NHRA Pro Stock fuel injected and computerized. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 02-11-2016, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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NHRA Pro Stock fuel injected and computerized.

This weekend at Pomona in the opener. Pretty pumped to see how this class will adapt to the new rules. They are evidently all using the same Holley module and all must use the same intake supplied by K&N. But the programming is all up for grabs. Get your best geek. Going to be very interesting to see the et's and mph vs the carb cars of the past. And of course, all the top teams who had the best handle on the carb cars are now at square one like everybody else.


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Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
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post #2 of 18 Old 02-11-2016, 06:15 PM
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Warren Johnson had a write up in national dragster 20 years ago about how the prostock field would benefit from fuel inj.

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post #3 of 18 Old 02-11-2016, 06:18 PM
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I'm all for it myself. To bad Ford dump out of the competition last year. One of the home towners, Larry Morgan, would have looked real good in a flat hooded Mustang.
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post #4 of 18 Old 02-11-2016, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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I guess you can transpose some of your knowledge from carbs, a/f ratios and timing into the tuners world on a computer, but it's going to be very interesting. I wouldn't want to bet against the Erica Enders/Jeg Coughlin team but this whole FI change could bring somebody in out of nowhere if they are a next level tuner.

99 coupe. C4/8” 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
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post #5 of 18 Old 02-11-2016, 09:03 PM
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I cant wait for it to start. I think this is going to take the Pro Stock class to a whole nother level. I think they are going to come out with guns blazing.
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post #6 of 18 Old 02-12-2016, 12:16 AM
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They are down about 65hp, and are pretty much all in the 6.60's in testing.

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post #7 of 18 Old 02-12-2016, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DookieBomb View Post
They are down about 65hp, and are pretty much all in the 6.60's in testing.
I guess I'm a little shocked. Be interesting to see where they are by the end of the first season.

Wouldn't rule out a little sandbagging as well.

99 coupe. C4/8” 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
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post #8 of 18 Old 02-13-2016, 01:37 PM
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I thought Gray went .50's in FL. The rpm limit is going to slow them down more than the efi. Charlie Wescott Jr is working on his Ford I hope to see him out test local in April.

Tim
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post #9 of 18 Old 02-14-2016, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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I thought Gray went .50's in FL. The rpm limit is going to slow them down more than the efi. Charlie Wescott Jr is working on his Ford I hope to see him out test local in April.

Tim
Yeah, I wonder what the thinking was by NHRA to set an rpm limit. Try to keep the cost down on engines ? Can't really think of any other reason. I never really knew much about the carb pro stock engines until I started reading up on the new FI rules. They really were marvels of engineering, lots of secrets, lots of tricks to make an extra 5hp which could win you a race it was so competitive. Making 1200 hp NA out of 500 cu in was no laughing matter. Spinning a big block to 12000+ and 15:1 compression was just entry level. Crazy stuff.

99 coupe. C4/8” 5000 stall w/2003 Mach crate motor FRPP stock N/A, Kooks LT's and X,dumps no muffs. 4.56's
Best ET 11.42 Best MPH 116.33Best 60" 1.49
Coincidence. A convenient and overused word for the mentally lazy.
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post #10 of 18 Old 02-14-2016, 07:46 PM
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They really were marvels of engineering, lots of secrets, lots of tricks to make an extra 5hp which could win you a race it was so competitive.

The engine program is top notch stuff, similar to F1 stuff but no "quite" as "exotic". 7 cam bearings are the norm, and that's just a very small example of what they're doing to try to keep them together and reduce camshaft deflection at the RPM and pressures that they run at. Electro-magnetic suspension systems. Ultra expensive gearboxes. Mr. Warren Johnson and I spoke for a little while at an event late in the 2014 season; and at that time the writing was already on the wall. Without the money of sponsors, even his pocketbook couldn't support the costs of competing.

I've traveled a lot chasing the dream, and the travel expenses alone are out of most people's budget-including mine. For instance, the NHRA schedule was so screwed up that they could go from one end of the country to the opposite, then the next week halfway back across again. Stupid!

So how much does it cost? Most teams use a rental program for their 1450hp engines, at $50,000 per race, or 1.2M per season. Probably more now, that was a few years ago. That don't count any of the tuning, paying your guys, the trucks to haul them, insurance, taxes, chassis, driveline, suspension (shocks are in the $12,000 each range), just to name a couple costs. Now people said EFI was going to add cost, and intially it does, BUT I don't believe that it's any more than buying a set of 4 trick carburetors. Maybe cheaper. But NHRA stepped in beyond EFI and said hey, we need to make these cars "more like the ones that people see on the car lot". So they got rid of the big scoops, shortened the wheelie bars, etc. That's all fine and dandy, but honestly it didn't change the fact that no matter how many rules you put on them, the class (and all other heads up racing classes) will always end up being "he who spend the most, usually win the most".

