What "should" my fox run? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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What "should" my fox run?

Just curious to see if anyone of you's had the same set up and what it would run.

It's a 347 with AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM II intake, Comp cam, Holley 80mm throttle body, 24lb injectors with a 90MM maf, MSD ignition and 373 gears. It also still has AC lol..

For suspension I'm going to take out the old set up and replace it with 4cyl springs all the way around, Lakewood 50/50 rear shocks w/ air bag in the rear and strange 10 way adj. front struts.

I know this is going to be based on 60fts and driving skills but with it hooking and driving like I stole it what "should" I see??

I'm guessing low 12's maybe high 11's on slicks?

Any input is appreciated and opinions are welcomed

Thanks,
Vinnie.

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post #2 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 09:51 AM
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high 11's shouldnt be an issue.



1989- gt full drag build in progress..
1991- emerald coupe- stroked, caged & sprayed
1999 cobra- 5.0 stroker and single turbo coming soon
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 10:55 AM
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1.7 60 foot, [email protected]
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stang Seller View Post
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SS
What suspension were you running? and was this on slicks? thanks.
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post #5 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 11:25 AM
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Hahaha whoops, I thought you were asking what YOU would run!!! My apologies! Looking at the thread title, I must have missed the part where you asked about other people with similar combos.... If you run that time, do I win anything????
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post #6 of 21 Old 09-13-2008, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stang Seller View Post
Hahaha whoops, I thought you were asking what YOU would run!!! My apologies! Looking at the thread title, I must have missed the part where you asked about other people with similar combos.... If you run that time, do I win anything????
SS
Hahaha...I hope I run that time I would be happy lol..
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post #7 of 21 Old 09-18-2008, 09:57 PM
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low 12s high 11s are in reach

1990GT - AOD
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post #8 of 21 Old 09-18-2008, 10:27 PM
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I'm guessing high 12s
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-19-2008, 12:36 AM
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Why 165's on a 347?


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post #10 of 21 Old 09-19-2008, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 93mustank View Post
Why 165's on a 347?
That's how I bought it...

They're still better than a TW head or RPM head that I see alot of people running..

This winter I might do AFR 205's and a bigger cam but for now it's fine.

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post #11 of 21 Old 09-19-2008, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing high 12s
Yeah maybe leaving the line in 3rd gear....lol
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post #12 of 21 Old 09-20-2008, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked venom View Post
That's how I bought it...

They're still better than a TW head or RPM head that I see alot of people running..
They are better than a T.W. head. Better at what? Take a look at this.

TREMEC TRANSMISSIONS - PURE STREET
NMRA SERIES 2008 RULES

Class Overview

Pure Street is designed for naturally aspirated small block 1979 and newer Ford Fox Chassis and 2005 to present Mustang bodied and Ford powered vehicles. Pure Street entries are limited to 302, and 2V/3V/4V 4.6L Modular engine types. 5.0L engines are permitted a maximum of 313 cubic inches. 4.6L engines are permitted a maximum of 291 cubic inches.

Qualifying Information, Ladder Type, & Tree
All Run, NHRA Sportsman Ladder, Pro .400 tree, Heads-Up.

Accepted Products Deadline: NMRA will accept requests from manufacturers to have new products considered for addition to 2008 accepted lists only up until January 1, 2008. After this date, NMRA will consider manufacturer requests for new products for the 2009 season.

BASE WEIGHTS

ENGINE
POWER ADDER
BASE CI
BASE WEIGHT

5.0L
None
311
3050

4.6 2V
None
289
2700

4.6 3V
None
289
2900

4.6 4V
None
289
3150


Maximum Cubic Inch – 313 ci

AOD combinations may deduct 100 lbs.
Carburetor applications – add 75 lbs. to base weight. See section 1.19
TFS Twisted Wedge cylinder heads – add 50 lbs. to base weight. See section 1.17 Sullivan 4V manifolds – add 75lbs. to base weight. See section 1.21

Note: 15 lbs/cu in penalty applies for cubic inches over base weight break.

Note: All weights are with driver at conclusion of run at scale area.



