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post #1 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Car will NOT 60'

No matter what I do my car will not hook. The best 60' I can get is a 1.80 Suspension is as follows

Front
Eibach drag springs
90/10 struts
strut tower bar
lower K member brace

Rear
Eibach drag springs
50/50 shock
South Side upper and lower arms
Battle Boxes
Spool
3.73 gears
27/10.50/15 ET Street bias slicks

I do a massive burn out and have tried air pressure from 9-14 psi with the same results every time. I have tried 2 step settings from 2500 all the way to 5000 and it spins everytime. The car will not hook no matter what. I am running 11.8s at 119mph off 1.8 short times spinning out of the hole. It is so frustrating because I know the car is capable of low 11s if it would hook. Anyone have any ideas or advise before I cut the rear end out of a really nice clean black notchback to back half it?


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post #2 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 04:36 PM
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Might want to put some ET DRAGS and try that , alot people have no luck with the et streets , some do !


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post #3 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 04:46 PM
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This sounds like your problem.
strut tower bar
lower K member brace

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post #4 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nutzz View Post
This sounds like your problem.
strut tower bar
lower K member brace
I don't understand how that would be a problem but I have tried it without the strut tower brace with the same results.

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post #5 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Might want to put some ET DRAGS and try that , alot people have no luck with the et streets , some do !
The biggest difference between the ET street and ET drag is the DOT number stamped on the sidewall. The ET drags are even available in the same M5 rubber compound that the ET streets have.

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post #6 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 07:00 PM
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Maybe change your pinion angle. I don't know that much about it, but a buddy of mine changed his several times before he hit the sweet spot. Good luck. BTW, what times are you running?

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post #7 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 07:09 PM
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Ok why do you have a strut tower brace on a drag car?

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post #8 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 07:38 PM
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i wonder if the front pops to quickly and the rear tops out and bounces unloading the tires and spinning? Do you have video?

theres a bunch of things i would try, adjustable front struts, double adjustable control arms and maybe different lower control arms in the stock location
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post #9 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 427strkrLX View Post
No matter what I do my car will not hook. The best 60' I can get is a 1.80 Suspension is as follows

Front
Eibach drag springs
90/10 struts
strut tower bar
lower K member brace

Rear
Eibach drag springs
50/50 shock
South Side upper and lower arms
Battle Boxes
Spool
3.73 gears
27/10.50/15 ET Street bias slicks

I do a massive burn out and have tried air pressure from 9-14 psi with the same results every time. I have tried 2 step settings from 2500 all the way to 5000 and it spins everytime. The car will not hook no matter what. I am running 11.8s at 119mph off 1.8 short times spinning out of the hole. It is so frustrating because I know the car is capable of low 11s if it would hook. Anyone have any ideas or advise before I cut the rear end out of a really nice clean black notchback to back half it?
Okay, I'm assuming the motor is a 427W, correct? If so, front heavy, this I know.

is it the stock k-member? don't need the strut tower brace or k-member brace, just adds weight. Use either 4 cyl front springs (cheap) or 14" 150 coilovers. Whats the car weigh? stock 5.0 rear springs work great. Do you have an rear anti rollbar or an air bag in the right rear? How is the launch, any noticeable car twist? Subframe connectors? Manual or automaic tranny? "Massive burnout" shouldn't be required, may just be overheating the tires and making them "greasy". Pinion angle could be a factor as well.

91 notch, 408W, 10.5 comp, Jay Allen cam, Crane linkbars, Scorpion rockers, vic jr intake/heads, Canton pan, Mac longtubes, C4, UPR adj. uppers/lowers, Strange struts/shocks, subframe connectors, wild rides 6pt, Team Z k-member/anti-roll bar, MSD ignition.
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post #10 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dy85merc View Post
Maybe change your pinion angle. I don't know that much about it, but a buddy of mine changed his several times before he hit the sweet spot. Good luck. BTW, what times are you running?
You are the second person to mention this to me but I don't know much about it and I don't have adjustable arms. I might try some adjustable arms to see if I can get any results. The car is running 11.8s at 119mph 1.8 60'. If anyone has any info on pinion angle vs. hooking at the track help me out.

Quote:
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Ok why do you have a strut tower brace on a drag car?
It was on the car when I bought it. I had the motor out of the car and have not put it back on.

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Originally Posted by slow87GT View Post
i wonder if the front pops to quickly and the rear tops out and bounces unloading the tires and spinning? Do you have video?

theres a bunch of things i would try, adjustable front struts, double adjustable control arms and maybe different lower control arms in the stock location
That makes sense. I don't have any video good enough to make that kind of call from it. I'll see if I can get some next time I go to the track.

Adjustable arms in the stock location sound like my next try at this, that way I can play with the pinion angle as well.

I have one pic of the launch. This pic is from a test and tune so ignore the red light The front is really high up for launch with a 2000 rpm 2 step and half throttle so the front may be popping to quickly. And this again is only a 1.8 60' in the pic. Maybe some 70/30 or adjustable struts to slow the front end lifting?




