Improving PCV performance - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Improving PCV performance

Trying to rid of oil in the upper intake due to the stock pcv system. Ive been reading through that adding an additional pcv onto the driver side valve cover and running it to the upper intake tree is one option, the other is an inline catch can with the existing system hose, or a different calibrated pcv, curious what is the ideal solution when the stock system isn't enough?

Thanks for the help.

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post #2 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:41 PM
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Are you n/a or forced induction? I'm working on a little experiment:




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post #3 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:42 PM
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An in line separator would be my choice. Non invasive. Easy setup.

Stock block 306, V1 T-trim, AFM B-451 cam, TFS Twisted Wedge, Holley Systemax, A1000, Snow Meth, TKO 600, Team Z, Strange, MM, Lakewood and Moser helps me go forward fast.
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post #4 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:42 PM
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Otherwise, I've been using a harbor freight oil/water separator for an ail line. Works pretty well, but the sintered bronze filter clogs fast. I've since removed it.

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'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #5 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLTDLX View Post
Are you n/a or forced induction? I'm working on a little experiment:

Or this. Any progress?

Stock block 306, V1 T-trim, AFM B-451 cam, TFS Twisted Wedge, Holley Systemax, A1000, Snow Meth, TKO 600, Team Z, Strange, MM, Lakewood and Moser helps me go forward fast.
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post #6 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Im NA, my rebuild 331 is pulling some strong vacuum at 21 inhg and im seeing some oil residue due to the pcv.
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post #7 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 07:06 PM
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Just run an oil seperator. There are quite a few options out there. They’re small and easy to install.

After putting mine in I don’t see and oil picked up thru the pcv line into the intake.

1996 Mustang
347, 205 11R's, Box R Intake, Ported lower, custom comp cam, 42lb injectors, 255LPH, pro-m 80, 75mm Cheap-ass TB, 1 3/4 x 3in LT's, exhaust by me, A5 trans, 4.10

422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #8 of 47 Unread 05-12-2019, 07:23 PM
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Steeda oil seperator and a screw in breather on the oil fill instead of venting it to the intake. But mine is NA not sure if that works for boosted application.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #9 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 12:30 AM
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If you have room, a larger oil separator like the Moroso 85474 (or one of the eBay clones of it...) is nice. I think the larger surface area and reservoir is advantagous.

Take a look at the M/E Wagner PCV valve ( Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve ? M/E Wagner Performance Products ). Some may have a problem spending money on a PCV valve, but it is a high quality piece you can adjust to your application. OEM PCV valves are built to a spec at the lowest price point. You may be able to find a different OEM PCV to give you acceptable results, but there isn't a wealth of flow rate information on these components out there.

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post #10 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 06:54 PM
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I'd get the biggest one you can find a place for and mount it low so you'll have gravity on your side.. The winter months where there's a lot of cold humidity it fills up quick. Right now I'll get a 1/4 teaspoon a week of oily water.



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post #11 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 08:04 PM
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How often are you emptying yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 96pushrod View Post
Just run an oil seperator. There are quite a few options out there. They’re small and easy to install.

After putting mine in I don’t see and oil picked up thru the pcv line into the intake.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #12 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
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How often are you emptying yours?
i actually haven't even emptied it yet. I've probably got about 150-200 hard miles on the car since installation. Right now it's in paint so it hasn't been driven in a month. There's probably about a teaspoon in there now.

1996 Mustang
347, 205 11R's, Box R Intake, Ported lower, custom comp cam, 42lb injectors, 255LPH, pro-m 80, 75mm Cheap-ass TB, 1 3/4 x 3in LT's, exhaust by me, A5 trans, 4.10

422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #13 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 08:54 PM
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I just got mine installed and got 45 miles on it and got about 1/2 inch in the cup. Probably 2-4 teaspoons worth.

The puffs of smoke are Long gone I’ll have to monitor over time.

Hoping to get to track on Friday for the first time. This was the last little item to fix.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post
How often are you emptying yours?
i actually haven't even emptied it yet. I've probably got about 150-200 hard miles on the car since installation. Right now it's in paint so it hasn't been driven in a month. There's probably about a teaspoon in there now.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #14 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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So I ended up doing two things as a safeguard, one was adding a pcv to the driver side valve cover and put a baffle and filter under the pcv (like the stock one) and "t" it with the oem pcv valve hose into a catch can separator and then into the upper intake plenum. Im already noticing a difference. Curious if this is ideal and if doing both poses any issues?
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post #15 of 47 Unread 05-13-2019, 10:50 PM
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Separator is one more item to maintain which I suspect is why OEM's don't have them.

