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post #1 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Slow To Return To Idle Speed

Hi, Hope someone on this board can help. I have a 1994 Cobra
that is slow to return to idle speed. When it does return to idle speed the motor idles fine. It just seems like it takes too long to return to the set idle speed. It always returns to correct speed.
This is the first mustang with EFI that I have owned so it may be
possible that this is just the nature of this car and motor. Fuel
pressure is set to 39 and base timing is set to 10 degrees. I have not checked throttle position sensor setting yet. Idle speed is set to 875 RPM.

Thanks,
Buck


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post #2 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 07:09 PM
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After revving it, how low does it go before it starts to slow before it hits idle? For example, I'll rev mine, and it'll hang at 1100 for a second or two before settling down at 800.


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post #3 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkMesa8
After revving it, how low does it go before it starts to slow before it hits idle? For example, I'll rev mine, and it'll hang at 1100 for a second or two before settling down at 800.
Thanks for reply DarkMesa8. I really haven't noticed but I will check it tomorrow when I get home from work and see.

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post #4 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 08:58 PM
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How old are your ACT and ECT sensor's? A bad ACT or ECT will definitely cause idle problems. A bad sensor will also not neccesarily throw a code. (the sensor voltage output is within spec, just very lazy) If the sensor's are original, they probably need to be replaced.

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post #5 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver85TC
How old are your ACT and ECT sensor's? A bad ACT or ECT will definitely cause idle problems. A bad sensor will also not neccesarily throw a code. (the sensor voltage output is within spec, just very lazy) If the sensor's are original, they probably need to be replaced.
Silver85TC, Thanks for the reply. I will change them both because
I don't know how old they are. The car has 84,000 miles on it so they may be the original ones. Should motor return to idle speed as soon as you let up on gas petal?

Thanks again,
Buck

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post #6 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 09:49 PM
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throttle postion sensor(TPS)

93 Cobra
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post #7 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 95CobraofDeath
throttle postion sensor(TPS)
95cobraofdeath, Thanks. What should tps voltage be at idle?

Buck

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post #8 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buck Armitage
95cobraofdeath, Thanks. What should tps voltage be at idle?

Buck
No probs man...

should be at .98

Your TPS is NOT REALLY adjustable....it should be set correct by the computer. Although there are manual ways to tweak it.

Take of the negative on the battery..replace the TPS...put negative back on...and you should be set.

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Last edited by 95CobraofDeath; 04-11-2004 at 10:35 PM.
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post #9 of 45 Old 04-11-2004, 11:39 PM
 
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I have the same thing going on with mine. Just moved up to a 65mm TB and as soon as I let off on the gas - no matter at idle or 3000 RPMs - my idle 'hangs' at around 1200 RPMs for 7.5 seconds and slowly drops to normal idle. I am baffled too. My car is idleing at around 750 RPMs - and runs great when driving ... just the idle hangs!

Replacing all the sensors is the key here?
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post #10 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 09:27 AM
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I had the same problem. Heres why... I don't think the butterfly on your throttlebody is going all the way closed. Do you also have idle thats a bit rough (just a bit of surging)? Pull back your set screw on the tb a little. Mine stopped doing that after I pulled the screw back. Now my tb sticks just a bit now (bbk :/ ). But idles awesome and doesnt hang like your describing.


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post #11 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 09:41 AM
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Its not the TPS, its the IAC (idle air control) and most of it is normal. The 94-95's had a really long "dashpot decrememt" which can be changed with a tweecer/tuner. Ford uses it for emissions and for idle stability. It is designed to hold the idle up to clean out excess fuel and to reduce any possiblity of surge. You can clean out your IAC or buy a new one and that may help but its not going to do much.

I used my eec tuner and just copied the dashpot function from a fox (A9L) and pasted it into my J4J1 (cobra) and it works awesome, the idle returns nice and snappy just like the older cars did.

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post #12 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:39 AM
 
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SSKILLER .... that's exactly what I am looking for! The snappy, fast, responsive idle like the older cars!! I am gonna clean out my IAC tonight and see if that helps any. The butterfly is nice and smooth, and the TB bore is nice and clean as well. No sticking butterfly at all. The idle is nice and smooth with no surging (when it finally gets there!) - so I have to agree that it's in the IAC more than anything. Thanks man! Good advice!
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post #13 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 11:50 AM
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95getee- Please note that I got my dashpot to "snap" back by using the EEC Tuner... I didnt just clean the IAC to achieve that. It may help in your case, but I don't think its going to get it like you want it, thats just something that us 94-95 guys have to deal with. What you have to do is get in a tweecer/eec tuner and look for the "dashpot decrement" and you can lower the values so that the IAC snaps shut faster instead of closing really slow like it does stock. As a side note- I have heard of some guys unhooking the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) on the trans and this got rid of their idle "hang" as well, but I have never tried this personally.

