Long tubes for an AOD 11R 190 car. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 06-12-2019, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Question Long tubes for an AOD 11R 190 car.

What long tube headers are guys with the 11R 190 AOD cars using? Thanks!


'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #2 of 31 Old 06-12-2019, 06:03 PM
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mac. just don't order ceramic or you'll be waiting for months.

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post #3 of 31 Old 06-12-2019, 09:40 PM
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mac. just don't order ceramic or you'll be waiting for months.
This is true. You'll wait for months and get nothing but crickets from mac's #### customer service.

If you can find a place (LMR or american muscle) that actually has them in stock and ready to ship, I'd get the ceramic coated ones.

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post #4 of 31 Old 06-13-2019, 08:40 AM
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Macs fit the best, ive had the 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 , just have to clean up welds on inside of header flange

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post #5 of 31 Old 06-13-2019, 11:44 AM
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Why not take that money and get a Super charger?


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What long tube headers are guys with the 11R 190 AOD cars using? Thanks!

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #6 of 31 Old 06-13-2019, 01:20 PM
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Why not take that money and get a Super charger?
I'll take one of those $400 super chargers.

1968 Torino GT 302 GT40Y TFS1 - 318HP/318TQ G-Force T5 Strange 9" 4.30's 12.29 ET 110 MPH 1.71 60'
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post #7 of 31 Old 06-14-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Macs fit the best, ive had the 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 , just have to clean up welds on inside of header flange
Which size do you think is the best for a 302 car? I don't have a welder, so I'll have to send them out.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #8 of 31 Old 06-14-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Why not take that money and get a Super charger?
I want something...lol. I made a few test pulls last weekend and I want more. Not sure if I should do a turbo kit or more cubes, (351W).

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #9 of 31 Old 06-14-2019, 04:42 PM
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Macs fit the best, ive had the 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 , just have to clean up welds on inside of header flange
Which size do you think is the best for a 302 car? I don't have a welder, so I'll have to send them out.
I think he meant clean them up with a carbide burr.

I’d recommend 1 3/4, you won’t outgrow those for awhile, and you won’t lose anything over 1 5/8. Just be prepared for them to be a bitch to attach to the head. You may need to grind the bolt heads down a bit to fit.
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post #10 of 31 Old 06-14-2019, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Thanks!


'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #11 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Nitrous Al View Post
I want something...lol. I made a few test pulls last weekend and I want more. Not sure if I should do a turbo kit or more cubes, (351W).
Did you make it to the track?

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post #12 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 09:17 AM
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Do a turbo, mild boost like 8psi, then you don't use any LT headers.

I'd want the 1 5/8" also for a milder 302, but I think you are at the edge of needing the 1.75" headers now. I'm also looking soon for LT's for my 347 Lincoln, I want the 1.75", but not sure I need them.

Don
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post #13 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Did you make it to the track?
No, I haven't made it to the track. (I've been working two jobs and trying to catch up on bills). If not some day this month, I'm going next month. I've been driving my car and I feel it needs more.
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'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #14 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CDW6212R View Post
Do a turbo, mild boost like 8psi, then you don't use any LT headers.

I'd want the 1 5/8" also for a milder 302, but I think you are at the edge of needing the 1.75" headers now. I'm also looking soon for LT's for my 347 Lincoln, I want the 1.75", but not sure I need them.
A turbo kit sounds good. They're in the $3500 range. More cubes (357-408) is going to cost about the same amount or more. I'm trying to think long term. I've even been thinking mod motor. I'm not happy to find out shops have stopped making Foxbody stuff.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #15 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 03:38 PM
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A nice turbo setup can work well on a stock 302, if all the air/fuel stuff is proper etc. Many have built there own setup without a kit, and ended up much cheaper than the poorest kit/brand etc.

I'm way past the current best thinking, a late 5.0 engine swap. That can evidently be done for $5k or in that range, depending on the donor parts costs. I would gladly do that now if I knew the costs ten years ago. I'm trying not to think about that for my old Ranchero, which really needs to have Cleveland heads. But it's hard to debate a more expensive older combo, versus a late model used engine that's less.

Don
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98 Explorer Limited project to add 4WD, XP8 parts, KB blower, paint, 337.
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post #16 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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I know I'm going to want more power. Chris Watson is making big power on a stock 5.0 shortblock. It's possible. I may go mod motor or 351w based motor for room to grow.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #17 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CDW6212R View Post
Do a turbo, mild boost like 8psi, then you don't use any LT headers.