I always try to study OEM stuff and figure out how they have it done. Even on a 500hp windsor, look at the GT500's, Challengers, etc. What do they use? I am not familiar with them. I'm still using a PCV on the '93, it works fine (2.3L) and a wagner on the 427" SBF. It also seems to be fine though I ain't put too many miles on it yet.
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post #16 of 47 Unread 05-14-2019, 10:25 AM
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Seperator does a lot to prevent gunk on valve train and the intake tract.

Running an 11.3:1 347 is not what Ford designed the OEM PCV to handle. And it gets worse for guys with boost.

You can’t compare the pushrod motors to modern engines.

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Originally Posted by toddturbo View Post
Separator is one more item to maintain which I suspect is why OEM's don't have them.

I always try to study OEM stuff and figure out how they have it done. Even on a 500hp windsor, look at the GT500's, Challengers, etc. What do they use? I am not familiar with them. I'm still using a PCV on the '93, it works fine (2.3L) and a wagner on the 427" SBF. It also seems to be fine though I ain't put too many miles on it yet.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #17 of 47 Unread 05-14-2019, 12:49 PM
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Here you go.

https://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0...or-design.html

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #18 of 47 Unread 05-14-2019, 08:07 PM
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I read that whole thread. I’m still not clear on what’s the best solution 😂 I definitely would not want a seperator draining back to my oil pan.


The UPR kit looks decent I wish I had bought that instead of the Steeda one as I’d like more oil volume.

I’ve got an oil seperator and driver side valve cover breather. No more smoke.
I am getting oil in the Steeda site glass I’ll gave to monitor it over time.

My car is driven under 1000 miles a year so emptying the seperator is not that big a deal to me.

Having the Systemax intake with the Holley supplied baffles may be insufficient. Wish I had seen that thread before installing my intake. If I ever have to pull it off I’ll make a bigger baffle over what’s included.

Lot of anecdotal information on this topic.


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post #19 of 47 Unread 05-14-2019, 08:19 PM
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Moroso makes a pretty decent size oil seperator, but you shouldn’t need more than a couple oz capacity with a n/a engine.

1996 Mustang
347, 205 11R's, Box R Intake, Ported lower, custom comp cam, 42lb injectors, 255LPH, pro-m 80, 75mm Cheap-ass TB, 1 3/4 x 3in LT's, exhaust by me, A5 trans, 4.10

422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #20 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96pushrod View Post
Moroso makes a pretty decent size oil seperator, but you shouldnít need more than a couple oz capacity with a n/a engine.
I've kept track of the amount drained from my separator since I installed it last year. I'm looking at 3.0 ounces collected with 1000 miles driven. This is on a NA 302 with a Wagner PCV valve and the large Moroso 85474 oil seperator. I'm running a tubular GT 40 upper with the first generation FMS lower, which has the small baffle plate.

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post #21 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post
I read that whole thread. Iím still not clear on whatís the best solution 😂 I definitely would not want a seperator draining back to my oil pan.


The UPR kit looks decent I wish I had bought that instead of the Steeda one as Iíd like more oil volume.

Iíve got an oil seperator and driver side valve cover breather. No more smoke.
I am getting oil in the Steeda site glass Iíll gave to monitor it over time.

My car is driven under 1000 miles a year so emptying the seperator is not that big a deal to me.

Having the Systemax intake with the Holley supplied baffles may be insufficient. Wish I had seen that thread before installing my intake. If I ever have to pull it off Iíll make a bigger baffle over whatís included.

Lot of anecdotal information on this topic.
use larger ID PCV lines for an engine with larger displacement and higher RPM capability

remove any breather, return the fresh air line that goes between maf and TB

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #22 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 06:05 PM
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Do you have a PCV valve on both valve covers or did I miss something??
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post #23 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 09:19 PM
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Do you mean between the VC and TB?

Why not keep the breather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post

use larger ID PCV lines for an engine with larger displacement and higher RPM capability

remove any breather, return the fresh air line that goes between maf and TB

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #24 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 09:20 PM
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The UPR kit addresses the larger id hose and the taller canister helps to coalesce better. The Steeda unit is a joke.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #25 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post
Do you mean between the VC and TB?

Why not keep the breather?
fresh air must be attained in that part of the tract

where you stick into the engine, is your choice, the factory chooses the oil fill port.

your pcv is connected to the intake manifold, no? that is why

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #26 of 47 Unread 05-15-2019, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Can a secondary pcv valve be added then to the drivers side valve cover or is it common to the passenger side and relegated for fresh air supply only?
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post #27 of 47 Unread 05-16-2019, 05:41 AM
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Agreed and wish I’d seen that kit before I bought the Steeda one.