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post #11 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mattstang65 View Post
Okay, I'm assuming the motor is a 427W, correct? If so, front heavy, this I know.

is it the stock k-member? don't need the strut tower brace or k-member brace, just adds weight. Use either 4 cyl front springs (cheap) or 14" 150 coilovers. Whats the car weigh? stock 5.0 rear springs work great. Do you have an rear anti rollbar or an air bag in the right rear? How is the launch, any noticeable car twist? Subframe connectors? Manual or automaic tranny? "Massive burnout" shouldn't be required, may just be overheating the tires and making them "greasy". Pinion angle could be a factor as well.
Engine combo is in my sig. 427W was an old car.
Stock K member.
Car weighs about 3150
Yes on the rear anti roll bar
Yes on the air bag in the right rear
No twist, leaves straight
Yes on the subframe connectors
Manual trans
Have tried several different burn out methods, generally the hotter I get them the better it leaves.

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post #12 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Found this after a quick Google! Apparently pinion angle has nothing to do with traction?
http://www.buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm

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post #13 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 09:50 PM
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Wow dude, your car looks just like my dads. Crazy. LOL.

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post #14 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 427strkrLX View Post
Found this after a quick Google! Apparently pinion angle has nothing to do with traction?
http://www.buickperformance.com/Pinion.htm
BS. I dont care what Buick 'tard says - even if he draws cute little pictures. Pinion angle changes hole-shot traction. Many people here have been advising other users about proper setting of the pinion angle. And they are saying it to you now. It's FREE if you've got adjustable uppers. Why wouldnt you set it properly?

I've experienced the difference personally. With ZERO other changes, my 60' dropped .3 from a pinion angle change only.
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post #15 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 10:22 PM
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BTW, 11.8s at 119mph on a 427 and a procharger??? There's more going on here than just a bad 60'.
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post #16 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 10:50 PM
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YEH it should be trapping way higher mph than 119 with a blower, hell it should trap that or more on engine alone
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post #17 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Engine combo is in my sig. 427W was an old car.
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Originally Posted by DangerWillRobinson View Post
BTW, 11.8s at 119mph on a 427 and a procharger??? There's more going on here than just a bad 60'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Buckley View Post
YEH it should be trapping way higher mph than 119 with a blower, hell it should trap that or more on engine alone
The 427 is a car I sold several years ago to 93Stoked on this forum.

119mph Is actually faster than an Iron headed 331 should be trapping with the 8000' elevation correction factor at our track. P heads, explorer intake, OLD ProCharger D-1B, I am into the complete combo including the blower about $3K.

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post #18 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 11:13 PM
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the car dosent look like it squats at all, id put upr pro series adjustable upper and lower control arms in it w/spherical bushings and get moroso rear drag springs and get some hoosier qtps.
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post #19 of 94 Old 09-19-2009, 11:19 PM
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Pinion angle brother....U need to get urself as much weight off the front of that car and def put some double adjustable uppers in it. Every car is different but start at about -3 on the pinion angle.

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post #20 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 02:13 PM
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I found that putting alot of heat into the tires gets them too greasy. I too am running ET Streets (26x10.5x16) around 14psi. It depends on track prep, and track conditions too. I found that giving the tires 5-10 seconds to heat up is generally good enough.

Just a quick run down of my car....04 Cobra, Ported Eaton, Upper Pulley, Stock IRS with a diff brace..With Skinnies up front and the ET Streets and some weight reduction, I had my car to 3600 with me in it.

Last weekend, I cut 1.6x 60's all weekend, with my best being a 1.600

hope that helps!
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post #21 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 02:24 PM
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How old are your tires? Try and borrow a true set of slicks from a friend - even if it is the same compound. A slick will hook better, period.
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post #22 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 03:11 PM
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get rid of those south side bars they hit the tires HARD and without a double adj rear shock is going to rebound and unload the tires. Been there done that!

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post #23 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 03:21 PM
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get rid of those south side bars they hit the tires HARD and without a double adj rear shock is going to rebound and unload the tires. Been there done that!
Yes this is very true as well...SOUTHSIDEs are way too vilant...Not only do they hit the tire to hard. But even with torque boxes reinforced...With southsides and a stick on 26x11.5" et streets. After 1 day @ the track hookin hard with them. I tore the whole floor area apart. Had to have the whole back of the car redone. Buy urself some good single adjustable lowers as well if you have the money.

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post #24 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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How old are your tires? Try and borrow a true set of slicks from a friend - even if it is the same compound. A slick will hook better, period.
Less than a year old. ET Street bias are slicks.


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post #25 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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get rid of those south side bars they hit the tires HARD and without a double adj rear shock is going to rebound and unload the tires. Been there done that!
Ya, new upper and lower arms will be my nest attempt at getting this thing to hook.

