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post #1 of 29 Old 01-22-2012, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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trubo or supercharger

I have a 347 stick car . I am looking to put a power adder on my car this year. The
trubo kit I'm looking at is on 3 kit or or the vortech v-3 . What would you guys
buy and why.

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post #2 of 29 Old 01-22-2012, 08:13 AM
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Well I'll give it a shot, I have owned both and it went like this for me. The Vortech is a great add on and will give you a great boost in power for the money and its relative ease of install ( i have never had any issues with vortech ) Pretty easy to make 450/500RWHP with a 347 and 10lbs of boost. A on3 Turbo kit will give will give you much broader power and torque band its more involved when it comes to the install. I did have some fitment issues with the kit which I kinda expected to run into and some cracking weld probems that I had rewelded. I opted for the 67mm precesion turbo with the on3 and on a 306 basic engine (trickflow heads & stage one cam, cobra intake,65mm t body) at 10lb boost it made 450rwhp 498fpt, hard to complain about those results, FYI turned boost up to 16PSI and it made 598rwhp and 697fpt Pretty unreal but I did hurt the motor.

How much you want to spend and how much time, are you handy with working on your car. I perfer the vortech for simplicity and power gains. The turbo kit is not hard to install but does require more patience and time and possible modifications to make work but its will reward you with better power gains.


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post #3 of 29 Old 01-22-2012, 11:05 PM
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can you go for a ride in someone's turbo and vortech car

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post #4 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 02:19 AM
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How much $$ do you have to spend?
What are the specs of your motor? Stock block or aftermarket?
How much power do you want to make?
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 11:33 AM
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I've had both with a stick. My Vortech YS trim made 720 rwhp at 18lbs. The same motor with a 76mm turbo made 818 at 18lbs. Even with the power gain, I did not like the turbo AT ALL! Heres why:

It didn't sound as good as the blower
The blower put more power to the ground on radials with the stick (linear power)
The turbo was constantly burning stuff and chased exhaust leaks on and off

For a street/strip car with a stick, there was nothing I liked more about the turbo than the blower.

My favorite combination of all those I have had is a blower car with a stick making 550-650 rwhp that runs really well on a drag radial and pump gas.

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq

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post #6 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 12:04 PM
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^^^^

i went from a novi2000 setup to a turbo and will never look back. the sound isn't as nasty as a blower car with longtubes and a nice cam HOWEVER my car makes low 700s to the tires and sounds like a bolton 302 car, maybe little deeper, which i love as cops don't f**k with me like they did with the novi days, and noone has a clue of what's about to him them. the other major benefit is that with an ebc i can change my hp with a simple flip of a switch. and am also setting up boost by gear.

i'm not burning stuff and have had no exhaust leaks (arp studs on the headers and rest is all v bands). everything is ceramic coated, in and out, and also wrapped. although i will admit that driving a turbo stick car is more difficult as the mid range tq and up is just retarded and not as linear as a blower car.

"The blower put more power to the ground on radials with the stick (linear power)"... do you have any dyno graphs as i find this little hard to belive or maybe not reading it right.

my novi2000 at 11# made 550/500 to the tires and a turbo made 550/550 at 10# and a very conservative tune. the first time i drove the turbo setup i couldn't belive how much faster the car felt on the street at the same 550hp level although when comparing dyno graphs it was rather clear as the turbo had nearly 200 more rwtq in the midrange. yes, that's not a typo. midrange tq on turbos is retarded.

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post #7 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 12:34 PM
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PK, I do think you read it wrong. Dyno graphs have little relevance when it comes to putting power to the ground on radials on the street or track. I agree that my turbo setup made rediculous power and torque with the stick...MUCH more than the blower, which is the problem in a street car on radials. What I meant was that with a stick on radials, the blower car had quicker ETs

BTW, turned all the way up, that car made 977rwhp and 1022 torque at 31lbs....and I still hated it.

It sure did FEEL fast with all that torque but track times is where its at IMHO when it comes to whether or not a car really IS fast. On a radial tire with the 5 speed, my blower setup had much better ETs.

If the OP is looking for big dyno numbers to talk about or just drives the car around and/or roll races, the turbo with the stick will be fine.

For me, I want quick ETs on radials with the 5 speed and the blower seemed to work much better for my combo and intended purpose.

It all depends what you want to do with the car...different people have different needs/wants.

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 12:51 PM
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thanks for clearing it up and not turning it into some bs drama like many do on here

let me think about the turbo vs blower stick cars and the track and get back to you... gotta do some work

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post #9 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 01:05 PM
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NP. Please keep me posted how you do either here in this thread or by PM. I really worked hard on the turbo, 5 speed, radial thing with not much luck.

A buddy of mine somewhat replicated my combo and I tried to warn him that it was going to be TOUGH to reach his goals with the 5 speed on radials. He tried and tried and tried but was ultimately disappointed with his times (in the 10s). He swapped to an AOD and instantly went 9.60s. You may know the car...it was a magazine car called "The COUPRI".

