331 Crank Pulley Spacing Issues - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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331 Crank Pulley Spacing Issues

Having some pulley spacing issues. I've been trouble shooting it but I'm stumped. I'll try to keep this as short as possible lol.

Dealing with a complete motor I purchased

SVO R-block 331
Eagle crank
ATI balancer



I sent the balancer back to ATI and had them go through it just to make sure it was good to go.

It came with a Pete Jackson gear drive but I pulled it off and grabbed a billet timing set from Woody @ Fordstrokers

Before with gear drive:



After with Woody's timing set:



Stripped it down, painted it, Edelbrock water pump, etc



So with all of that and the balancer back on I'm having alignment issues with the pulleys. Motor is upside down in the picture by the way, bolting the pan down. Hard to take a picture of but the crank pulley is about 1/8" forward from the other pulleys (maybe a touch more).





So my first thought was the balancer just wasn't on all the way, but after checking, it is.

Balancer snout is all the way against the crank pulley, both visually and by measurements



So I thought maybe something was messed up on the balancer from when it got sent to ATI. I had an old stock balancer laying around so I compared them both using the same crank pulley. Both the same, so its not anything with the balancer.





This is where I'm stumped. I'm not sure what would be pushing the crank pulley further out. I did not measure it when it had the gear drive on it so I dont know exactly where it sat before. Now this is just a stock crank pulley I used for mock-up. It previously had a Vortech crank pulley on it for the Vortech V1 that was on the car.

Any ideas on what could be causing it? Spacing it is not a huge deal because I am adding a crank trigger wheel so I will have to account for that. I'll either have a custom crank pulley made or mill down a vortech crank pulley because the car will be getting a blower at some point. Just want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious or something that could create problems. Thanks in advance!!


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post #2 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 10:04 PM
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How did you install the balancer? With the pan off, you can see the balancer is all the way on?

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post #4 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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How did you install the balancer? With the pan off, you can see the balancer is all the way on?
I used an ďinstallerĒ aka all-thread, washers and nuts. It is seated completely against the crank gear. Confirmed both by measurement and visually. I really couldnít press it on any further anyway because it would put the face of the balancer hub flush with the end of the crank. Wouldnít be able to achieve proper torque. Really puzzled on this!

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post #5 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 10:54 PM
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Hopefully someone smarter than me will answer, but if it fit before and doesnít fit noway weird. is the crank gear the same width between the gear drive and new chain gear?

I just installed my ford racing balancer and it was a bear. I thought it was all the way on until I saw the wear mark on the balancer from the timing cover seal was showing.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-14-2019, 11:56 PM
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Rob brings up another possibility also with the thickness of the two crank timing gears.You might be able to go online and look up the dimensions of each crank gear or you can try calling the sources for each gear to find out how thick they are,because if the balancer and the pulley are the same ones you had in place before,the crank gear seems like it could be the only possible issue.
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by luv2rock View Post
Rob brings up another possibility also with the thickness of the two crank timing gears.
Woody @FordStrokers said the crank gear I got from him is the same width as stock. The thing is it didnít have a stock one on there when I got it, it had the gear drive and I didnít think to measure it. Donít have it anymore.

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post #8 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 01:52 AM
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Can you trim either the sheaves or the damper down in a lathe?

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post #9 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 03:05 AM
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This may be a dumb question. Have you checked to make sure you don't have a excessively worn thrust bearing and the crank is pushed forward ?

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post #10 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by willyt View Post
Can you trim either the sheaves or the damper down in a lathe?
Iíll probably just have the crank pulley turned down

Quote:
Originally Posted by mld54 View Post
This may be a dumb question. Have you checked to make sure you don't have a excessively worn thrust bearing and the crank is pushed forward ?
Not a dumb question at all. Motor has less than 1000 miles on it, everything brand new. Definitely something I can look at though.


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post #11 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 02:16 PM
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It seems like,if the thrust bearing was causing the pulley to sit farther out,because of too much crank endplay,the issue would also be present with the Pete Jackson gear drive installed too. Lets say the crank was moved outward towards the radiator,from pulling/prying on the gear drive crank gear,when the gear drive components were being removed.If that were the case,the action of installing a new timing set would have likely moved the crank back inward again.
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post #12 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Iíll probably go ahead and pull the timing cover and timing set off when I get a chance and go back over everything. Something isnít adding up and Iím not going to risk it.

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post #13 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 03:40 PM
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The crank gear will be .900 wide +/- a few .001. What is different? The crank pulley is different from when the gear drive was on? Same water pump pulley from when the gear drive was on? 3 things will set the dimensions for the crank pulley, crank gear width, balancer width and crank pulley width. Provided the balancer is pressed all the way on and the balancer hub is pressed flush against the crank gear, as the crank gear is flush with the crank snout face.

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post #14 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by strokeme View Post
The crank gear will be .900 wide +/- a few .001. What is different? The crank pulley is different from when the gear drive was on? Same water pump pulley from when the gear drive was on? 3 things will set the dimensions for the crank pulley, crank gear width, balancer width and crank pulley width. Provided the balancer is pressed all the way on and the balancer hub is pressed flush against the crank gear, as the crank gear is flush with the crank snout face.

Exactly why Iím puzzled! Lol

New crank gear

New water pump (Edelbrock)

Same water pump pulley as before

Itís a stock crank pulley, but it had a vortech crank pulley before that I did not get with it because he sold the vortech separate.

Water pump pulley and alternator pulley line up with each other but neither line up with the crank pulley. Crank pulley is about 1/8Ē further out as shown in the pictures.

Balancer was sent to ATI and gone through.

ATI balancer measures out exactly the same as stock balancer both with the same crank pulley on.

Iím going to try to get in touch with the guy I bought it from and make sure he wasnít using spacers on the accessories or anything else special.

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post #15 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 04:47 PM
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let me see the face of each balancer

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post #16 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by strokeme View Post
let me see the face of each balancer
Iím at the fire station today. I can take some tomorrow. Those pictures above of the balancer were with the crank pulled bolted on, face down on a flat surface.

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post #17 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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This is the ATI


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post #18 of 22 Old 06-15-2019, 09:52 PM
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Can you move the crank back and forth ?

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post #19 of 22 Old 06-16-2019, 12:38 AM
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I just installed the water pump on my 351, but I'm not too sure about the different versions of the water pump...do they all have that steel backing plate? Does yours?

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post #20 of 22 Old 06-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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Just throwing out a guess... could it be something with the woodruff key?
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-16-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JV106 View Post
Just throwing out a guess... could it be something with the woodruff key?
This right here.
I bet that if you pull the cover off, and then install the balancer (so you can get a visual), it is not bottomed out when you think it is.
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-16-2019, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Just throwing out a guess... could it be something with the woodruff key?
Good point

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90MarkVII View Post
This right here.
I bet that if you pull the cover off, and then install the balancer (so you can get a visual), it is not bottomed out when you think it is.
Quite possible. Iím going to pull it off in the next few days, whenever I get a chance.

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