Torque converter 9.5 to 8'' - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-31-2017, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Torque converter 9.5 to 8''

N/A build, footbraked C4 running a Dynamic racing converter 9.5'' that's rated around 3800 stall but I can upgrade it for $300 to around my desired 5k needs but was told it won't be as efficient as an 8'' converter. Need to get the best out of my combo at the track but still want to street drive it a little. If it's only going to make 2 tenth's or less gain-it's not worth the 800 bucks but if were talking half a second at the track then it's worth it to me-Anyone ?

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post #2 of 12 Old 03-31-2017, 10:24 PM
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It might help, or it might not.

Converters are a sort of black art, so to speak. Those who know them and know them well, charge a lot of money for their knowledge and experience. Then there's those who just throw one together and stick it on a shelf and call it a X stall speed...and you know nothing beyond that about them.

That said, it all depends on what you're working with. A small inch engine in a heavier car, yes, going to an 8" with an aggressive stator would probably help some, IF your current converter is too tight and the chassis, suspension, and tires will take some more "hit".

I know on mine, "everyone" said that the 9.5" 6100 stall spragless would be worthless. Sucker's won a LOT of races over the years! I tried an 8" sprag C stator 6100 and while it was faster, it was also inconsistent.

Would you be better off calling your converter guy and asking him what his opinion is? I'm just a keyboard jockey spewing some limited converter knowledge.


'92GT, 427" and '93 "LXVO" coupe
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post #3 of 12 Old 03-31-2017, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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It might help, or it might not.

Converters are a sort of black art, so to speak. Those who know them and know them well, charge a lot of money for their knowledge and experience. Then there's those who just throw one together and stick it on a shelf and call it a X stall speed...and you know nothing beyond that about them.

That said, it all depends on what you're working with. A small inch engine in a heavier car, yes, going to an 8" with an aggressive stator would probably help some, IF your current converter is too tight and the chassis, suspension, and tires will take some more "hit".

I know on mine, "everyone" said that the 9.5" 6100 stall spragless would be worthless. Sucker's won a LOT of races over the years! I tried an 8" sprag C stator 6100 and while it was faster, it was also inconsistent.

Would you be better off calling your converter guy and asking him what his opinion is? I'm just a keyboard jockey spewing some limited converter knowledge.
302 motor-light car, about 2800lbs, converter guy said maybe 2 tenth's difference upgrading to an 8''. He told me anything more than a 4500 and it's not going to be real streetable and run hot. Btw what was your Et diff between your 9.5-8'' ? Was yours street driven ?
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post #4 of 12 Old 04-01-2017, 08:08 PM
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If your converter guy told you that you need a new converter guy. A 8" has been in my car for 10,000 miles. The last version went 6300 and was driven on drag week never got over 180 and 6-7% slip. Lenny at UCC is the man to talk with
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post #5 of 12 Old 04-02-2017, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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If your converter guy told you that you need a new converter guy. A 8" has been in my car for 10,000 miles. The last version went 6300 and was driven on drag week never got over 180 and 6-7% slip. Lenny at UCC is the man to talk with
I talk to Lenny-probably the route i'm going to go-I've heard nothing but good about him, your car is a great example of his expertise btw
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post #6 of 12 Old 04-03-2017, 09:43 AM
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302 motor-light car, about 2800lbs, converter guy said maybe 2 tenth's difference upgrading to an 8''. He told me anything more than a 4500 and it's not going to be real streetable and run hot. Btw what was your Et diff between your 9.5-8'' ? Was yours street driven ?
I do not drive mine on the street. The days of having a streetable race car are over, at least for me. A few too many tow truck calls. And your converter guy isn't wrong. Once you start getting into loose converters, I mean really loose, streetability starts going away; and heat starts becoming an issue. But then again, how much can YOU put up with? Sure I can drive mine on the street, for about 1/2 mile, and then I'm ready to climb back out. When I was younger yes I drove it on the streets with 6100 stall speed. It can be done-if you can put up with it.

2800 lbs is not light, kind of the middle of the road. But you should benefit from an 8". Vane angle is up to the builder. Street driving, you'll want a sprag or mechanical diode for sure. Diodes are more expensive but they are stronger than a sprag. I don't know that you'll see .2, but it may be worth trying. If you don't like it, send it back and have it re-worked; as it's generally less costly than selling it. Used parts are typically 50% of new price.

Converter selection is going to be totally dependent on the data given to the converter builder. Your better off to have every ounce of data, and it's better if you have a dyno sheet if at all possible. And being that it's a street car, prepare yourself for a compromise between streetability and ET improvements at the track. This is exactly why I always say that there is a big difference between a race car and a street car.