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post #14 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 12:50 PM
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Sometimes this helps: Adjust the throttle set screw to where it just touches the throttle linkage(zero lash). Then adjust the idle air screw 2 turns from fully closed(turn it all the way in clockwise until it stops, then back it out couterclockwise 2 full turns.

Unhook the battery for awhile to clear the keep alive memory.

Last edited by 94cobra2615; 04-12-2004 at 12:58 PM.
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post #15 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by SSKiller
Its not the TPS, its the IAC (idle air control) and most of it is normal. The 94-95's had a really long "dashpot decrememt" which can be changed with a tweecer/tuner. Ford uses it for emissions and for idle stability. It is designed to hold the idle up to clean out excess fuel and to reduce any possiblity of surge. You can clean out your IAC or buy a new one and that may help but its not going to do much.

I used my eec tuner and just copied the dashpot function from a fox (A9L) and pasted it into my J4J1 (cobra) and it works awesome, the idle returns nice and snappy just like the older cars did.
SSKiller, Thanks very much for the info. Know anyone with a eec
tuner for sale? When I find one I will e-mail you back for exact
instructions of how to do mine if you don't mind. My computer is a J4J1 also. Thanks again.

Buck

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post #16 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 07:28 PM
 
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SSKILLER ... yea, I totally knew what you meant. When re-read what I wrote, I did make it sound like that would cure it -- but I knew what you meant! Anyway ... I swapped out my 65mm TB's IAC for the one out of my 60mm TB, cleaned it and - it runs correctly again.

Has anyone adjusted the spring inside of the IAC by turning the hex socket bolt under all that white silicone?? Would that change the tension of the spring for the dashpot and make it close quicker? Just wondering if anyone has messed with it.

I agree Buck... an EEC tuner would be nice, but with my mods - are they worth it? Thanks for the help everyone!
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post #17 of 45 Old 04-12-2004, 09:21 PM
 
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I posted this in another tread about the TPS.

Quote:
As far as the TPS goes. If you didn't buy one for a sn car it won't fit right. The after market one's run the same as the ford tps's. The TPS is just a variable resistor, so if you want to check if for function, place a DMM (digital multi meter) between pin one and two in resistance mode; OHMs. I beleive pin 2 is GND. Then rotate the internal switch and watch the DMM, if you change reistance smoothly then assume the TPS is not the problem.

If the test above turns out "good" you can check the volatage by connecting everything and measuring voltage off the same pins. I did this by making jumpers for the cable and percing the jumpers with my meter leads. Do this test off the same pins above and only with the key in the on position.

With the key on rotate the throttle and see how the voltage responds. This is where the .98 Vdc comes into play. You will notice that as you open the throttle the voltage will increase. If you have the hard stop open to much the voltage will sit higher then say 1.2. If you start around 1 Vdc and at WOT you are around 5 Vdc without going back to 0 Vdc or fluctuating as the throttle opens, mark the tps "good"....

Hope this helps.
I had a similar problem with the decay after I drilled a hole in my throttle plate.. Long story.. My idle was great but it would hang around 1700 RPM for about 8 secs.

I tryed everything to fix this but it was until I got the tweecer when it went away. If I knew what the tweecer could do it would have been my first modd.

Also, you can close the trottle plate quicker by replacing the throttle linkage spring with one that has more tention, but it will also increase the presure it will take to open the throttle. There are always give an takes until you tell the ECU what to do.

Just my 2 Cents/

Last edited by rpfuror; 04-12-2004 at 09:25 PM.
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post #18 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
I have the same thing going on with mine. Just moved up to a 65mm TB and as soon as I let off on the gas - no matter at idle or 3000 RPMs - my idle 'hangs' at around 1200 RPMs for 7.5 seconds and slowly drops to normal idle. I am baffled too. My car is idleing at around 750 RPMs - and runs great when driving ... just the idle hangs!
Guys, my 95 GT did EXACTLY the same thing.....I cleaned the MAF, cleaned IAC, new plugs, cap and wires, unplugged batt to reset ECU and the idle would still hang @1200+ RPM at times. I then changed both ACT and ECT sensors and unplugged battery to reset ECU. My car now idles solid at 700 RPM and doesn't hang at all around 1000-1200 like it used to.
In summary....change your sensors if they are old! If the sensors aren't working correctly, then using an eec tuner or tweeker is just masking the problem.

Quote:
Should motor return to idle speed as soon as you let up on gas petal?
Not instantly, the RPM's should drop to 700-750 RPM within a second or two after you come to a complete stop. If the car is still moving, it should drop to 1000ish relatively slowly(the speed sensor assists with this). You don't want the rpm's to instantly drop to 750 between shifts when the car is moving (especially when accelerating).....that would be very jerky!!!!

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post #19 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 08:03 AM
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Good point there too, the ECT and ACT sensors are way more important than what many think. I was able to increase the driveability by quite a lot on my car by changing these sensors, as mine were all original with almost 100k. But It still had that annoying idle hang with everything new, and I wasnt able to fix it until I got the EEC Tuner...

