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post #1 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Travel Limters

My suspension moves about 4 inches from sitting to full extension. My car has controlled wheelies, the tires just get maybe six inches up no matter how hard I run it. The wheelies don't lift the tires off past half foot, but carry out a long way if I throw boost at it.

Do front end limiters help tune the suspension at high power? Is there a real good commercial type that is easy to adjust and reliable, or should I make one??

Right now I have maybe ten inches or so of total front lift, six from tire off the track and 4 inches from shock extension. Is it necessary to limit that?

I'm changing slicks because my tires are pretty old, but I wonder about the travel. If reducing travel will help handling.

Thanks, Tom



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post #2 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 09:26 AM
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I use limiters to tune the rate of weight transfer. If the nose wants to rise too quickly, and since my single adjustable front struts do not have near the valving that a real good double adjustable strut does, I can use the limiter to slow that rise down as the car has to pick up the full weight of the front end sooner. I had my limiters made by a good friend of mine in his shop. pretty simple to do. The upper part has 3 holes in it. The top hole is basically full suspension travel and then additional holes 1" apart to tie the front end down an additional 1 or 2 inches.




1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!

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post #3 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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I use limiters to tune the rate of weight transfer. If the nose wants to rise too quickly, and since my single adjustable front struts do not have near the valving that a real good double adjustable strut does, I can use the limiter to slow that rise down as the car has to pick up the full weight of the front end sooner. I had my limiters made by a good friend of mine in his shop. pretty simple to do. The upper part has 3 holes in it. The top hole is basically full suspension travel and then additional holes 1" apart to tie the front end down an additional 1 or 2 inches.

Thanks! I lost my first heads up race ever out of maybe 25-50. LOL
I was ahead a good bit but when my boost went after 2nd gear high I couldn't steer. The car just drifted left and got out of the groove. It's hard for me to exactly figure out what happened since I drive without thinking, but I'm pretty sure it did not respond properly on steering. I'm trying to put this together in my head and figure it out.

I found a definite issue when the car is lightly on the front tires. My toe in somehow was slightly out, not bad but toe out at rest. As I jacked the front, it went way out further on toe out. When the tires are just leaving or barely on the ground (4 inches shock travel) is it possible the toe out makes steering unpredictable?

I fixed that yesterday by making spacers to space the tie rod ends down. I had to move down so the tie ends are 2.25 inches below the arm on the spindles. Now it stays the same toe, within a fraction of a degree, and I set it for zero toe to very slight (.5 deg in) so either tire is aiming straight ahead or very slightly toed in.

My friend watching the car suggested it was trying to lift the front end when the boost went full. He said at about half track when the front came up I drifted left out of the groove.

He suggested limiters to prevent the front from lifting down track. I don't care what it takes, I have to figure this out so I can stay in the groove at high power and high speed. I corrected the toe in issues. I'm going to buy new tires Tuesday (mine are 15 months or so old) because my rear tire surfaces look like they are rolling over like little miniwaves of pin size rolled rubber.

Do you think the limiters would help hold it down after the 200-300 ft point or I should look at anything else?

Another thing odd is I have to run 13-14 psi air in my 28-10.50's . Less than that and the car is all over the place at the start. The sixtys have been high 1.1's when I leave on 13 pounds of tire pressure. They get worse with less air. He suggesting leaving softer, but more air made it straight off the line. My sixty slowed at 11 psi air and the car went left or right inconsistently. I didn't get one clean pass out of four.

I just never have worked with small tires and this power so I am totally lost and don't want to make a mistake that causes a wreck.


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post #4 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 11:00 AM
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I had my front suspension aligned with the nose high to simulate the cars attitude going down track. It steers very straight. The following video shows the front end up all the way down track.

http://vid296.photobucket.com/albums...psx19z16bf.mp4

You will notice I did not have the rear hatch latched and it bounced up a couple of times.
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1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #5 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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So you see no negatives to making a set of limiters? How much is too much travel? Is there any other way to do it without home made limiters?


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post #6 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 11:39 AM
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Sure, buy some really expensive front struts that are valved to control front end travel. Only $750-1K a piece. If the car is getting the power to the ground without spinning the rear tires down track, then getting the front end down would be a benefit not only for steering, but aerodynamically as well. I knew my rear tires were shot when they went up in tire smoke on the 1-2 shift at 200 or so feet out.
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1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #7 of 20 Old 07-04-2016, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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I aligned the front end and made spacers to get the bump steer right. That issue is fixed and the front end is aligned for 0.5 deg toe in (total both wheels) and it goes to 0 degrees at full shock extension. Those are the only two height positions I checked.

I looked at my tires real close and they are rolling the surface up in like little pins or micro sized waves. They are 15-16 months old, so I think the rubber is coming apart.

I'll get new tires tomorrow. Is something better than a MT 28-10.50? I can fit a 28-10.50 comfortably, but not much spare room.

I made and installed a limiter using a chain and some other stuff. I used 1000- 1300 lb rated parts, so I hope that is enough. All it has to do is lift the tires and handle the spring pressure, so I hope it stays below 500-600 lbs of load on the parts.


