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post #1 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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faceplate/proshift on the street

I am building a 66 coupe with a stroked 351W. looking to make 550ish hp/ftlbs, shifting around 7000-7500. I want a stick (TKO or T-5). I will mainly drive on the street, but will go to the track. My question is: can a face plate or pro shifted tranny be driven comfortably on the street and not break? I've been researching this (many searches on many sites), and I've been going in circles. I've narrowed it down to hanlon, liberty or promotion. All of those builders seem to have a good rep; but I can't find an answer on face plating on the street. Thanks for any help.

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post #2 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 08:19 PM
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I should be getting my faceplated tko 600 back this week from Liberty. Mine is mainly a streetcar also. I'd say it will take some getting use to but not be that bad. I'm looking forward to it.

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post #3 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 08:53 PM
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Ive driven a faceplated TKO and the faster you shift, the smoother it is. You cannot ease it in gear like a synchro'ed trans.

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post #4 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 09:25 PM
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I wouldn't do it for a mainly street car.I have a faceplated TKO 600 from Promotion and it shifts awesome under power but makes alot of noise on the street driving normal. I race alot so I like it but if I didn't I would take it out.

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post #5 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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After looking some more I am thinking about a astro A-5 (650hp). A t5 would be easier to fit in my car. It seems they shift great upto 7K, and are fully streetable. They are the same price as a liberty face plated TKO600. I am not 100% yet, but it seems like it would be the best option for something that is mainly driven on the street, but can still take a beating at the track.
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post #6 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 10:56 PM
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Astro A5: Great transmission! I had one in my Fox for about a year before I sold the car and loved it. Shifts were smooth. It stood up to 485 RWHP with no problem.

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post #7 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 11:11 PM
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I have an Astro A5 myself and like it...

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post #8 of 46 Old 07-07-2008, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtac View Post
After looking some more I am thinking about a astro A-5 (650hp). A t5 would be easier to fit in my car. It seems they shift great upto 7K, and are fully streetable. They are the same price as a liberty face plated TKO600. I am not 100% yet, but it seems like it would be the best option for something that is mainly driven on the street, but can still take a beating at the track.
if they're the same price,the TKO wins hands down.the only problem anyone has ever had with TKO's are the synchros,and you're getting rid of those.i drive my liberty pro-shifted TKO on the street a lot and can shift gears with hardly any noise at all.you use the same technique as if you were shifting a normal car without using the clutch,except that you use the clutch.
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post #9 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 12:28 AM
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I'm going to be running a tko 600 faceplated by liberty gears ...

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post #10 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 10:09 AM
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if they're the same price,the TKO wins hands down.
Having had both, I disagree. The T-5 is 50 lbs lighter for one thing. Additionally, a face plated T5 shifts smoother than a similarly prepared TKO.

In 2003 my car went through three face plated TKOs in NMRA Pure Street competition. In 2004, one G-force lasted the entire season, and required no freshening afterward, enduring both more horsepower and more RPM than the TKOs had to deal with.

There is the matter of the different first gears. The a-5 is available with a 2.92 first gear, which is well suited to boosted applications, but the tko's steeper 3.35 is preferred for NA usage. We had to raise our launch RPM significantly to compensate for the taller first gear in the G-force.

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post #11 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 10:10 AM
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I have a Tremec 3550 with faceplated 2nd gear and proshifted 3rd and 4th that I just put in. After about the second shift I had learned it "sweet" spot to be able to upshift on the street. I can either double clutch it or wait for the rpms to come down below 1,800 rpms and it will slide right in with no noise at all and you can just ease it in. Downshifting took a little more time getting used to. I would say it took about 30 minutes of driving to figure it out. Downshifting to 3rd is just slamming it in gear and I get a small clunk that way and downshifting to 2nd, I have to blip the throttle slightly and slam it in gear and get a little louder clunk but thats it, no grinding at all. It literally took me about 30 minutes to learn how to do everything with this trans and its great, especially under power. I don't daily drive my car, but I also wouldn't hesitate to drive it at anytime. I would have driven it to work yesterday and today if I hadn't have bent 2 pushrods when I was trying out the new trans.

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post #12 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 10:15 AM
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In 2003 my car went through three face plated TKOs in NMRA Pure Street competition. In 2004, one G-force lasted the entire season, and required no freshening afterward, enduring both more horsepower and more RPM than the TKOs had to deal with.
Steve
Steve, do you mean a G-force transmission (g-101, gf-2000 etc) or a G-force modified T-5? Obviously there is a big difference in cost. If a G-force T-5 is stronger and lighter plus shifts better than a TKO, that sounds almost too good to be true!

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post #13 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 06:37 PM
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Having had both, I disagree. The T-5 is 50 lbs lighter for one thing. Additionally, a face plated T5 shifts smoother than a similarly prepared TKO.

In 2003 my car went through three face plated TKOs in NMRA Pure Street competition. In 2004, one G-force lasted the entire season, and required no freshening afterward, enduring both more horsepower and more RPM than the TKOs had to deal with.

