Starting 5.4l Lightning motor swap into 95 lightning for customer, INFO inside - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-02-2007, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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Starting 5.4l Lightning motor swap into 95 lightning for customer, INFO inside

Well I am doing something a little out of my norm for a customer....

I dont normally work on stuff on like this as I have a endless supply of ls1 conversions and ls1 work etc that I stick to in general (bread and butter)...
Ive done a ton of mustang stuff in the past and alot of the bolt ons and tunes on newer lightnings...

Customer wants a 99-04 Lightning supercharged 5.4l motor in his 95 lightning...

I am going to pick up a wrecked newer lightning that I've arranged and tear out its guts for the donor.


Anyone have a clue what I am in for on the install? The motor mounts, tranny mount etc is no big deal as I can fabricate whatever I need to get it bolted in place..

I am just concerned with the fuel system as I hear they run a 'voltage pressure changing setup" that doesnt work like a standard setup... I may have to plumb the newer lightning tank into the truck and run the factory fuel system.


My concern: Wiring harness/computer setup Anyone have a clue what I am in for on trying get the harness setup right for this thing? Any conversion harnesses available to make it plugn'play? [/b]


90 Mustang LX, 23k orig miles. Factory mint in/out. LSx Single Turbo S-91.5mm, Vasco th400, chance converter, Strange 8.8". 2700lb,
89 Notchback - Stock shortblock 88k mile LS1, th350, 3.73/28" M&H - 8.8", 9.9 @ 144 - 2850 raceweight.
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-02-2007, 11:24 AM
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I don't know of any conversion harnesses. Might want to check on some of the lightning boards-www.nloc.net is a good one. This is the first 5.4 into an older lightning that I've heard of.

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post #3 of 30 Old 05-02-2007, 05:31 PM
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No one on the NLOC has done it. The swap does not make sense. You are taking a weaker, smaller CI engine and swapping it in place of a better, easier to work on engine. Then there are all of the aftermarket parts that the 351W has. You would be better off to put a blower on the 351. Money and performance wise, the swap does not make sense. You will be the first that I know of to attempt it. It has been brought up a couple of times on the NLOC, but nobody has done it because of the above reasons.

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post #4 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 11:53 AM
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Guess that will teach you to try to do something original and different and then come here for help, ehh? Next time try to not be so unique with your ideas. We don't take kindly to your kind.

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post #5 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 12:10 PM
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Guess that will teach you to try to do something original and different and then come here for help, ehh? Next time try to not be so unique with your ideas. We don't take kindly to your kind.
Yeah really. gn87gt2000-Who pissed in your wheaties? The guy is doing it for a customer. I guess you skipped over that part. No wonder I don't come on here for tech support. A 5.4 blower motor weaker-yeah okay what ever.
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post #6 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor357 View Post
A 5.4 blower motor weaker-yeah okay what ever.

Ummm...it is..

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post #7 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gn87gt2000 View Post
No one on the NLOC has done it. The swap does not make sense. You are taking a weaker, smaller CI engine and swapping it in place of a better, easier to work on engine. Then there are all of the aftermarket parts that the 351W has. You would be better off to put a blower on the 351. Money and performance wise, the swap does not make sense. You will be the first that I know of to attempt it. It has been brought up a couple of times on the NLOC, but nobody has done it because of the above reasons.
It makes perfect sense to me. Guy shows up and says "Here's $10k and my lightning, I want it turn key with a new lightning motor" ... Me: "Ok, I can do it"..


End of reasoning for me.

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89 Notchback - Stock shortblock 88k mile LS1, th350, 3.73/28" M&H - 8.8", 9.9 @ 144 - 2850 raceweight.
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post #8 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 07:22 PM
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Can you people not read? Please show me what I said to deserve these kind of responses. It was mentioned to go over to the NLOC about for info on this swap. I let him know there is no info on it over there and the reasons why.

As far as the 5.4 being weaker than the 351W, I hate to tell you, but it is. I did not say the the Gen 2 Lightning engine did not make more power than a stock Gen 1 engine, I said it is internally weaker. I also said you would be better off supercharging the 351W.

I can understand why you are wanting to do it, you are being paid to. I was just explaining why it has not been done yet on the NLOC. You people need to chill out. Bunch of internet tough guys.

