Rear Susp - Coil overs or Conventional?? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 08-24-2008, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Rear Susp - Coil overs or Conventional??

who uses what?? whats recommended for a low 10 high 9 sec street/drag car? i had the conventional FMS "B" springs and single adj shocks last year and has high 1.4 60s. swapped to coil overs and this year i can beat a 1.50. seems alot of people use the conventional setup with UPR's stuff?


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post #2 of 36 Old 08-24-2008, 10:03 PM
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coilovers with the right spring rates.

did you ever figure out your locking up problem?


2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #3 of 36 Old 08-24-2008, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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coilovers with the right spring rates.

did you ever figure out your locking up problem?
I just cant get it to work at all...

yea..put in a trac bar and its been fine for about 10 passes and 100 street miles

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[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
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post #4 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 02:57 PM
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I prefer conventional springs. I run AFCO stock style rear springs.

Troy
1995 Mustang Cobra
347ci 10.52 @ 127.74 NA-Pump Gas (gone)
New Project in the works.
2009 F150 Lariat *tow truck*


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post #5 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 03:06 PM
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My car is not as fast as yours (high-10s) but I run coilover type springs in the conventional location with Maximum Motorsports weld in adapters. This allowed me to take advantage of the multitude of spring rates available with coilover type springs without having to spend the money on a coilover kit or the added weight of the coilover hardware.

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post #6 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Redsnk95 View Post
I prefer conventional springs. I run AFCO stock style rear springs.
see...now ur running what i thinkmy car should run....what weight? gears and tires?

auto or stick?

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post #7 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
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This weekend I just got my best 60' 1.34 3640 lbs...stock rear springs with 1 coil cut out.

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347 KENNEBELL 2.2 [email protected] 3600lbs(sold) 1989coupe 302 iron Gt-40's 369 rwh-363 t [email protected](retired)
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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This weekend I just got my best 60' 1.34 3640 lbs...stock rear springs with 1 coil cut out.

wow nice job!!! care to share the control arm specs??

i want to grab some UPR/Wolfe lowers but not sure if I should get standard length or single adjustables to center the rear end.

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[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 12:37 AM
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wow nice job!!! care to share the control arm specs??

i want to grab some UPR/Wolfe lowers but not sure if I should get standard length or single adjustables to center the rear end.
get some dbl adj lowers and if you have front coilovers also get the car scaled.

2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #10 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 04:26 AM
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Double Adjustable LOWERS????

Who makes those? They must be for coilover rears only, no conventional spring will work. Ive never seen double lowers.

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post #11 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Double Adjustable LOWERS????

Who makes those? They must be for coilover rears only, no conventional spring will work. Ive never seen double lowers.
baselinesuspensions.com

yea..they are nice but i think un-needed for me at least

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post #12 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 07:12 AM
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I see them now. Yup, coilover onlu (obviously, wouldnt work with spring perches). I have Kevin's single adj. lowers on my car.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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I see them now. Yup, coilover onlu (obviously, wouldnt work with spring perches). I have Kevin's single adj. lowers on my car.
whats your setup? times?

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8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
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post #14 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 08:52 AM
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I'd run coilovers just for the easy ability to adjust things. I have the D&D motorsports rear coilover kit that mounts in the stock location with QA1 springs that I replaced the ones that came with the kit. I needed a lower lb spring.

I am now going to the Baseline Pro Launch #2 that relocates the uppers. It says on Baselinesuspensions.com that it is better to have a way of adjusting the rear ride height.

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post #15 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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I'd run coilovers just for the easy ability to adjust things. I have the D&D motorsports rear coilover kit that mounts in the stock location with QA1 springs that I replaced the ones that came with the kit. I needed a lower lb spring.

I am now going to the Baseline Pro Launch #2 that relocates the uppers. It says on Baselinesuspensions.com that it is better to have a way of adjusting the rear ride height.
thats what I have...Varishock double adj coil overs w/ 130lb springs. the car just doesnt transfer and stay there even at full loose setting...like the coils being behind the axle are preventing it from transfering? i dunno. im sending my converter out to be re-worked and i will try it one more time.

the other thing about my coil overs is they are REALLY angled. prob about a 70ish fegree angled back due to how they mount...is that ok??

