to look forward to with this swap?


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post #4 of 17 Old 07-18-2017, 12:26 AM
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I used the trans above as well, the key is to get the right converter for your combo so the car 60ft well while still being efficient, they can help you with converter selection too, but I'd say you will end up with somthing around 5200 stall.

In terms of hardware, shifter, flex plate and bolts, trans cooler, lines, trans temp gauge, dip stick, trans brake switch, driveshaft or yoke change, crossmember or fabricate existing one to name a few things
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-18-2017, 12:23 PM
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real important flexplate MUST be compatible with how your engine is balanced. Longtube headers might have some clearance issues, minitorque starter worked the best for me, t5 FMS-aluminum driveshaft swapped right over. best of luck
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-08-2017, 10:43 PM
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I used the trans above as well, the key is to get the right converter for your combo so the car 60ft well while still being efficient, they can help you with converter selection too, but I'd say you will end up with somthing around 5200 stall.

In terms of hardware, shifter, flex plate and bolts, trans cooler, lines, trans temp gauge, dip stick, trans brake switch, driveshaft or yoke change, crossmember or fabricate existing one to name a few things

That sort of reads "Been there, done that" Tached93gt.

Does anyone have an opinion / real experience with Hugh Performance Transmissions? They are sort of local being in Arizona and one of the Hughs brothers runs our local drag strip in Tucson. I need to pick up a new transmission for my Junkstang project and have been thinking about going towards them for help. Car will spend most of its life as a track toy, but also plan to put a few hundred miles on it each year.

Similar motor - 347 Dart Block, TFS heads - Dyno'd at 540hp at 7200 RPM. Just need a transmission and Axle package. Don't believe the 7.5 inch axle in my car will last very long with the big motor.

Thanks
Matt
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-08-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmullen View Post
That sort of reads "Been there, done that" Tached93gt.

Does anyone have an opinion / real experience with Hugh Performance Transmissions? They are sort of local being in Arizona and one of the Hughs brothers runs our local drag strip in Tucson. I need to pick up a new transmission for my Junkstang project and have been thinking about going towards them for help. Car will spend most of its life as a track toy, but also plan to put a few hundred miles on it each year.

Similar motor - 347 Dart Block, TFS heads - Dyno'd at 540hp at 7200 RPM. Just need a transmission and Axle package. Don't believe the 7.5 inch axle in my car will last very long with the big motor.

Thanks
Matt

Many of the locals use Hughes transmissions; none of which are Ford transmissions. 99% are powerglides, a couple TH400's in the mix too. They seem to like them. One racer needed his freshened up and checked after a converter failure, and he chose me to do it. I got it apart and honestly didn't see anything that stood out as different than any of my own garage built PG's other than their own valve body, which appeard to be nearly identical to the TCI version other than the separator plate and the solenoid was a 2-wire and not a 1-wire. I cannot say whether someone else had been into it previously-owner bought the car with the transmission secondhand. The converter was definitely a Hughes; worked really well in his particular car. Obviously it may be different in someone elses setup. In all honesty, I prefer to support the local guys as much as possible, which may be advantageous in your case since they're local to you. Might save you a little money; and from what I've seen, their stuff works really well; but again I have zero experience with their Ford transmissions. Most of those (C4's) are done locally from several different builders. I did, however, work with an A-1 built C4 a few years back and it was a nice build, fully rollerized, extra clutches, nice looking piece for sure.

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post #8 of 17 Old 08-26-2017, 03:05 PM
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You will have little trouble swapping over. Make sure to use the equivalent size bell housing or smaller for the C4 so you don't run into header issues. I did this on my 1969, swapped over from a Tremec 5 speed to a C4, and eventually a 4r70w. Very satisfied. The C4 is a better choice if the car is strictly race only or limited street use. Make sure to use the largest transmission cooler you can find. I bought mine at Oreillys and it works really well.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-29-2017, 06:37 PM
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Was talking to a guy beside me in the staging lanes last Saturday, so what I'm telling you would be hearsay in a court of law, but the guy seemed genuine, and had a 393 stroker 351 in a Fox body, so close to you. He had 13.5:1 motor, Vic Jr. heads he worked, Vic intake and a Demon 850 paired up with a C4 from Dynamic with a trans brake and a 5000 stall converter. Car ran 9.9-10.1 depending on adjusted altitude. Think he said 2850 race weight. But the bottom line is he said his Dynamic C4 ran for 5 years without being touched, he sent it in to be freshened up and it needed very little. For what it's worth.

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post #10 of 17 Old 11-02-2017, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by raceallday2 View Post
You will have little trouble swapping over. Make sure to use the equivalent size bell housing or smaller for the C4 so you don't run into header issues. I did this on my 1969, swapped over from a Tremec 5 speed to a C4, and eventually a 4r70w. Very satisfied. The C4 is a better choice if the car is strictly race only or limited street use. Make sure to use the largest transmission cooler you can find. I bought mine at Oreillys and it works really well.
IF this is a race car, strictly track only. There's no real need to mess with a trans cooler.