While not easy at all, I am sure it is possible to go really quick with a 5 speed on drag radials with the turbo. I'm not one of those people that think that just because I couldn't do something means that it can't be done LOL. I truly wish you well with the combo...keep me posted.

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq

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post #10 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88lxhatch View Post
NP. Please keep me posted how you do either here in this thread or by PM. I really worked hard on the turbo, 5 speed, radial thing with not much luck.

A buddy of mine somewhat replicated my combo and I tried to warn him that it was going to be TOUGH to reach his goals with the 5 speed on radials. He tried and tried and tried but was ultimately disappointed with his times (in the 10s). He swapped to an AOD and instantly went 9.60s. You may know the car...it was a magazine car called "The COUPRI".

While not easy at all, I am sure it is possible to go really quick with a 5 speed on drag radials with the turbo. I'm not one of those people that think that just because I couldn't do something means that it can't be done LOL. I truly wish you well with the combo...keep me posted.
pretty much dead on right there. turbo stick cars are harder to get dialed in to run an ET than an SC car.


12.7s motor, 11.7s spray, turbo 400/460. [email protected]
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 02:13 PM
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Please keep me posted how you do either here in this thread or by PM. I really worked hard on the turbo, 5 speed, radial thing with not much luck.
OP

do you want us to continue this here?

don't wanna jack your thread

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post #12 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 03:13 PM
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for a stick car..supercharger all the way, you lose a lot with a turbo between shifts
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 03:14 PM
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pretty much dead on right there. turbo stick cars are harder to get dialed in to run an ET than an SC car.
not true.
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-23-2012, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I have a stock block on 26" slicks and looking to go 10.00 on the strip. I partipate in an index racing class and looking for consicent 10.00 without hurting too many parts.


You can contiune you debate on the turbo vs. blower on this thread. It is interesting to read the comparsions and should help in my decission.
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-24-2012, 09:35 AM
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Is there a minimum weight in your class?
What kind of stock block? E7?
Is nitrous an option in your class and would you consider?
Tell us more about the motor...what HCI what power does it make or track times?

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq

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post #16 of 29 Old 01-24-2012, 01:39 PM
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not true.
I probably worded what I said wrong.
an auto is more efficient for a turbo car.

12.7s motor, 11.7s spray, turbo 400/460. [email protected]
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-24-2012, 08:20 PM
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i'm kind of in this debate as well. Im collecting parts for a low compression (9-9.5:1) 408 for a street car with a t-56.

keep the debate going!
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-24-2012, 09:17 PM
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Well, I have a stock block on 26" slicks and looking to go 10.00 on the strip. I partipate in an index racing class and looking for consicent 10.00 without hurting too many parts.
better save your money for an aftermarket block. sticks are especially rough on blocks. and plan on breaking s**t as it comes with going fast like it or not. sucks but you gotta pay if you wanna play. playa!

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-24-2012, 09:22 PM
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88lxhatch>>>

if we're talking drag radials than you're 100% right as far as track goes as i've never had good luck with drag radials at track with a stick. be it na, novi or turbo. on the street it's lot different for me as my car hooks pretty good, even running NT05Rs on 18s. second gear will fight it but third and on is gone and retarded (nothing pulls like a turbo). that's on the 550 turbo tune. on the 650 and 700 tune it's very surface dependant but driving around on 20psi helps and so second will fight more but third is just stupid aka gone with little fight. and again, LOT better than the track. i plan on setting up boost by gear and still have to play with my timer/delay on the AMS500 boost controller.

ok as far as slicks go i was able to find some data which i will give us much detail as possible and you guys can take it for what it is.

novi2000 from few years back at 11#, aggressive tune, 550rwhp, 500rwtq, drag oriented suspension, 26x10.5x15 et streets in the rear, skinnies in the front, and no front sway bar. good track prep and car nice and cool.

60'>>> 1.57
330'>>> 4.67
1/8>>> 7.21
MPH>>> 97.15
1000'>>> 9.38
1/4>>> 11.18
MPH>>> 125.90

turbo setup at 11#, conservative tune, 550rwhp, 550rwtq, road racing suspension, 26x10.5x17 (yes 17s for now to clear my cobra brakes), 18" saleens in the front. sway bar disconnected but not removed. good track prep but car was hot lapped like 5 times in the row.