I'd want the 1 5/8" also for a milder 302, but I think you are at the edge of needing the 1.75" headers now. I'm also looking soon for LT's for my 347 Lincoln, I want the 1.75", but not sure I need them.
If you have a 347 with a half decent top end, you need 1 3/4in. Remember, tube is measured by its OD; so that 1 5/8 is actually a good bit smaller than that. Engine power dyno’d a 347 with 1 5/8, changed absolutely nothing else at all except added 1 3/4 long tubes and gained over 20 hp. Same engine and everything. I’d you’re buying headers, get the larger size.

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I know I'm going to want more power. Chris Watson is making big power on a stock 5.0 shortblock. It's possible. I may go mod motor or 351w based motor for room to grow.
You put money into your pushrod engine and now are thinking about going mod? Why not just build the 351? You can use your heads and cam and just add forced induction. Way less of a hassle than swapping in a mod motor.
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422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #18 of 31 Old 06-17-2019, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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"...You put money into your pushrod engine and now are thinking about going mod? Why not just build the 351? You can use your heads and cam and just add forced induction. Way less of a hassle than swapping in a mod motor.
I'm still thinking out loud. The 11R 190's might be a little small for a 408. A '03-'04 Terminator motor with a supercharger would be nice. Then I'm almost in Coyote territory cost wise. Looking at prices, it's going to be expensive no matter which direction I go.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #19 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 96pushrod View Post

"...You put money into your pushrod engine and now are thinking about going mod? Why not just build the 351? You can use your heads and cam and just add forced induction. Way less of a hassle than swapping in a mod motor.
I'm still thinking out loud. The 11R 190's might be a little small for a 408. A '03-'04 Terminator motor with a supercharger would be nice. Then I'm almost in Coyote territory cost wise. Looking at prices, it's going to be expensive no matter which direction I go.
Slap a used vortech on there for now and save for a proper coyote swap or Dart block based build. That will feed your power cravings for now and you can slowly work on a new build while you enjoy your current car.
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post #20 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 11:22 AM
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Be mild with the initial upgrade, the AOD can't handle much more without major work inside of it.

Don
92 Mark VII LSC SE - soon OBDII and 4R70, GTC kit and 347, custom paint.
98 Explorer Limited project to add 4WD, XP8 parts, KB blower, paint, 337.
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post #21 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 06:33 PM
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I'm still thinking out loud. The 11R 190's might be a little small for a 408. A '03-'04 Terminator motor with a supercharger would be nice. Then I'm almost in Coyote territory cost wise. Looking at prices, it's going to be expensive no matter which direction I go.
Gotcha. The 190s will still work good on a 408. It’s not absolutely ideal but they will still make some killer power.

The mod swaps get expensive quick unless you do it all yourself and can score some good deals on parts. In that case, it’s still a time consuming swap to do. I’d personally never really recommend doing one instead of just building a stroker pushrod engine.

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347, 205 11R's, Box R Intake, Ported lower, custom comp cam, 42lb injectors, 255LPH, pro-m 80, 75mm Cheap-ass TB, 1 3/4 x 3in LT's, exhaust by me, A5 trans, 4.10

422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #22 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Slap a used vortech on there for now and save for a proper coyote swap or Dart block based build. That will feed your power cravings for now and you can slowly work on a new build while you enjoy your current car.
Know of anyone with one for sale? I had the car out the pass couple of days. It's fun! Brakes should be the next mod.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #23 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 10:55 PM
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The idea that 190's are "too small" or "kinda small" on a 351W is hogwash. Could it use larger heads? Probably, but it will still put those 190's to excellent use. 425-450 hp without trying I bet. Add a turbo to that and a measly 8 psi and you are well over 600 hp.

Ford Racing was making 385hp 351W crate engines 20-25 years ago that had way smaller heads than the 190's. They had GT40X aluminum heads. 385 hp with 12psi is approaching 700 hp.

I'd build a decent 0.030" over 351W with the stock crank, aftermarket rods and pistons, put the 190 heads on it, get a proper matching intake (Super Victor), and put a Super Sniper EFI on it. Add a decent off the shelf or custom cam. Then bolt on a On3 351W turbo kit. Dial up 8-9 psi and enjoy. Dial up 12 psi when you want to be a hero.
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post #24 of 31 Old 06-18-2019, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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"Gotcha. The 190s will still work good on a 408. Itís not absolutely ideal but they will still make some killer power...".
I'll run it by Ed Curtis when I'm ready. I might sell the complete 302 engine. I'll need money for High Ports...