You guys that want more info, just do a search on "EEC Tuner" or whatever, I think you still can find them at www.performanceunlimited.com

Feel free to email me guys if you have any questions, I'd be glad to help you out if I can.

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post #20 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 09:55 AM
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I did the A9L/ PIH swap on my 94 cobra along with a FRPP 65mm TB and like yours, the idle hangs for a few seconds when you come to a stop and then drops to 700 or so. I figured it might be a good thing if you install a cam, so the engine might be less prone to die or surge at idle since it doesn't drop to idle so quick.

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #21 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 02:49 PM
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my car does this pretty bad too, but what i find strangest about it all is when it likes to do it most. If I take my car out of gear when I'm cruising, like before I break and come to a stoplight, then the idle will hang up there around 12-1300 until I come to a complete stop, then I wait 3 or 4 seconds and it comes down. I haven't really tried to fix it or do anything about it yet. I figured that I would just wait until i get it tuned and see what that does to it. Good to see that I'm not the only one experiencing this.
-Nate

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post #22 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 02:58 PM
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Nate, that is totally normal when the car is moving for the idle to hang. The car is designed to do that, when it has a signal from the VSS it keeps the idle up until a certain MPH is reached (5mph I think) before it lets the idle come down. I think this was done to prevent any chances of stall or surge upon decel as well as to burn off extra fuel that is in the cylinders after a hard run..

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post #23 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 04:13 PM
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I don't mind mine doing it, If it did it with an automatic, it would be a bummer, but with a stick it ain't bad. I just pretend it is standard on Ultra-High Performance motors! I just tell people that this motor is so mean, even when you let off of the gas, it still wants to go fast! I just stick my head out the window at every stop sign and Yell- "Down Boy! Down!"

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #24 of 45 Old 04-13-2004, 08:11 PM
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Thats one way of looking at it!
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post #25 of 45 Old 04-14-2004, 10:46 AM
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Cut the VSS signal to the EEC. Problem solved when coming to a stop light.
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post #26 of 45 Old 04-14-2004, 05:43 PM
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What does VSS stand for? I assume it has nothing to do with the 94-95 computer itself, since mine does it and I am using a A9L "fox" computer. I have also heard about the hanging idle issue from the Fox body guys as well.

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #27 of 45 Old 04-14-2004, 05:51 PM
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The VSS is the vehicle speed sensor... it tells the EEC that your are moving and it makes the car idle up for reduced stalling. It is the sensor that goes in the tail housing of your trans where the speedo gear is.

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post #28 of 45 Old 04-14-2004, 07:16 PM
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SS-Killer, Thanks fo the VSS description. There are so many things on these cars that use initials, it's hard to know what they all stand for. I was 40 years old before I knew what KFC stood for!

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #29 of 45 Old 04-15-2004, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by XSPOWER
I was 40 years old before I knew what KFC stood for!


If you have the symptoms exactly like purple95.0 (which is what the computer is set up to do stock) and dont like it, cutting the VSS will stop the 1200 rpm idle hang that occurs while rolling.

You may also want to check for vacuum leaks. The easiest way to check is to buy a cheap can of Carb cleaner and start spraying stuff in the engine bay. If the rpm's go up, there is a vacuum leak. This is the first thing I check on cars with really high hanging idles.

Make sure the throttle body is set up correctly as well (as I explained above)
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post #30 of 45 Old 04-15-2004, 07:23 AM
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I still dont know what the hell KFC stands for...

The new commercial says "kitchen fresh chicken" but I thought it was "Kentucky Fried Chicken"?...

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post #31 of 45 Old 04-15-2004, 11:12 AM
 
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I can't believe you guys, wait actually I can. Do you not realize that the VSS signal does more than affect idle? And drilling holes in the butterfly, all old school techniques that can be solved elsewhere now.

-J

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post #32 of 45 Old 04-15-2004, 11:22 AM
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I know that it affects way more than idle, for one thing it controls the speedometer in the 94-up cars... But for those guys that have done the PIH swap it shouldn't affect much.

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post #33 of 45 Old 04-15-2004, 01:15 PM
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Lidio Iacobelli has cut it on cars that he has tuned.

I know all about the VSS. I just suggested if the stock settings bother you that much that you can cut the VSS signal right before it goes into the EEC.

FWIW, mine is not cut. My tweecer works nicely.
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post #34 of 45 Old 04-16-2004, 07:32 PM
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I have the PIH and a A9L on my 94 and it still has the hanging idle for a second or two, nothing bad though. As for all these little codes like EGR, VSS, ACT, IAC etc. Be Careful! I dated a girl once that told me she had a "STD". I asked her if I could have it. I thought she meant a "Short Tailed Dog". Just Kiddin!

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post #35 of 45 Old 04-16-2004, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 94cobra2615
Lidio Iacobelli has cut it on cars that he has tuned.
And? He did not write the "Bible" on tuning.

Basically it is a "hack" for fixing something that can be fixed the right way.

-J
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