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Last edited by gn87gt2000; 05-03-2007 at 07:26 PM.
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post #9 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 08:40 PM
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Does he only want the motor and trans swapped? Transmissions are basically the same. engine would require custom mounts obviously. I actually have seen a guy put a 4.6 2v w/ 5speed in the same body style truck the gen1 L's are. it took the place of a 300ci I6 though, he built spacers for the motor mounts. I'm sure you could do the same, use the inline6 mounts and spacers, dunno if they are different than the v8 mounts. Hardest part would be the fuel system and wiring. the Gen1 uses eec4 and the gen2 uses obd2/eec5. There have been a couple guys that I know on NLOC that have converted their gen1 to obd2, one runs a shop (LaSota Racing) and the other had a harness built i believe to drop in. you have all the wiring, I would swap all the engine harness/pcm and leave the body harness. It would need a chip or such to turn off PATS. The instrument cluster is totally different, not sure how you would work that out. Well I guess the guys that changed to OBD2 had no problems with their stock clusters so that would work.

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post #10 of 30 Old 05-03-2007, 09:11 PM
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You are definately going to have your work cut out for you . I am planning to do the same thing with a 1969 F100 I have . I bought a wrecked 02 Lightning and kept all the drivetrain out of it to install in the 69 . I have not gotten around to doing it but will someday .

post #11 of 30 Old 05-04-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
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Ummm...it is..
You came across pretty harsh in your first post that's why I responded like I did. No harm no foul. I guess I can see where the 351w is internally stronger but isn't there a lot of gen2 Lightnings running in the 12's/11's without and internal mods? I do have a 351w in a mustang and have run hight tens on stock rods,crank & block. When do you to do internal mods to the 5.4. Just curious because I want to do a future project using a 5.4 in a '01 f150.
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post #12 of 30 Old 05-04-2007, 09:16 PM
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I don't see where I came across harsh, but ok, maybe I am missing it. I am not here to argue, or be mean to others. I want to help and get help.

I know the Gen 2 engine can be taken a long way, and can be built up. Just think of what that money can do with the 351W that is already in there.

I am interested in seeing if this can be done with $10K. If so, I think it will take all of that 10K, especially when paying someone to do it for you, like your customer is.

As for the dash info, the gauges will work. They do not go through the eec. The only problem may be the speedo. It gets it signal from the vss. I am not sure if the newer trans gives off the same signal.

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post #13 of 30 Old 05-04-2007, 09:49 PM
 
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Aren't the modular blocks stronger than the roller 351w block?
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post #14 of 30 Old 05-04-2007, 11:28 PM
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The VSS reading comes from an exciter ring inside the rear differential, is not gear driving from the transmission

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post #15 of 30 Old 05-05-2007, 05:58 AM
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The VSS reading comes from an exciter ring inside the rear differential, is not gear driving from the transmission


I knew that. Thanks for the correction. I don't know what vehicle I was thinking of there. Anyway, the rest of the gauges will work. If you go to the NLOC and do a search under the Gen 1 section for carbed vehicles, some of the info may help you. As mentioned one or two have done the OBD2 switch, but I don't think they posted much info on it.

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post #16 of 30 Old 05-05-2007, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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I think to run the factory gauges using the factory 1st gen senders (oil, water, fuel). Tach wont be a problem with a tach adapter or a pcm wire etc..

The only thing will be adapting the speedometer to work with it....I think I can figure something out.

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post #17 of 30 Old 05-06-2007, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AidanN20 View Post
I think to run the factory gauges using the factory 1st gen senders (oil, water, fuel). Tach wont be a problem with a tach adapter or a pcm wire etc..

The only thing will be adapting the speedometer to work with it....I think I can figure something out.

Doesn't that just run off the VSS?


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post #18 of 30 Old 05-08-2007, 11:16 AM
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Aren't the modular blocks stronger than the roller 351w block?
The block itself is stronger yes. I dont see why would want to take out the 351w and slap in the 5.4L. Seems like it would make better since to build the 351w up. If all they want is a blown Lightning, doesnt KB make a blower for the 351?