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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post #25 of 31 Old 06-19-2019, 07:24 AM
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That’s what I mean about instead of messing around with headers for very small gains, put that money towards boost.

My regret on my build was not doing a better block. Good move on a 351 or going Dart.

With modern cars pushing big numbers now, 400 and 500 Hp cars aren’t the beasts they once were.

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post #26 of 31 Old 06-19-2019, 07:53 AM
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With modern cars pushing big numbers now, 400 and 500 Hp cars arenít the beasts they once were.

400 to 500 hp is STILL 400 to 500 hp. And that is a metric crap ton of power for a street car today just as it was 25 years ago. My car only puts 349/352 to the ground and I can tell you it is much, much faster than most other traffic on the roads. It's powerful enough to be dangerous in the wrong hands. And it would not be considered that powerful in the imaginary world that is interwebsland where every car has eleventy hundred hp.

Horsepower is still horsepower and torque is still torque. The measure has not changed.
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post #27 of 31 Old 06-19-2019, 09:29 AM
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400 to 500 hp is STILL 400 to 500 hp. And that is a metric crap ton of power for a street car today just as it was 25 years ago. My car only puts 349/352 to the ground and I can tell you it is much, much faster than most other traffic on the roads. It's powerful enough to be dangerous in the wrong hands. And it would not be considered that powerful in the imaginary world that is interwebsland where every car has eleventy hundred hp.



Horsepower is still horsepower and torque is still torque. The measure has not changed.


I heard at 501hp the blocks split directly down the middle anyways


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post #28 of 31 Old 06-19-2019, 12:57 PM
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And it would not be considered that powerful in the imaginary world that is interwebsland where every car has eleventy hundred hp.
I saw people complaining today about how the new GT500 only has 760hp, as though that's overdone and boring.

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post #29 of 31 Old 06-19-2019, 02:57 PM
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I wouldn't even think twice about doing inch and 3/4. Also has previously mentioned, the 190s are plenty of head for a naturally-aspirated 408 under 7000 RPM. The problem with the mod motors as cool as they are, is that they will never have the aftermarket or longevity following that the venerable 302 has. If you want to do something a little different, and RPM is your thing and build a motor with Cleveland Heads. If not, slap in a good old-fashioned big block Ford and run easy nines.

Or if you're clinically insane, and money is no object, get a billet big block Ford block put some killer heads on it and run 30 lb of boost through it.

So many options these days. Heck, slap a tesla model 3 performance drivetrain into a old four banger Fox chassis and do something really different. Did you know Jegs sells electric motors for cars now?

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post #30 of 31 Old 06-20-2019, 08:23 AM
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If not, slap in a good old-fashioned big block Ford and run easy nines.
Really? I've always been under the impression that the BBF is expensive to get good power out of. The displacement is there, but outside of Kasse, there's not a ton of aftermarket. It'd be easier to go with a 427/460 9.5 deck small block and make 700hp without the 650lb engine weight.

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post #31 of 31 Old 06-21-2019, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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I wouldn't even think twice about doing inch and 3/4. Also has previously mentioned, the 190s are plenty of head for a naturally-aspirated 408 under 7000 RPM. The problem with the mod motors as cool as they are, is that they will never have the aftermarket or longevity following that the venerable 302 has. If you want to do something a little different, and RPM is your thing and build a motor with Cleveland Heads. If not, slap in a good old-fashioned big block Ford and run easy nines.

Or if you're clinically insane, and money is no object, get a billet big block Ford block put some killer heads on it and run 30 lb of boost through it.

So many options these days. Heck, slap a tesla model 3 performance drivetrain into a old four banger Fox chassis and do something really different. Did you know Jegs sells electric motors for cars now?
My 408 might not be naturally aspired...lol. The next mod is probably going to better brakes and a suspension. I like curves! A 5.0 with an off road x-pipe and Flowmasters sound good in a turn at mid RPMs. I will hit the drag strip. I also want to try road courses and maybe auto cross.

'88 5.0 GT hatch AOD 3.08
stock 302, Ed Curtis cam & 11R 190 heads,
Holley SM2, 320 hp 332 tq to the wheels
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