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post #8 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 08:38 AM
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the ones we run are a chain to an eyelet bolt in the strut tower down to the control arm. we run a nut top and bottom on the strut tower to adjust how much travel we have
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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the ones we run are a chain to an eyelet bolt in the strut tower down to the control arm. we run a nut top and bottom on the strut tower to adjust how much travel we have
I looked at that location and thought a while about how I would make a hex head adjuster out of a LONG threaded bolt going down through the shock tower.

I couldn't figure out a simple way to keep the threaded female inside the shock tower from spinning when I would adjust the bolt, so I decided to use a quick release pin along with a spacer half the size of the link change. This gives me 1/2 inch steps if I use the spacer but that requires removing a nut. I have 1 inch steps just removing a quick release pin and moving the chain one link.

How much pressure do you think this would ever see? Do you think it would ever exceed 500 lbs? I would fully trust 500 in my setup, but start to question 1000 lbs load on a side. I think the weak point is the sway bar link tab welded on the Team-Z A arms. I'm using it as the connect point. That's just a feeling based on metal leverages, mounting methods, and part sizes.

I welded a 3/16 plate 3 inches square to my frame rail and it has a 3/16 inch thick 1.5 inch square tube welded to it. I would rather have had channel to weld to the frame, but only had plate. I think it is rigid enough though as is. It is mostly in sheer pulling down, and it is on the side of the frame. I think it would have to rip the frame to fail.


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post #10 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 10:18 AM
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It is not like it is supporting the weight of the car, it is supporting the weight of the front suspension and whatever load the spring has on the strut at that ride height. I doubt it is even close to 500lbs.

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1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 11:03 AM
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also... from what i remember you are pretty limited on prep down there.

strapping your front end down might hurt you. i know when we went to the 8.2 shoot out last year the only way we got close to going down that dirt road they called track prep was to unhook the limiters

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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It is not like it is supporting the weight of the car, it is supporting the weight of the front suspension and whatever load the spring has on the strut at that ride height. I doubt it is even close to 500lbs.
What puzzles me is how that keeps the front end down safely. This is not for off the line, my car is real good there, this is for down track at high speed.

I looked at my rear tires some more, and they are definitely shot. The rubber is rolling over or all torn like it has thousands of cross wise miniature tears. I guess it is ripping the rubber surface? I've never run 10 inch wide tires with this much power and weight.

The track prep does suck at times. At night the humidity makes the track sweat, and during the daytime it can get over 150F on the surface. Plus many of them have rough surfaces. Making it worse they added a new element...they are starting to race 4WD diesel trucks that have hard knobby truck tires and spit out diesel fuel.


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post #13 of 20 Old 07-05-2016, 02:31 PM
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Take away about 6-8 psi of boost and your down track problems probably go away...
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1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-06-2016, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Take away about 6-8 psi of boost and your down track problems probably go away...
LOL I need more power, not less.


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post #15 of 20 Old 07-06-2016, 12:47 PM
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shut the gate at .8 into the run and start throwing timing at her down low she'll wake up
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-07-2016, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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I have a bigger engine and turbo. I'm running the small stuff now.


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post #17 of 20 Old 07-08-2016, 03:06 PM
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I have a bigger engine and turbo. I'm running the small stuff now.
the turbo will make more difference than the bigger engine.
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-08-2016, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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the turbo will make more difference than the bigger engine.
But a 434 with Callies crank and Oliver rods and TEA 250 heads will spool a bigger turbo faster and should last longer than what I have now.

(BTW I just picked up some Hoosier tires and will have the new MT's 3055S Tuesday. I am going to mount both on rims so I can swap tires back and forth and see which one works better under various track conditions.)


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post #19 of 20 Old 07-11-2016, 08:11 AM
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But a 434 with Callies crank and Oliver rods and TEA 250 heads will spool a bigger turbo faster and should last longer than what I have now.

(BTW I just picked up some Hoosier tires and will have the new MT's 3055S Tuesday. I am going to mount both on rims so I can swap tires back and forth and see which one works better under various track conditions.)
stronger for sure the windsors can take a beating a lot better than an 8.2 deck thats for sure.

im curious to see about those new mickeys vs the hoosiers

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post #20 of 20 Old 07-11-2016, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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im curious to see about those new mickeys vs the hoosiers
I do not have the MT's yet. The Hoosiers worked. After 4-5 passes to break them in, I ran my best 60 ever by far. Well into 1.1's where my old best was 1.2's.

The Hoosiers are stiffer sidewall than the MT stiff walls. The Hoosier do not distort when the rear suspension separates and pushes the tires into the track. The Hoosiers allowed me to lower tire pressure to 12 psi without wadding. With lower pressure, I could hit it with 20 psi boost off the brake instead of the normal 12-15 psi and ramping up to 26psi in high. The tires did not wad up at all, and they were perfectly straight and stable at high speeds. I really think I can bring the tire pressure down more for a crummy track.


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