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post #19 of 30 Old 05-17-2007, 02:53 AM
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There IS someone who has done this conversion before and I believe they ran into issues with the i-beam front suspension vs. the IFS of newer trucks. I'll try to dig up the thread...

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post #20 of 30 Old 05-17-2007, 03:21 AM
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Here's a 92-96 body transplanted onto a 99+ frame: http://nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=149660

Here's a good thread that hashes out the pro's and con's of the swap (mostly con's): http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthre...ht=gen+2+motor

I'd use that money to slap on a Pickrel turbo setup OR do a BBF conversion. BBF would be sooo sweet and relatively simple. $10,000 can make a real screamer if he stays with that Windsor...

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post #21 of 30 Old 05-17-2007, 11:39 PM
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The 4.6L Mustang computer/wiring harness will work with the 5.4L engine if the 4.6 fuel setup works better for you in the conversion... May or may not help, atleast good to know.

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post #22 of 30 Old 05-23-2007, 10:59 PM
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Regardless of whether or not it makes sense, regardless of the ease of modifying a 351W, I still think it's an interesting idea. I have previously owned a 1993 Lightning. I would never do such a conversion, but I think it will be interesting to see what goes on, with such a swap. Keep us updated, please.

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post #23 of 30 Old 05-24-2007, 10:24 AM
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Incase everyone forgot MM&FF did a Lightning engine in a 86 Mustang..so it most def. can be done. There are ways around the fuel system and everything else. As far as the 5.4 strengths goes...who cares. Not like it cant be built up. But figure even with minor bolt on's...a Gen1 Lightning is AT LEAST 500lbs lighter and a Gen2...add a ported blower,4lb lower and a couple other bolt-ons and some mild suspension work at it should be an easy low 12 sec truck with a hook. Also Homer302...what a ##### thing to say...im hoping since you havent chimed back in you were just being sarcastis.

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post #24 of 30 Old 05-24-2007, 01:55 PM
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MM&FF did a Lightning engine in a 86 Mustang..so it most def. can be done.
Fuel system will be relatively straight foward, but like I said, the big issue will most likely be motor fitment. With the stock front suspension in place, I think the blower will be hanging out like the Mad Max Interceptor. Normally, I'd think that was cool. In this case, I think the blower inlet and intake tube look like a$$ when they're in plain view. Frightning (the MMFF car) was awesome, but the hood looked like junk. Just my opinion.

Whatever happens with this project, it'll still be cool just for the wow factor.

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post #25 of 30 Old 05-24-2007, 04:01 PM
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I think with a 2-3in cowl fitment and clearence wont issue..theres a lot of room under the hood of a gen1 Lightning. Ive seen 460's with KB's fit under a stock hood. Even if he wanted he could a KB or Whipple.

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post #26 of 30 Old 05-30-2007, 10:38 PM
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Kudos to a new breed of Lightning...You may want to check with Ryan at fordfuelinjection.com for harness info. He is very knowledeable about the 2 systems. I think you can add an inline and a 2 pump trick and get all the fuel pressure you'll ever need for the 5.4. Tranny's are the same on the outside, so you'll have no trouble there from there back. The 8.8 will handle all the extra tq in stock form with no problem, although a set of rancho style traction bars may be needed to tone down the wheel hop. I've heard that the new speedometer is hooked into the computer, so there will have to be something done about that.

Good Luck and keep us posted!
David

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post #27 of 30 Old 05-30-2007, 11:40 PM
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Kudos to a new breed of Lightning...You may want to check with Ryan at fordfuelinjection.com for harness info.
Good Luck and keep us posted!
David
I agree. I seriously doubt I'd ever do the same thing, if I had the money, but it is very cool to see someone else doing this swap. Take plenty of pics, if you wouldn't mind, and keep us updated.

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post #28 of 30 Old 06-09-2007, 01:02 AM
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though no one has posted on this topic lately... i found this and thought it could be helpful...
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=238128
4.6 engine swap & turbo into a '95 F150 inline 6

hope it helps if anyone reads this

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post #29 of 30 Old 06-09-2007, 06:27 PM
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I want to see a worked 6.0 TDI Diesel put into a 92-96 bronco/f150.

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post #30 of 30 Old 06-10-2007, 12:30 AM
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Send me the Lightning EGR spacer off that 351 if its stock

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