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post #26 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 04:12 PM
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fwiw, i run the southside lowers with the lower of the two mounting locations (supposed to be the max traction setting) and a set of BALD et streets and im getting 1.7 60 foots launching my aod at 2500rpm. i would look into getting adjustable shocks. i put on slicks that were back spaced wrong and found that my rear was squatting really hard. so hard it sat on the slicks and cut a groove into the slicks. i have strange struts and shocks, the rears were set to 50/50 and it was too soft. will be going back with them set one click stiffer. also noticed that the front struts too loose were hurting my times as well.

long story short, adjustable struts/shocks FTW!!!

so far no damage to the torque boxes. they are welded up as well as reinforced. i then tied the reinforcement into my role cage (upper and lower boxes)

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post #27 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 04:21 PM
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Ya, new upper and lower arms will be my nest attempt at getting this thing to hook.
I'll throw in my .02 on this.

First I would ask what type of clutch? Un-sprung hub,srung hub plate?
That will make a huge diff in itself.
Alot of people do not run a bag and an anti roll bar together.
The control arms should be changed out for sure for your 5 speed combo.
With good control arms/pinion angle and a decent SRUNG hub clutch,
you should take alot of the hit out of it on launch. Keeping the rpm's in
check will help you also. (5500-5800)

One last idea, I would look into Hoosier quick time pro's.
We have always made better passes with them. Air at 11.5-13 with a good track.
I'd start with the above ideas and go from there.

Good luck with it.

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post #28 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 04:26 PM
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ET Street bias are slicks.

Not a true slick and not going to argue with you. Just trying to help. From my personal experience there is a big differrence.

Have you tried both on this car?
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post #29 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 07:04 PM
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I run the same tire, i also have slicks, huge difference!

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post #30 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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I'll throw in my .02 on this.

First I would ask what type of clutch? Un-sprung hub,srung hub plate?
That will make a huge diff in itself.
Alot of people do not run a bag and an anti roll bar together.
The control arms should be changed out for sure for your 5 speed combo.
With good control arms/pinion angle and a decent SRUNG hub clutch,
you should take alot of the hit out of it on launch. Keeping the rpm's in
check will help you also. (5500-5800)

One last idea, I would look into Hoosier quick time pro's.
We have always made better passes with them. Air at 11.5-13 with a good track.
I'd start with the above ideas and go from there.

Good luck with it.
The bag was in the car when I bought it, I tried it a few times but most of the time it is empty because I never saw any improvement by putting air in it. It is a sprung hub clutch also.

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Not a true slick and not going to argue with you. Just trying to help. From my personal experience there is a big differrence.

Have you tried both on this car?
Have not tried both on this car but have tried both on previous cars and could never tell the difference. I run ET streets on most of my cars because I drive to the track. I ran ET streets on my last car and I couldn't make them spin if I tried.

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post #31 of 94 Old 09-20-2009, 10:54 PM
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I thought it might help to mention that I have been struggling with 60ft short times as well. I ran the 26\10.5\15 E.T. Streets & I couldn't get out of the low 1.8's. I went back to a 26\8.5\15 M\T Drag (same size dimensionally as the E.T Street) & immediately ran into the 1.7's. I experimented with launch rpm, tire pressure, right rear airbag pressure, installed rim screws, etcetera & I just ran into the 1.6's for every pass I made this weekend IMHO....

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post #32 of 94 Old 09-22-2009, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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OK, I went and got me an angle finder and my pinion angle is currently -5. For my setup with the SSM arms and spherical bushings that is way too high according to everything I have been reading. Sounds like it's time for some adjustable uppers at least so I can get it down around -2 or -3 and I might even pick up 1-2 mph in the process by getting some resistance off the U-joints.

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post #33 of 94 Old 09-22-2009, 12:43 AM
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Cool. www.baselinesuspensions.com has some good info on setting up pinion angle IMHO....

'89 LX 'vert. 331 stroker, TKO600, my daily driver, [email protected] up here in SLC, Utah
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post #34 of 94 Old 09-22-2009, 03:25 AM
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OK, I went and got me an angle finder and my pinion angle is currently -5. For my setup with the SSM arms and spherical bushings that is way too high according to everything I have been reading. Sounds like it's time for some adjustable uppers at least so I can get it down around -2 or -3 and I might even pick up 1-2 mph in the process by getting some resistance off the U-joints.
Believe it or not...My buddies Malibu was @ -5 and it hooked but not great. Put the pinion angle @ -3. That #### leave with the wheels like 2.5ft in the air and picked up just shy of a full tenth in 60ft and almost 2 full tenth n 1.5 mph out the back door.

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post #35 of 94 Old 09-22-2009, 09:26 AM
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1) get your pinion angle dialed in
2) If you are launching at 2000 on the two step, your engine is falling flat on its face after launch and unloading the tires
3) the 90/10 struts may also be contributing to the front end raising up too quickly, then coming down and unloading the tires
4) Slicks work better than ET streets

My buddies car with a completely stock suspension, other than 26 x 8.5" slicks, sixtied, 1.61 with a H/C/I 306...spinning.

You have many issues to work out...good luck. It seems as though you are hard headed and do not want to listen to anyone who gives advice to you about tire selection. I used Southside lowers, stock uppers, Eibach Drag springs and Lakewood 70/30's up front and 50/50's in the rear on my old setup....it was good for 1.31 sixty foots on the motor. You just have to pay attention to detail. James
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