Speed Density Limitations? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Speed Density Limitations?

I have a friend that has a 1995 f150, he has the 351w in it but its not a lightning. Basically I am trying to find some information about what you guys have done to your trucks with basically bolt ons and such. Also is it really worth the money to switch over to the maf setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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post #2 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 06:52 PM
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The main thing is the cam. You can do heads, intake, exhaust, supercharger. All the normal stuff. As for a cam you need to keep the lobe seperation 114 or more, and keep the duration at no more then 220 degrees. It can handle a lot of lift. It will not handle a cam with a lope. SD needs a good vacuum signal to idle good.


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post #3 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 07:45 PM
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a 99 f-150 should be mass air to begein with, someone correct me if i'm wrong pleas
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 08:04 PM
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He said a 95. I am not sure if a 95 is mass air or not. I know the Lightning wasn't, but I am not sure about the F150.

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post #5 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 08:27 PM
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I just looked it up, and some 95's had mass air, others didn't. It looks like it was that way with all three engines that year.

'94 Lightning 383ci w/Vortech S-Trim +too much to fit in the sig.
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-09-2005, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gn87gt2000
He said a 95. I am not sure if a 95 is mass air or not. I know the Lightning wasn't, but I am not sure about the F150.
i worry about myself sometimes.......
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-10-2005, 07:50 PM
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Although you can buy "piggy back" controllers to adjust timing and fuel curves for the Speed Density ECU, gn87gt200 is on target about the cam. High dollar controllers have the ability to chose throttle position over MAP signal. If Your truck has the E40D automatic transmission the conversion to MAF is more difficult and costly. If it has an AOD or standard tranny, the cost for the conversion to MAF from Ford is about what the PMS "piggy back" unit would cost. However, the PMS unit does allow you experiment w/your ride if you feel qualified.
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-10-2005, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the info guys. He said that his truck is sd, I can't confirm because he is in minnesota and I'm in AZ. Anyways, what upper and lower would you guys recommend for him? his truck is lifted with 33's which I know you all don't care about but he would like to increase the torque down low so pulling things is easier. Would the lightning piece be good for him or would the gt-40 or cobra work too?

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post #9 of 20 Old 10-10-2005, 11:36 PM
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I know Edelbrock makes a truck intake that will be a direct bolt in. If I remeber right it has the bigger ports like the 302 truck intakes have. I am running a comp xe 264hr and gt 40 heads in my 88 bronco. I never felt a real substantial gain low end torque. I dont know if that is from the cam or the fact I am pushing a 5,000lb pig with a 302.
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 01:34 AM
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351W trucks were SD until the OBDII switch in '96. Trust me, been bumping walls on this one researching my hauler.

I have a K&N, Timing is bumped to 12 degrees, Hedman shorty hedders, and a custom Flowmaster exhaust with a Delta-Flow 40 series 'flow. Not sure on power gain, but I've picked up 2 MPG mostly from the K&N and exhaust of course.

I'm planning to go electric fan, GT-40's off my Cobra, my old Cobra cam, the Eddy intake/TB, and finish the exhaust. I may either do a B10O MAF conversion or maybe just TwEECer it.

With my couple of bolt-ons I kept door-door with an '04 F-150 Ext. Cab FX4 with the 5.4 3 valve the other day. It's a buddy of mine, we ran trucks out of boredom while the car was in pieces....

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post #11 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 09:14 AM
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My truck is a F250 4x4 XLT w/351W or 5.8L. I have JBA stainless ceramic shorty headers w/3" stainless exhaust. K&N filter, stock lower and upper intake but w/a 1" phenolic spacer between lower and upper intake. This spacer accounts for some increase in low end torque. I might add that this lower intake is almost identical to my Holley systemax lower intake on my 1988 notch. If the lower intake has rectangular ports that match to the upper you have a very good intake. MSD 6AL ignition controller w/TFI Blaster coil.
This ignition controler accounts for about 1mpg gain and great throttle response. The E40D tranny has been recently rebuilt w/shift kit installed to firm up the shifts. If his tranny is a slush box, firm up the shifts get away from the factory soft shifts. Heads are the limiting factor on my truck, and when $$ available I'll go w/AFR 165's and a Comp Xtreme cam. It'll be torque monster then.
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Sweet thanks again. I know that I already asked this but, would the cobra intake or gt-40 fit on there? I know that the gt-40 is more of a top end piece but just wondering. thanks

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post #13 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 11:25 AM
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If your friend does consider a change to mass air here is another great option for converting his 351 to Ford EEC-IV mass air that includes intake, custom TB, MAF, etc. (and all sensors). Its a relatively new product that is really taking off. (Full page ad in latest Hot Rod Mag). http://www.mass-floefi.com/ (a friend of mine developed the product/owns the company)


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(2200 lbs) '89 5.0 driveline: 306 EFI, Performer Heads, Scorpion RR, FTI cam, GT40 Intake (Tmoss ported lower), 65mm TB/EGR, PMAS 80mm, FRPP 30lb, 255lph, shortys, stock BE, T5/Pro5.0, '88 t-bird TC 8.8 w/3.73s/disc.
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post #14 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 01:26 PM
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www.thunderbolt-motorsports.com sells a piggyback E4OD controller/MAF conversion kit for these trucks, but it's pricey too.