And this is why I got out of that business and went into grassroots bracket racing at a local level. I can compete in my daily driver, the tow rig, the scooter, the 4 wheeler, or the race car. It's a driver's race. The driver has a million ways to lose a bracket race, and most commonly it's the driver that wins or loses, not so much the vehicle he or she is driving. It is a mental challenge to say the least.


IMO, the NHRA has almost forgotten about the sportsman drag racer. If you're running in one of the pro classes, they like you (for the most part) but if you're running 9.90 or even brackets, you're just a thorn in their backside. Another reason to support your LOCAL drag racing program. Now I realize that not everyone is the same and that some have a tendency to be too good to run small time stuff, or their goals are set higher, and that is respectable nonetheless. I've been down those roads and it's just not for me.

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post #11 of 18 Old 02-14-2016, 07:55 PM
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This is why I cant wait to see how Westcott does. If him and his dad can go out this year and go some rounds it will be a success.
He is not spending 10% of what the other guys are.

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post #12 of 18 Old 02-15-2016, 10:29 AM
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Ok I was way off base. Very well put junkyard!
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-16-2016, 06:10 PM
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I think it is bad business to limit the fuel inj. to holley only. Nhra put a halt to all R&D on the throttle body, INJ. The inj. has to be mounted externally and 8 of the. I would think they would pick up some power using 1 to 2 more injectors to cool the intake air charge.

There use to be a reason when Glidden wrecked, he tore his jacket off and covered his intake. So if the nhra is going to limit the use of brands why not use the sealed crate engines. I like the FI but not the way nhra and nascar wrote the rules.
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post #14 of 18 Old 02-16-2016, 09:08 PM
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It might be bad business in OUR eyes, but what if you are the NHRA, and the teams involved? Could it be that Holley is "in bed" with them? We have to keep in mind the reasoning behind this. Actually it's multi-faceted. One major reason behind EFI (as well as the "shorter" hood scoops and shorter wheelie bars) was to make the "stock" cars more "stock" appearing (they all look identical to my old eyes). The other reason was cost, or the reduction of costs. Seems like a step backwards if you think about it on the surface, but look deeper. If everyone already has a carbureter style intake manifold and cylinder head, then would it not make sense to just drop on the Holley style EFI and go race, at least from a cost standpoint? As a former racer, car owner, crew chief, etc....if they're going to mandate EFI then the best option is to use a bolt-on style setup that basically replaces the carburetor. This keeps cost down, at first. Until the teams start spending ways to get around the new rules.

Absolutely, if that's all they wanted was more horsepower and faster ET's and MPH, they could easily achieve it. But that was not the purpose of the big switch. Same with CRASHCAR.

PS has a lot of challenges ahead and we're seeing just the start of it with EFI and the hood and the wheelie bars, among other things. Bottom line is something's going to have to change in order for the class to survive. Costs are going to have to decrease for sure, or the class is doomed! It's already reserved for the racers who invested millions. I don't have millions. I tried to do the best with what I had and got out spent and out classed; and that is the case for a lot of racers. I have met drivers who could out-drive most of the current PS drivers but they didn't have a pretty face and great attitude on camera that made TV viewers all warm and fuzzy inside, and the sponsors also didn't like it. But they could drive like no tomorrow. MONEY, is what is killing the sport in general. They're going to have to control the costs or the sponsor money will dry up. No sponsors=no racing; unless you have someone like Al-Anabi who has a seemingly endless cashflow (and I think their cow has even begun to dry up).
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post #15 of 18 Old 02-16-2016, 09:38 PM
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I agree to a point and not trying to start an argument. Sure they want publicity, pretty faces and good personalities for the public eye to see. The cost of efi and good carbs are the same according to Warren Johnson at 7k. I agree on the stock look. But it's still not like the past where the cars that won on Sunday sold on Monday.


The racers all have sponsors that pay pretty much all the bill. The race winnings don't cover the parts and contingency money is poor at best. If you rent a motor your at the mercy of him and the person who pays more to win.


Too bad there are no engine builders/racers like Warren Johnson, Bob Glidden to name a few that. Maybe allan Johnson and V Gains now.
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post #16 of 18 Old 02-19-2016, 12:10 AM
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Too bad there are no engine builders/racers like Warren Johnson, Bob Glidden to name a few that. Maybe allan Johnson and V Gains now.
Agreed 100%

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post #17 of 18 Old 02-20-2016, 10:47 AM
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Pro stock will be faster once they get the engines tuned up...look how much they picked up thus far...they are only slower by .06 and 4mph ...

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post #18 of 18 Old 02-20-2016, 07:14 PM
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And there you go, just for starters. A few people might have forgot they are drag racers.
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