60'>>> 1.64
330'>>> 4.68
1/8>>> 7.21
MPH>>> 99.25
1000'>>> 9.36
1/4>>> 11.19
MPH>>> 124.06

i later discovered, or maybe forgot, about an added safety map in the pms which we did for the initial setup while everything, motor wise, was being dialed in. this safety feature pulls timing and adds s**t load of fuel when the car hits 200 degrees so hence the lower mph. i've hit 130 on this tune before. needless to say it will get bumped up to like 215-220 area. also, plan on running 28" et drags on a 15" wheel this season which i know will help lot.

here are the details on the suspension, which is obviously not ideal for drag racing although i'm extremely happy with the 60's given what i have as this is a street and not a drag car... maximum motorsports hd torque arm, nearly 400# traditional springs in the rear cause of it, 375# coilovers in the front which translate to like 900# traditional spring. and tokico 5 ways on all fours.

pk

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post #20 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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I have a stock block 347 with victor jr heads and a holly systemax intake my trans is a TKO 3550 with a Ram clutch my car runs 11.68s . I would like to run
10.00s with a trubo or a supercharger

I can weight anything
I can spend 2000$

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post #21 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 12:20 PM
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PKSTANG-- Good info.

For some comparison #s, I'll add my 88 hatchback times and mods:

Mods in signature and makes 546 rwhp.
On 16" MT ET Street Radials in rear, pony wheels front and rear
7.03 1/8th
103.56 mph
1.69 sixty foot
93 octane pump gas with Mr. Freeze (50/50 mix).

Had a better 60' on a separate pass (1.64) so it had a 6 second pass in it but I never put it all together.

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 12:32 PM
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I have a stock block 347 with victor jr heads and a holly systemax intake my trans is a TKO 3550 with a Ram clutch my car runs 11.68s . I would like to run
10.00s with a trubo or a supercharger

I can weight anything
I can spend 2000$
This will probably spark a lot of controversy but here are my thoughts/suggestions based on your combo:

You are gooing to be at the power limit of the block so you need the car to be as efficient as possible within your power limit (of the block). You need the maximum area under the curve, you need the car to be light, and you need an excellent 60' and you need to drive it VERY well. All that said here are my recommendations:

-A supercharger is going to take power to drive it...power you cant afford to give up, plus the blower belt tugs on the crank.

-A turbo makes more area under the curve (power and torque) and it doesn't take any power to make power like the supercharger. However, I don't think you are going to get the 60" you need and you will be losing power/time between shifts....power and time you cant afford.

-Nitrous makes tremendous power and torque under the curve. It takes no power to make power. There is minimal lost power/time between shifts. Nitrous will allow for excellent 60' times and adds almost no weight to the front of the car. A nitrous car is EASY to drive consistently. You are injecting your own atmosphere so the car should be relatively consistent.

I would make a few changes to try and get your car to run closer to 10s on motor and then add a nitrous kit.

What Cam are you using?
What exhaust?
What is the compression of the motor?
And what was your 60' and MPH on the 11.68 pass?

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 01:47 PM
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Good Info !!!!!!!!!!
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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I have Anderson Hi rev cam N 91
I dont know my comption but I have a flat top pistion with 59 cc
My 60 foot is like 1.57 to1.60
I have jegs long tubs headers and 3 inc exhaust
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 04:22 PM
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Im guessing it should be close to 11:1

I would work on the 60 foot, lighten the car and make sure the tune is on. At 3000-3200 lbs I would think your car would run closer to 10s on motor. Then add as much nitrous as you need to run 10.0s

That's the route I would go....

What rear gear do you run and what was your MPH on the 11.68 pass?
What year and body style is the car and do you know what it weighs?

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq
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post #26 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 04:28 PM
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I would make a few changes to try and get your car to run closer to 10s on motor and then add a nitrous kit.
x2

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post #27 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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I have a 4.10 gear and it mph at 116.22 most of the time the car weights 3120
with me
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Quote:
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PKSTANG-- Good info.

For some comparison #s, I'll add my 88 hatchback times and mods:

Mods in signature and makes 546 rwhp.
On 16" MT ET Street Radials in rear, pony wheels front and rear
7.03 1/8th
103.56 mph
1.69 sixty foot
93 octane pump gas with Mr. Freeze (50/50 mix).

Had a better 60' on a separate pass (1.64) so it had a 6 second pass in it but I never put it all together.
thanks and likewise... you're getting your moneys worth out of that simple setup. i will update in few months. pk

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post #29 of 29 Old 01-25-2012, 10:03 PM
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I have a 4.10 gear and it mph at 116.22 most of the time the car weights 3120
with me
On that pass, you were only using around 330-350 rwhp. I think your combo could make close to 380 rwhp with sorting out any little remaining items and a good tune on it. I have seen an 11:1 347s with victor Jrs and a systemax make 400 rwhp. It had a custom cam, powerpipe, big TB and mass air, electric water pump and fan with only an alternator and really good flowing exhaust. All the little stuff was well sorted and the tune was spot on.

If you make ~530-550 rwhp you should easily hit your goal. I had a 363 with a 150 shot that made 580 rwhp through a TKO and it ran low 6.20s. 530-550 nitrous rwhp should get you 10.0s pretty easily at that weight.

1988 Hatchback. Terminator Swap, Teksid block 5.0L Stroker, 2.3 Whipple. 742whp, 802rwtq
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