And finally, a good converter is going to be $800+. Ain't no such thing as a good quality cheap converter anymore. Case in point, I built the trans for my car and put a Redneck converter in it. After 2 1/2 seasons, I was sold on it-for the money it worked great. One race day the car kept slowing down each round. 6.20, then 6.25, then 6.35, etc. By the time the finals rolled around I was at 6.90 and stall speed was up around 7000 (originally 5300). I was on a roll and wasn't about to quit racing. Took the win on a opponent redlight and idled down the track. Stopped at the trailer and pulled the trans dip stick. Completely full of metal. Had the converter cut open and there was nothing left of it inside, junk. But the worst part was that it also junked the entire transmission. Bushings galled, drums torn up, pump trashed, everything was junk even the case. So that $350 converter took out a $2000 transmission. Started over with the exact same trans but this time I hired a local guy to build the converter, spent about $900 on it and it's still in the car today. That was I think 12 years ago when I put it in. I had him cut it open 2 years ago for freshen up and all was fine. Billet cover, no sprag, good stuff.

The ET difference between the current 9.5" and the 8" I tried was about .05, all in the 60'. It hit harder-but also had a tendency to lift the front end more than I like. In other words on the bumper. The 9.5 is "slower" but more predictable-and for what I do, works a lot better.

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post #7 of 12 Old 04-03-2017, 11:33 AM
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Heat is not a issue. Lenny has done quite a few of these for drag week guys and none of them have issues.

My car is quiter and drives nicer than most 11 second cars. Driving on the street it does not need go be reved over 3500.

Mine will run back to back passes with .03 only time it changes is when I move things around.

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post #8 of 12 Old 04-04-2017, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Heat is not a issue. Lenny has done quite a few of these for drag week guys and none of them have issues.

My car is quiter and drives nicer than most 11 second cars. Driving on the street it does not need go be reved over 3500.

Mine will run back to back passes with .03 only time it changes is when I move things around.
Just curious what fluid and cooler do you run ? C4 trans ?
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post #9 of 12 Old 04-04-2017, 08:37 AM
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Parts store type f. Bar and plate b&m super coolers. 2 in series.

Tim

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post #10 of 12 Old 04-04-2017, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Parts store type f. Bar and plate b&m super coolers. 2 in series.

Tim
So you run 2 b&m coolers ?

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post #11 of 12 Old 04-09-2017, 10:25 PM
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Heat is not a issue. Lenny has done quite a few of these for drag week guys and none of them have issues.

My car is quiter and drives nicer than most 11 second cars. Driving on the street it does not need go be reved over 3500.

Mine will run back to back passes with .03 only time it changes is when I move things around.
I guess we differ in application. .03 diff from round to round will get you on the trailer quick with what I'm doing. I'm currently fighting inconsistency with mine, .008 round to round typically. I think I know the problem now though, will try again next week. I want to see less than .005. 1/8 mile.

'92GT, 427" and '93 "LXVO" coupe
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post #12 of 12 Old 05-14-2017, 09:56 PM
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I see a lot of converter discussions on the internet these days and I see some really ridiculous stuff being said. I usually just do a face palm and move on. I will be the first to say that ToddTurbo is SPOT on with every word he typed. I couldn't have said it any better. I've been doing converters for a pretty large company for almost 10 years. I've probably done 1000 SBF converters. They are a bit of a pain in the ass. There's a few combo's that work really good, and the rest is a total flop. If you're running a 245mm core (what you're calling a 9.5") than you need to loosen that thing up. They work the best when set at 4500. I sell them things like Milk at a dairy store. They are very streetable and work very well with a footbrake application because they ramp up on stall speed pretty quick. In fact, I could have built my 351/C4 combo car with any converter I wanted but I built a 9.5 4500 stall because i know they're dead predictable. I also want to spray a 100-150 to hit an index in the summer months so I didn't want to over stall the car. The 8" converter when DEAD ON will/should always be a faster converter. They weight 24-26lbs bolted to your crankshaft VS: the 32-35lbs a 245 might weigh. Not to mention by design you can achieve more stall speed and have it work efficiently (low slip numbers). On top of the smaller and lighter converter core, you also have many more stator options to play with. You can get fancy with the milling to make it hit harder, ramp fatser and stall higher (4500-6500+.) That being said, SBF motors are kinda tricky in that they are stubborn with low torque and stubborn tq curves.. Torque is what makes the converter stall. Without a transbrake you have to make a really short windowed stator or a heavily milled stator which usually result in it feeling like a slop box driving around town. Todd Turbo already made the valid points about being streetable so I don't need to go there. Make sure whatever you have has a sprag or Diode of some type. Don't run it Spragless if you have plans to drive on the street.
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