CLASS RULES, PURE STREET
1.1 COOLING SYSTEM
RADIATOR: OEM production-style or aftermarket radiator is required and must be mounted in stock location. Stock core support is required.
WATER PUMP: Any aftermarket (belt drive or electric drive) pump permitted.
COOLING FANS: Any permitted.
1.2 ENGINE
ENGINE: Engine limited to 302W (5.0) and 4.6L Modular engine types. 302 Windsor type engines and 4.6L engines may be used in any 1979 and newer Fox based chassis. Engine swapping permitted during event.
1.2a) ENGINE DRIVE BELT SYSTEM: Factory style 6 rib drive belt system required. 6-rib belt required. Minimum crankshaft pulley diameter – 3-inch.
1.3 EXHAUST
EXHAUST: All entries allowed to use tubular headers. Adapter plates to bolt headers to cylinder head permitted, maximum thickness .500-inch. Exhaust must be directed out of car body, away from driver and fuel tank. All exhaust gases released from engine must pass through entire exhaust system.
1.3a) HEADERS & COLLECTORS: All entries allowed to use tubular headers, maximum tubing size 1.75”.
1.3b) EXHAUST TUBING/SIZE: Maximum exhaust pipe diameter – 2.5-inch up to gas tank, 3-inch from gas tank rearward (tailpipe).
1.3c) TAILPIPE & EXHAUST RULES: Full exhaust system required. Tailpipes must exit within 12-inch of rearend centerline housing.
1.3d) MUFFLER REQUIREMENTS: Commercially available (generally available through retail locations) mufflers required.
A maximum of two (2) mufflers is allowed. A maximum of one (1) inlet and one (1) outlet is permitted. Mufflers may have a maximum of 2.5-inch inlet & outlet.
1.5 FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM
FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM: Electric or mechanical fuel pumps permitted. Pressure regulators, and any line size permitted. All fuel lines must originate and return to a single, non-segmented, fuel cell or OEM fuel tank. Fuel pump must shut off with a master electrical switch. Any method of artificially heating or cooling fuel prohibited (cool cans, ice, wet rags, Freon, etc.). A valve for removal of fuel (gasoline) during technical inspections is mandatory. Valve must be installed between carburetor/injection and regulator, and should be installed in such a manner that allows a cup to be placed to catch fuel removed from the line. Exit of valve should be capped or plugged in addition to being closed for added safety.
Aftermarket/fabricated fuel tank or cell permitted. Must be located in trunk area. If tank or fuel filler is inside trunk, a bulkhead of minimum .032” aluminum or .024” steel must be used between trunk and driver compartment, and tank must be vented to outside of car. When used, fuel cells must have a metal box protecting the part of the fuel cell that is outside the trunk floor. Non-metallic fuel cells or tanks must be grounded to frame. See NHRA General Regulations Section 1.5.
1.6 GASOLINE
GASOLINE: Gasoline as outlined here is the only acceptable fuel for use in this eliminator for the specified combinations (See Section 13). The NMRA Racing Association reserves the right to check gasoline at any time during competition. Gasoline, as defined by the NHRA rulebook, is a mixture of hydrocarbons only. The average dielectric constant (D.C.) for the hydrocarbons that compromises gasoline is 2.025. This is defined as a reading of “0” on the fuel-check meter.
1.6a) SPEC FUEL: NMRA requires the use of one of the allowable NMRA spec fuels in this class. Mixing of fuels prohibited. Failure to pass fuel check is grounds for disallowance of the run during qualifying and disqualification from the event during eliminations. Fuel must pass color, fuel meter, specific gravity, chemical testing, and/or any other check as required by NMRA Technical Department.
1.6b) SPEC FUEL ACCEPTED LIST:


Manufacturer Fuel Type
Color

VP Racing Fuels
C-10
Colorless


1.6)c NITROUS OXIDE
NITROUS OXIDE: Prohibited.
1.9OIL SYSTEM
OILING SYSTEM: Wet sump oiling system required. Dry sump oiling systems prohibited. External oil pumps prohibited. Oil lines run outside engine block to feed oil galleries prohibited. Vacuum pump and/or evacuator system (header, or otherwise) prohibited. Any oil pan permitted.
1.10 SUPERCHARGER
SUPERCHARGERS: Prohibited.
1.15 BLOCK
BLOCK: Any cast iron Ford type 302W permitted. Any cast iron or cast aluminum 4.6 based engine block permitted. Block must maintain Ford OEM bore spacing, deck heights, and crankshaft spacing for engine type used. Deck spacers (extensions) prohibited.
1.16 ENGINE LOCATION/MOUNTS
ENGINE LOCATION: Engine location may be altered from stock, however no part of engine or heads may contact firewall. Engine plates prohibited. Solid engine mounts permitted.
1.17 HEADS
GENERAL GUIDELINES:
302W TYPE HEADS: Only commercially available cast aluminum or cast iron, two-valve per cylinder heads permitted. Billet, one-off, custom and/or fabricated heads prohibited. Cylinder heads must be overhead valve single spark plug per cylinder design.
4.6 TYPE HEADS: Only commercially available cast aluminum or cast iron, cylinder heads permitted. Billet, one-off, custom and/or fabricated heads prohibited. Cylinder head must be single spark plug per cylinder design.
1.17a) HEADS, PERMITTED: Only original manufacture, generally available heads, accepted by NMRA, permitted. External modifications prohibited in port area. Spark plug placement and depth must remain stock. Billet, one-off, custom and/or fabricated heads prohibited.
1.17b) HEADS, MASS PRODUCED: Only mass produced, commercially available, NMRA accepted, cast aluminum or cast iron Ford cylinder heads permitted. Low volume, one off, aluminum cylinder heads prohibited.
1.17c) HEADS, BOLT PATTERN: Class is permitted standard bolt-pattern only for cylinder heads.
Maximum of 10 head fasteners per side in Ford OEM location.
1.17d) HEADS, PORTING: Permitted.
1.17e) HEADS, WELDING/EPOXY: Prohibited.
1.17f) HEADS, VALVES: Maximum valve sizes for 302W heads is 2.025-inch Intake/1.605-inch Exhaust. Maximum valve sizes for 4.6L two valve heads are 1.850-inch Intake/1.452-inch Exhaust. Maximum valve sizes for 4.6L three-valve heads are 1.368-inch intake and 1.514-inch exhaust. Maximum valve sizes for 4.6L four valve heads are 1.487-inch Intake/1.211-inch Exhaust. Valve stem size in guide area must be 11/32-inch for 302W heads, Valve stem size in guide area must be 0.274-inch for 4.6L heads. Undercut stems permitted. Aftermarket steel valve permitted, titanium/exotic valves prohibited. Bronze lined or replacement guides permitted.
1.17g) HEADS, MILLING: Permitted. See combustion chamber volume. Cylinder heads must maintain original production valve angles + or – 2 degrees.
1.17h) HEADS, PUSHROD SLEEVES: Prohibited.
1.17i) HEADS, COMBUSTION CHAMBER VOLUME: The following cylinder heads are not restricted on combustion chamber volume: Ford OEM cast iron 289, 302, 351, FRPP GT-40, & GT-40P heads. Minimum combustion chamber volume for all other 302W heads is 58.0 cc’s. Minimum combustion chamber volume for 2V/3V/4V 4.6L heads is 42.0 cc’s.
1.17j) HEADS, PORT PLATES/ADAPTER PLATES: Intake port plates prohibited, exhaust port plates maximum thickness .500-inch permitted.
1.17k) VALVE JOB: Any valve job permitted.
1.17l) PERMITTED CYLINDER HEAD LIST, PARTS NUMBER: These are the only permitted cylinder heads and part numbers for competition in this category. If your cylinder head is not on this list, it is prohibited.