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[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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post #16 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 12:26 PM
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hmm mine sit in there straight up and down as far as I can tell. I'm only running Comp Engineering 3 way shocks. I plan on changing to a set of double adjustable when the funds allow me to do that.

Maybe take a look at the Skinny Kid stock rear coilover mount.



http://www.skinnykidracecars.com/pro...skrccoilovrkit

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post #17 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 12:27 PM
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Or on the NMRA forum a guy is selling them for very cheap.

http://www.nmradigital.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=79582

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post #18 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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well in order to have the shocks set like Varishock recommends at 15.25" length at ride height...i need to raise the mounting point and i use this kit

http://www.cachassisworks.com/CatPag..._15_WEB_75.pdf




and here is how it looks...axle hanging...more angle when its sitting on the ground


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post #19 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 05:31 PM
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that is a big problem. the shocks should not angle like that. i was told from a chassis builder to have them a 5* at the most.

why are they angled toward the front anyway? that seem odd also.

2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #20 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 06:21 PM
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stock v8 spring uncut.1.33 on a 275/60/15 mtdr
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post #21 of 36 Old 08-27-2008, 01:13 AM
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I just don't think a coilover should be used in the rear unless you can move the shock/spring inward and have them setup correctly at the proper angles.

IMO a coilover shock just does not work good in the stock location.

Troy
1995 Mustang Cobra
347ci 10.52 @ 127.74 NA-Pump Gas (gone)
New Project in the works.
2009 F150 Lariat *tow truck*


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post #22 of 36 Old 08-27-2008, 07:16 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiiC0p28NV0

this car has 4cyl springs in front and coilover sleeves on lakewood 50/50's in the rear stock location. leaving at 6000 on the hose with a 5spd.

2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #23 of 36 Old 08-27-2008, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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that is a big problem. the shocks should not angle like that. i was told from a chassis builder to have them a 5* at the most.

why are they angled toward the front anyway? that seem odd also.
thats how the adapters put them....here is a close up pic.....





and here is the mount pushing it out. this is in the middle and i have to use the upper one for racing and they are at a slightly more angle


Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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post #24 of 36 Old 08-27-2008, 09:07 PM
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Hows that thing runin' Jake. Are you going to do Tasca day in Oct?

My old car:
1985 GT with T-tops. Sportsman based 342, AFR 205's into a Vic Jr. and a C&S Billet Aerosol 800 carb fed by a Novi 2K, MSD Digital 7531. Street tune is 582rwhp at 6500rpm . Tube K-member and arms. Built 8.8 with 9 inch ends. Cage and chassis work by DMC Racing. Tuning by SD Concepts.
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Hows that thing runin' Jake. Are you going to do Tasca day in Oct?
its runnin ok cept for the 60' and the first half. needs to be ready for Tasca and a big race the following weekend down in Maryland. I WAS runner up in FFW Mod Comp couple weeks ago which got me some loot to play with.

gonna try a lighter spring first and see what happens...if i cant get it to work in 15-20 passes im going conventional. hopefully the re-worked converter helps out too

Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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post #26 of 36 Old 08-27-2008, 11:42 PM
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do the stock shocks angle forward like that when installed?

2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #27 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 06:27 AM
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wow nice job!!! care to share the control arm specs??

i want to grab some UPR/Wolfe lowers but not sure if I should get standard length or single adjustables to center the rear end.
MaximumMotorports lower and upr uppers

Team B&M Racing
347 KENNEBELL 2.2 [email protected] 3600lbs(sold) 1989coupe 302 iron Gt-40's 369 rwh-363 t [email protected](retired)
"New combo"... NA 363, tf 190 11r's, [email protected], 3275 lbs (ac/ps)
1986 coupe 80k stock bottom end, afr 165, 3550, si trim [email protected](ac/ps)
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post #28 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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do the stock shocks angle forward like that when installed?
no...stock shocks are straight up and down with the stock lower mounts. these lower mounts push the mounting area out like 2"

Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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MaximumMotorports lower and upr uppers
so factory length lowers that are non adj and dbl adj uppers? nice!!!