There is the matter of the different first gears. The a-5 is available with a 2.92 first gear, which is well suited to boosted applications, but the tko's steeper 3.35 is preferred for NA usage. We had to raise our launch RPM significantly to compensate for the taller first gear in the G-force.

Steve
thats pretty amazing considering the crazy rpms you guys leave at.ive talked to a few p/s and r/s guys and the consensus has always been just the opposite,several broke t-5's and then a tko that lasted most or all season.what part of the tko have you found to be the weak link?
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post #14 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 06:41 PM
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Some tko 600s have a 2.87 first gear. I know mine does.
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post #15 of 46 Old 07-08-2008, 07:11 PM
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thats pretty amazing considering the crazy rpms you guys leave at.ive talked to a few p/s and r/s guys and the consensus has always been just the opposite,several broke t-5's and then a tko that lasted most or all season.what part of the tko have you found to be the weak link?
Well, regular T-5s aren't going to hold up for certain.

A lot of racers that had bad luck with the G-forces were using the 3.27 (or maybe it was 3.25) first gear and that piece was such a disaster that they quit making it. We never tried it.

Additionally, the wrong clutch will kill anything.

We were early adopters on the G-force deal, and had great luck with it. I heard rumors that some of the later stuff didn't have the correct metallurgical content, but who knows if that's true.

From what I know of the Astro stuff, it's all top notch, and has all the alloy verified and may even use thicker gears than the G-force.

I honestly don't know what parts of the TKOs were the most problematic for us. The first one was Darin's Liberty box. Our first pass in the car it went into 3rd and wouldn't come out. Darin later sold that on his own after having it fixed, so I never learned what was wrong with it. Our Hanlon box was so utterly destroyed that he told us only the case was reusable. To be fair to that transmission, we lost it in New Jersey, two weeks after breaking a bunch of rear end stuff in Joliet. It's likely that the trans was hurt as a side effect of the rear end carnage. Our third one, well, I'm marking that down as assembly error, but who knows.

All I know is breaking stuff sucks, and lifting a transmission that's as heavy as you are into a car while laying in the sand really sucks.

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post #16 of 46 Old 07-09-2008, 01:37 AM
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I have a g-force tranny with the face-tooth engagement. I drive mine on the street NO issues at all. a friend of mine badazzred88gt he drives his car on the street everyday as well. maybe he will chime in.

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post #17 of 46 Old 07-09-2008, 09:59 AM
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Any idea how much it is to faceplate a 3550 and who in Florida can do it?
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post #18 of 46 Old 07-09-2008, 12:08 PM
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Pro Motion in Ft. Lauderdale is where I would go.

I drive my faceplated T5 every day, no problems whatsoever. No double clutching, no "blipping the gas" to match RPMs, etc. Drives just fine, but with a little clunk, no big deal.
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post #19 of 46 Old 07-09-2008, 12:13 PM
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Steve, do you mean a G-force transmission (g-101, gf-2000 etc) or a G-force modified T-5? Obviously there is a big difference in cost. If a G-force T-5 is stronger and lighter plus shifts better than a TKO, that sounds almost too good to be true!
I was talking about the G-force T-5s.

They wouldn't let us run a straight G-force trans in Pure Street. That'd be a different class if they did.

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post #20 of 46 Old 07-09-2008, 11:02 PM
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We were early adopters on the G-force deal, and had great luck with it. I heard rumors that some of the later stuff didn't have the correct metallurgical content, but who knows if that's true.

From what I know of the Astro stuff, it's all top notch, and has all the alloy verified and may even use thicker gears than the G-force.

I was one of the unlucky ones that bought a "later" G force T5. I broke mine on the street, on street tires. I had it fixed and traded it in on an astro A5.

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post #21 of 46 Old 07-13-2008, 10:27 PM
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Hi eveyone...Just installed my faceplated TKO2 today and did alittle street driving...alittle rpm and quick shift to the next gear and its a clunk but no grinding..which after reading this thread seems to be pretty normal..My trans was also done by Liberty gears awhile back...I do however have 1 question...Seems I have (IMO) alot of drive drain slop third ,fourth,fifth..Sounds almost like the drive shaft loose,,but its not and its not in the rear....I can turn the driveshaft in the upper gears(car off) and drive shaft rotates not quite a 1/4 turn from the slop ..This sound normal?Thanks for any input.....

P.S shifts like butter under hard accel....every gear...seems good other than the extra slop in the upper gears.

26 input 31 output...
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post #22 of 46 Old 07-14-2008, 03:28 PM
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Hi eveyone...Just installed my faceplated TKO2 today and did alittle street driving...alittle rpm and quick shift to the next gear and its a clunk but no grinding..which after reading this thread seems to be pretty normal..My trans was also done by Liberty gears awhile back...I do however have 1 question...Seems I have (IMO) alot of drive drain slop third ,fourth,fifth..Sounds almost like the drive shaft loose,,but its not and its not in the rear....I can turn the driveshaft in the upper gears(car off) and drive shaft rotates not quite a 1/4 turn from the slop ..This sound normal?Thanks for any input.....