Edit-Correction the conversion is actually made by IST, www.mass-air.com they have some pretty cool stuff.

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post #15 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 02:45 PM
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One of the best intakes is the GT40. Up to 6000rpm or so it is about the best for a 351. It has good low end torque, and breathes good in the upper rpm's. Most other intakes will cost you low end, which you don't want with a heavy truck. Most Lightning guys stay with it until they go stroker, or a big supercharger/ turbo.

I would not go with mass air. Do I wish the Lightnings came with it? Yes. Would I spend the money on it? No. There is no reason to unless you get wild with your combination.

'94 Lightning 383ci w/Vortech S-Trim +too much to fit in the sig.

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post #16 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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thanks again everyone. I will let know about the intake and everthing else. What sucks for him is that if he wanted to put some taller gears in it he would have to do the front and the rear. Gotta love having one axle.

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 07:39 PM
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You have to remember you can't spec a 351w comparable to a 5.0 when it comes to cams. The 351W could handle more duration than a 5.0. People undercam 351W all the time assuming it will react the same as a 5.0. If you want to really learn about SD you need to over to www.50tech.com There are people over there running SD with 347 and 393 strokers. Most the cams are 114 for a 5.0, but for a 5.8 you have some more fill time you could easily run 112. You already have mass amounts of torque.

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post #18 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrew
You have to remember you can't spec a 351w comparable to a 5.0 when it comes to cams. The 351W could handle more duration than a 5.0. People undercam 351W all the time assuming it will react the same as a 5.0. If you want to really learn about SD you need to over to www.50tech.com There are people over there running SD with 347 and 393 strokers. Most the cams are 114 for a 5.0, but for a 5.8 you have some more fill time you could easily run 112. You already have mass amounts of torque.
I disagree about a SD 351 being able to run 112. If you drop the vacuum signal, SD will not handle it. If you go under 114, and over 220 duration, you are asking for a bad running truck. Even with a Tweecer you can't adjust for a cam that lowers the vacuum signal much. Go over to www.nloc.net. On the forums you can learn all about 351W with SD from the Gen 1 Lightning guys. They have tried all different cams, off the shelf and custom.

'94 Lightning 383ci w/Vortech S-Trim +too much to fit in the sig.

Last edited by gn87gt2000; 10-11-2005 at 08:00 PM.
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-11-2005, 08:38 PM
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Gotta love bench racing. As for SD and big cams gn87gt200 is'nt far off. However, if you want to spend big dollars on efi controllers like Motec and others the cam and lack of a good MAP reference is not an issue in speed density since these controllers will reference TP (throttle position)not MAP to correct for radical cams. Tweecer is just one of many systems. EPEC'S are still out there and these were used to tune formula one cars of speed density nature, the Anderson PMS is also available to tune MAF and SD systems, etc.. The real question should be goals and budget. Will the gt 40 intake fit and work? I can't say for sure (never did it) but before I drop coin on another intake I'd upgrade the week link first which is poor flowing stock heads. Granted you spend twice the amount for heads as you would for the intake but the results are remarkable. The route I took w/my 88 notch was intake then heads and I can tell when I switched back to the stock intake for giggles the heads made the biggest difference of the line and through the traps.
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-02-2005, 06:55 PM
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I agree, don't think about going under 114* with SD. You'll be sorry! Also, If you think about it, to get low end tq, you don't need a choppy cam anyways. Have him go with the same mods as I have, degree the cam advanced 4* instead of 2* and he will have a tq monster. While the GT 40 is the best, if he can't find it for a good price, tell him to look into professional products intakes. I know they are sold by Holcolm Motorsports, but don't know who else sells them. They are a knock off of the eddy performer stuff and alot cheaper. BTW-by the desktop dyno program, I'm pushing 430ft lbs of tq. Never put it on a dyno, but heard this program is pretty close.

I also biult another 5.8 in a 91 f 150 that was carbd. I ran a comp xe268 cam in it and with a 1800 converter, Eddy RPM air Gap, Eddy performer heads, MAC equal length shorty headers and a Speed Demon 650 carb with a 4:10 locker. The cam was a little too much, but boy would it pull on the top end. It was good for the street because it only would spin for about 5' or so. Then, when it hit about 3000rps, it would take on off and pull to 6000. It and My L would be a very close race though. The L has alot more low end tq and only pulls to 5500.

Sorry for the lengthy post..Hope this helps,
David

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