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[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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post #30 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 11:07 AM
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so factory length lowers that are non adj and dbl adj uppers? nice!!!
Yes sir...thanks

Team B&M Racing
347 KENNEBELL 2.2 [email protected] 3600lbs(sold) 1989coupe 302 iron Gt-40's 369 rwh-363 t [email protected](retired)
"New combo"... NA 363, tf 190 11r's, [email protected], 3275 lbs (ac/ps)
1986 coupe 80k stock bottom end, afr 165, 3550, si trim [email protected](ac/ps)
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post #31 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 12:24 PM
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Having the coilover angled rearwards like that is not terrible. It has two effects. 1) It reduces the effective rate of the shock and spring. You will just need a stiffer shock setting and higher spring rate than compared to a vertically mounted coilover. 2) It is going to add a little bit of friction to the motion of the shock.

A couple comments. You may not have enough bump travel in the rear suspension. It looks like there is about 2" of travel available before the shock housing hits the underneath of the upper spring perch. Put a small thin line of white lithium grease on the shock shaft. Launch the car. Stop. Jack it up and see how far up the shock traveled.

I think the rear spring rate is too low. To make a drag car launch well, you need high rear suspension roll stiffness and low front suspension roll stiffness. Ways to increase the roll stiffness of the rear suspension are to install a much stiffer rear swaybar and/or increase the spring rate. Alternately, you can reduce the roll stiffness of the front suspension. Which you choose to do is a function of how much body roll the car has on launch. If the car has too much roll, make the rear stiffer. If the roll is ok, you can make the front softer.

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post #32 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Having the coilover angled rearwards like that is not terrible. It has two effects. 1) It reduces the effective rate of the shock and spring. You will just need a stiffer shock setting and higher spring rate than compared to a vertically mounted coilover. 2) It is going to add a little bit of friction to the motion of the shock.

A couple comments. You may not have enough bump travel in the rear suspension. It looks like there is about 2" of travel available before the shock housing hits the underneath of the upper spring perch. Put a small thin line of white lithium grease on the shock shaft. Launch the car. Stop. Jack it up and see how far up the shock traveled.

I think the rear spring rate is too low. To make a drag car launch well, you need high rear suspension roll stiffness and low front suspension roll stiffness. Ways to increase the roll stiffness of the rear suspension are to install a much stiffer rear swaybar and/or increase the spring rate. Alternately, you can reduce the roll stiffness of the front suspension. Which you choose to do is a function of how much body roll the car has on launch. If the car has too much roll, make the rear stiffer. If the roll is ok, you can make the front softer.

now Im really confused....because what you said about the bump and spring rate is opposite of what the majority have told me.

first on the shocks...I have about 2.5" of bump as this is recommended by the manufacturer (Varishock) for drag racing applications. this is my first rear coil over setup so thats how I did it. the car only compresses about 1 to 1.5" anyways

on the spring rates...I was told to go lighter, not stiffer?? they are 130# springs in there right now and I can only manually compress the car by hand about an inch with the shocks at full soft. according to the charts on the Varishock website, that is the rate I should use since the back of my car weighs 1220ish. the car is isnt transfering weight as it is and i cant imagine how it would be with a stiffer spring. maybe I am totally wrong but its difficult for a perosn new to this to figure it out when everyone says something different.

at the track it seems with the shocks fully loose is my best 60s and as soon as i tighten them a little the 60s get worse. so I figured a softer spring would get me into the adjustability area

Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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post #33 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 03:06 PM
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how well is the front end rising?

2000 GT aka S2000
*NA 347* - TFS Street Heat Heads, T&D Shaft Rockers, Comp Cams Solid Roller, Super Vic Intake, Holley 950
Kooks SS 2" headers, 3.5" Dr.Gas X-pipe, 3.5" Magnaflow mufflers, TKO 600, Built 8.8, 4.88 gears, 26X10's
9.78 @ 138.88 w/1.38 60' - Still working on it
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post #34 of 36 Old 08-28-2008, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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how well is the front end rising?
as far as I know to full extension. this pic is from 2 weekends ago. this was the best 60' of FFW with rear shocks at zero. i tightened them a little after that and the car never came back to the 60 all weekend


Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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i think i screwed myself...looking at lower control arms...Wolfe's heavy duty bolts are 1/2".....UPR xtreme ones not sure...but I used the Baseline lowers which used 5/8" bolts.....now my holes are too big to swap them....

Silver '03 Cobra Coupe Auto
[email protected] w/ a 1.35 - Stock motor, Eaton, n2o
8.78 @ 152 - L&M Teksid, TVS @ 20PSI
8.33 @ 163 - L&M Teksid, Whipple 4.0
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