P.S shifts like butter under hard accel....every gear...seems good other than the extra slop in the upper gears.

26 input 31 output...
thats normal.the teeth on the faceplate are like an inch apart,compared to the stock synchros that are only a few mm's apart.when you drive it on the street,dont let the gears bang back and forth by getting on and off of the gas while in gear.i was told its bad for the lugs.
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post #23 of 46 Old 07-14-2008, 09:30 PM
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thats normal.the teeth on the faceplate are like an inch apart,compared to the stock synchros that are only a few mm's apart.when you drive it on the street,dont let the gears bang back and forth by getting on and off of the gas while in gear.i was told its bad for the lugs.
Thank you very much...I was alittle worried and had hoped it was normal....Other than the excess lash..its a beast...shifts like butter...Good deal...no hard on-off of the gas...gotcha....Thanks again...
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post #24 of 46 Old 07-25-2009, 09:07 PM
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why are the straight cut g force t5 in a different class.

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post #25 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 02:39 AM
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Have driven a Liberty Pro Shifted Doug Nash... nothing sweeter on the track, but I can't imagine it on the street!!!!! The Long shifter doesn't help much either.

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post #26 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 04:57 PM
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If you really drive it alot on the street put a syncronized helical cut astro t5 in it will powershift at 7000 rpm! I recomend ther case if the car is heavy 3300 up. A "SOFT" clutch and propper clutch cable set up and your in buisness!!

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post #27 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 06:22 PM
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post #28 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 06:51 PM
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i heard astro has all of there #### on back order for a long time, true?


also what is the difference between pro shift and face plate?

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post #29 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 07:24 PM
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i heard astro has all of there #### on back order for a long time, true?


also what is the difference between pro shift and face plate?

http://www.libertysgears.com/faceplate-proshift.htm
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post #30 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 10:17 PM
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If you really drive it alot on the street put a syncronized helical cut astro t5 in it will powershift at 7000 rpm! I recomend ther case if the car is heavy 3300 up. A "SOFT" clutch and propper clutch cable set up and your in buisness!!
You are in the minority saying a syncro'd trans will shift at 7000. Do you do it in your car?
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post #31 of 46 Old 07-26-2009, 10:52 PM
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Yes my old school 3550 will shift at 6800 and has never been opened up! Me and my buddie have been testing t5 and tremecs in diff applications for years. His name is dwain barrabarie he ran pure street for years we test and share knowledge. We just put one of those sync t5s behind a 398ci winds 6800 rpm no prob the trick is in the clutch cable set up and of course the driver! The minority you speak of is the small group of stick drivers that take the time to set the whole set up up correctly and are very cordinated. Most people buy the parts and dont know how to set it up properly and or just cant time ther feet and right hand and then blame the trans b/c it wont shift properly.

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post #32 of 46 Old 07-27-2009, 01:49 AM
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I'll stick with my faceplated, lol. That way there is NO question whether or not everything is properly setup, lol.
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post #33 of 46 Old 07-27-2009, 03:28 AM
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Yes my old school 3550 will shift at 6800 and has never been opened up! Me and my buddie have been testing t5 and tremecs in diff applications for years. His name is dwain barrabarie he ran pure street for years we test and share knowledge. We just put one of those sync t5s behind a 398ci winds 6800 rpm no prob the trick is in the clutch cable set up and of course the driver! The minority you speak of is the small group of stick drivers that take the time to set the whole set up up correctly and are very cordinated. Most people buy the parts and dont know how to set it up properly and or just cant time ther feet and right hand and then blame the trans b/c it wont shift properly.
i remember talking to dwayne at wfc one year.i couldnt believe how fast he was going with some tiny parts and a motorsport rpm extender.he still have that teal notch?
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post #34 of 46 Old 07-27-2009, 02:44 PM
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Yes my old school 3550 will shift at 6800 and has never been opened up! Me and my buddie have been testing t5 and tremecs in diff applications for years. His name is dwain barrabarie he ran pure street for years we test and share knowledge. We just put one of those sync t5s behind a 398ci winds 6800 rpm no prob the trick is in the clutch cable set up and of course the driver! The minority you speak of is the small group of stick drivers that take the time to set the whole set up up correctly and are very cordinated. Most people buy the parts and dont know how to set it up properly and or just cant time ther feet and right hand and then blame the trans b/c it wont shift properly.
+1. Although I have a T45 with syncros I still zing it up to 7100 and it shifts fine. I rebuilt mine (twisted input shaft) and lost my hand/foot timing on the 2-3 shift due to the car being down 6 months. Its coming back but I need more practice. Driver has a lot to do with it.

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post #35 of 46 Old 07-27-2009, 03:00 PM
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the only thing about a sycronized trans its a hit or miss deal on the gear change. With a trans with dogrings/facetooth engagements its goin into gear!!! I rather have a trans thats goin into gear than one that you never know if it will go into gear, then you over rev the motor and possible drop a valve, then you have a major catastrophe

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