The Steeda kit isn’t bad but it’s got a small oil capacity. However the small size does make it easier to find a home for it...

Quote:
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The UPR kit addresses the larger id hose and the taller canister helps to coalesce better. The Steeda unit is a joke.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #28 of 47 Unread 05-16-2019, 01:18 PM
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You can try one more step that seems to work. Relocate the pcv to the front of the driver's side valve cover. Make sure to have a baffle underneath the pcv. Keep the old pcv in the rear of intake and put a rubber vacuum cap over the nipple. It is now blocked off. Run the pcv hose from the pcv to Steeda unit as it is now.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #29 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post
Do you mean between the VC and TB?

Why not keep the breather?
Im assuming here and if Im wrong someone will correct me,but indy may be eluding to a vacuum leak possibly being created,if you keep the breather while still running a closed pcv system?
IOW - if the pcv valve is still being used,a breathered oil cap will allow unmetered air to enter the system,since any air that enters the engine which hasnt already passed through and been metered by the maf sensor is treated as unmetered air (ie - vacuum leak) It can upset the afr,making it falsely lean which triggers the ecu to falsely richen the fuel trim.The air that is drawn in from the throttle body port to the valve cover is air that has passed through the maf sensor already and since it was metered,the afr stays correct,thats the reason why the fresh air tube was put at that location.Some cars dont seem to be affected when using a breather and pcv valve while others are.
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post #30 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 09:42 AM
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Could you problem be oil splash into the vacuum hose?

I run a 363 at around 1500 HP, 30 psi boost, and 8K RPM and don't catch any oil with my vacuum pump. I never have to empty.

Since my manifold doesn't have a PCV port I pull vacuum off my covers. The vacuum draws between the first and second rocker groups on each side, between rocker pairs for cylinders 1 and 2 on one bank and 5 and 6 on the other bank. That is the spot with least oil splash.

Ford originally pulled crankcase vacuum from the PCV valve that was at the intake rear. It had a screen and/or baffle. I've routed other ways but I always paid attention to avoiding direct splash or vapor on the vent point.

Otherwise just get a separator.


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post #31 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 11:37 AM
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The port that is normally connected at the TB to the Valve cover is capped off.

Just venting the valve cover via a breather that is screwed into the oil fill.

The separator is between my PCV and intake.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post
Do you mean between the VC and TB?

Why not keep the breather?
Im assuming here and if Im wrong someone will correct me,but indy may be eluding to a vacuum leak possibly being created,if you keep the breather while still running a closed pcv system?
IOW - if the pcv valve is still being used,a breathered oil cap will allow unmetered air to enter the system,since any air that enters the engine which hasnt already passed through and been metered by the maf sensor is treated as unmetered air (ie - vacuum leak) It can upset the afr,making it falsely lean which triggers the ecu to falsely richen the fuel trim.The air that is drawn in from the throttle body port to the valve cover is air that has passed through the maf sensor already and since it was metered,the afr stays correct,thats the reason why the fresh air tube was put at that location.Some cars dont seem to be affected when using a breather and pcv valve while others are.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #32 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangdawg View Post

Just venting the valve cover via a breather that is screwed into the oil fill.
The filter screwed into the oil fill draws air in also which creates an air leak in an otherwise sealed system. Some tunes seem to be able to compensate for it. I tried the same breather setup with my Systemax ll with poor results. Your choices are to buy a better oil separator, relocate pcv to valve cover or buy a different intake.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #33 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 01:42 PM
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open breather is a bad idea, period

you can get a well made check valve that takes place of the cap, it allows pressure out but does not allow outside air in, you retain the fresh air line

if you search the supercharger section you should be able to find it.

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post #34 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 02:50 PM
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Thanks I’ll check it out.

Is it screw in?

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Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
open breather is a bad idea, period

you can get a well made check valve that takes place of the cap, it allows pressure out but does not allow outside air in, you retain the fresh air line

if you search the supercharger section you should be able to find it.

1989 GT - 347 build in progress
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post #35 of 47 Unread 05-17-2019, 05:49 PM
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It would be nice if you could run a hose to the bottom of the oil seperater,then any oil collected in the seperater reservoir would go straight to the valve cover,once you weld a hose barb to the valve cover.I wonder if there would be a chance of oil vapor being picked up from the valve cover though or is that something which likely wouldn't happen since a seperater filter is there to possibly prevent any backflow of oil??This would route any oil,that got collected in the seperater, directly into the valve cover instead of having to empty it.It might not work,but its something I was curious about.
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