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post #11 of 17 Old 11-02-2017, 09:55 PM
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Even with the deeper aluminum pan that adds an extra quart, C4s don't have a lot of capacity. The fluid can heat up pretty quick, especially with an 8" converter. Mine would get 160-180 degrees with a cooler after a single pass on a race only car during a hot day. While 180 degrees is not too hot, I don't know how much higher it would have been without a cooler.

Might could get away without a cooler using straight hydraulic oil. Many people claim much lower temps using hydraulic oil.
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-03-2017, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by raceallday2 View Post
Even with the deeper aluminum pan that adds an extra quart, C4s don't have a lot of capacity. The fluid can heat up pretty quick, especially with an 8" converter. Mine would get 160-180 degrees with a cooler after a single pass on a race only car during a hot day. While 180 degrees is not too hot, I don't know how much higher it would have been without a cooler.

Might could get away without a cooler using straight hydraulic oil. Many people claim much lower temps using hydraulic oil.
It wouldn't.

how much time is the car actually running? (assuming you're not idling in the lanes) 2 min? how much tim between passes do you have? Even after driving back to your pit? An hour? That's plenty of time to cool off.

Also, How much air is REALLY going over the cooler while you're making a pass to "keep it cool" I'd say not much.. Plus, as any car progresses, the actual time at full throttle decresses, meaning, less heat build up.. AND on lower HP car's they're not really generating a whole lot of heat in the first place.

Do what you feel most comfortable with... I don't care. All I'm saying is a N/A or nitrous RACE car doesn't need a cooler.

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post #13 of 17 Old 11-03-2017, 08:06 AM
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Was talking to a guy beside me in the staging lanes last Saturday, so what I'm telling you would be hearsay in a court of law, but the guy seemed genuine, and had a 393 stroker 351 in a Fox body, so close to you. He had 13.5:1 motor, Vic Jr. heads he worked, Vic intake and a Demon 850 paired up with a C4 from Dynamic with a trans brake and a 5000 stall converter. Car ran 9.9-10.1 depending on adjusted altitude. Think he said 2850 race weight. But the bottom line is he said his Dynamic C4 ran for 5 years without being touched, he sent it in to be freshened up and it needed very little. For what it's worth.
In my experience it's RPM that kills C-4's

Many years ago, I had a pretty radical 347/nos combo.. 2005-6"ish" time frame here.. I had had a Dynamic Mighty Mite C-4 with all the bells a whistles done to it (including a cooler raceallday. lol) and once I really started spraying the motor.. I was only getting roughly 8-10 passes out of it before is was flaring BAD on the 2-3 shift. I was shifting the car at 8K and that trans didn't like that a whole lot.. race weight was roughly 3100, 10.5" slick car ran low 9's @ mid 140's On one occasion, I got 4 passes out of it right after getting it back.. I shifted into third.. and *SNAP* it flared so hard that when it caught, it broke the input shaft... That was it for me.. what to glide in that car after that.. and never had an issue again.

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post #14 of 17 Old 11-03-2017, 10:26 AM
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A C-4 will work good in the OP's application. Get into the mid 9's or quicker and then they are much more prone to break. Stick a trans cooler on it. It is not going to hurt. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Heat kills auto transmissions. You will have no idea how hot the fluid gets until you put a temp sender in the trans. The weight of the car and the converter will have a big influence on trans temps.

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post #15 of 17 Old 11-03-2017, 08:44 PM
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I know several people who don't use coolers and never had a problem. But, they were all larger transmissions (powerglides) that held 2-3 more quarts of fluid.

The thing that makes the C4 one of the most efficient automatics, it's small lightweight design (case, drums, friction plates) is also a draw back. About 7 quarts in the transmission with a deeper pan and 9" converter. It will be even less with an 8" converter. This small amount of fluid heats quickly. Like any oil, once transmission fluid gets hot it takes forever for it to cool back down, even if the car sits for an hour between passes. Especially in the miserable southern heat and humidity. On a cool dry day. Not near as much of a problem.

If you don't use a cooler I would definitely say use a high quality synthetic oil. Many of the high end converter and transmission companies recommend Amsoil 30 or 40w synthetic compressor oil.
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-07-2017, 08:18 AM
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I know several people who don't use coolers and never had a problem. But, they were all larger transmissions (powerglides) that held 2-3 more quarts of fluid.

The thing that makes the C4 one of the most efficient automatics, it's small lightweight design (case, drums, friction plates) is also a draw back. About 7 quarts in the transmission with a deeper pan and 9" converter. It will be even less with an 8" converter. This small amount of fluid heats quickly. Like any oil, once transmission fluid gets hot it takes forever for it to cool back down, even if the car sits for an hour between passes. Especially in the miserable southern heat and humidity. On a cool dry day. Not near as much of a problem.

If you don't use a cooler I would definitely say use a high quality synthetic oil. Many of the high end converter and transmission companies recommend Amsoil 30 or 40w synthetic compressor oil.
You do you my man, makes no nevermind to me.

I just speak to what I've seen and experienced.

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post #17 of 17 Old 11-06-2018, 12:49 AM
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I got mine built by broader performance it’s a nice piece

Great guy to deal with. Very honest no gimmicks. 800hp rated
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