Stock Ford OEM 289/302/5.0 and 4.6L Cylinder Heads.
Ford GT-40 and GT-40P Cast Iron Cylinder Heads
FRPP GT-40 Aluminum Cylinder Heads, PN# M 6049 X303 & Y303
FRPP/SVO 4.6 2V Cylinder Heads
FRPP/SVO 4.6L 4-Valve Cylinder Head, M 6049 T46
Edelbrock Performer & Performer RPM Heads, PN# 60329, 60359, 60279, 60229, 60259, 60269
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Aluminum Standard Version (Non-R) Cylinder Heads **
Brodix ST 5.0 & 5.0R Aluminum Cylinder Heads, PN# ST 5.0 & ST 5.0R
Holley 5.0 Aluminum Cylinder Heads, PN# 300-573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579
World Products Roush 180 & Windsor Jr, PN# 53030, 23030
Air Flow Research 165, PN# 1398, 1399, 1400, 1402, 1472
Air Flow Research 185, P/N# 1387, 1388, 1389, 1406
Dart Pro 1 170cc As-Cast Cylinder Heads, PN#13100080, 13111181, 13111182
Canfield 170cc Street #18-350
RHS 180cc (Iron & Aluminum)
** These heads permitted with a 50 lb. weight adder to base weight

Note: Stock factory OEM heads are those cylinder heads that are factory production line installed on production vehicles as recognized by NHRA.



Not according to the NMRA Pure Street rules. Perhaps they just add weight to T.W. cylinder headed vehicles for ####s and giggles, not because they make exceptional power.

1993 GT Naturally aspirated OEM "untouched" 302 stock shortblock.(NON-FLYCUT) TFS T.W., off the shelf H.R., Systemax 2, Pro-shifted TKO.

60' 1.45 / 1320' 10.59 / MPH 126.06
Best MPH: 1/8=101.79 1/4=126.06
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post #13 of 21 Old 09-20-2008, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
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Perhaps, but my buddy gained 15rwhp and 16rwtq from switching from TW heads to AFR 165's....Maybe they just do add weight hmmm..I seen the dyno sheet.
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-20-2008, 07:37 AM
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I would say mid 12'[email protected]
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post #15 of 21 Old 09-20-2008, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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I would say mid 12'[email protected]
I figure with slicks and skinnies maybe I can do low 12's...
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post #16 of 21 Old 10-07-2009, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked venom View Post
Hahaha...I hope I run that time I would be happy lol..
You would need to drive it to find out if you can run 20's you dumb ####!!!!!
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-08-2009, 09:09 AM
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Well, my car runs mid 12's with the combo in my sig so with all of that stuff you have, if you aren't DEEP into the 11's you may opt for a driver mod.

93 SSP 3220 lbs,W/C T-5,3.90's,ported gt40 irons,stock valves,cut/ported Cobra upper,ported lower.30# inj.SVT MAF,Bcam/1.7'sN/[email protected] 1/[email protected] DA 1083,1.74 60',old Nitto Dr's Catted UPR X, stock airbox and full emissions equip still on the car.passes Cali emissions
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post #18 of 21 Old 10-08-2009, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Cobra427 View Post
Well, my car runs mid 12's with the combo in my sig so with all of that stuff you have, if you aren't DEEP into the 11's you may opt for a driver mod.
no kidding

should "make" 340rwhp or so
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post #19 of 21 Old 10-08-2009, 10:56 AM
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I think everyone depends on combo and what you want out of it but I agree, 165's might be a little small...........also the tw's should outperform the 165's all day long unless something is mismatched.

I can also tell you of people who went from tw's to comparable afrs and made less hp

1 bad Mustang, 2 slow Z28's, and a Sierra crewcab for the groceries.
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-08-2009, 05:18 PM
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my 347 procomp 210 5 speed full weight lx ac and all went 11.82 @117mph in 45 ded weather with a 1.75 60 foot o TRUE 17 inch radial tires. In the heat it went 11.82 @114.5 in the heat on 17 inch mickeys with a 1.63 60 foot so cold air and the mickeys 11.50 maby

pro comp headed 347 pump gas LS1 killer
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-08-2009, 05:32 PM
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Assuming you're a good driver, I would think anything more than 11s (12.00s or slower) you should be disappointed. Provided the air is good and you hook...

1988 LX hatch-AOD--Stock short block, Performer heads, Performer intake, Precision Industries 3000 NL stall converter, 3.73s, etc...
13.57 @ 103--2.07 60'--street tires--8.77 @ 82--1/8 100 HP N2O-12.30 @ 116--2.16 60'-street tires--8.07 @ 92--1/8
^^^TIMES WITH STOCK HEADS, STALL CONVERTER.
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