New 5.0, it's a turd. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 04-29-2019, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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New 5.0, it's a turd.

Hey folks haven't been around here for a while but I've recently picked up another 302 car. A 1986 Capri 5spd. Problem is i feel like it's pretty slow for the mods it has. Here's the list as I was told and what I can verify.
explorer short block.
Gt40p heads, verified.
Pro products intake mani/TB
Comp 266 cam, unverified.
Shorty headers/ off road H/ flowmaster 50 series.
Mass air conversion with A9L ecu.
STOCK MAF, air silencer removed. Stock 19lb injectors.

The car feels slow and is slow. Ran [email protected] on a cool day. Granted it's running what I believe are 3.08 gears finished the 1/4 in 3rd at 6k rpm. Race weight about 3300lbs. For reference the last bolt on auto 5.0 LX I had ran [email protected] at the same track.

So far I've moved timing from 10 up to 15 initial. No FPR, so no adjustment. Ran 93oct fuel. Checked for vacuum leaks and loose connections. Car drives around town fine, but when you open it up, nothing. Really seems to struggle over 5k rpms. Could the stock maf be that much of a bottleneck? Haven't pulled the covers to check the valvetrain out yet, doing that later. Is it far off to think this car should trap at least 105? I'm starting to think the cam was not installed properly. I dont think there is any valve float, at higher rpm it still runs smooth just doesnt make any power.


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post #2 of 49 Old 04-29-2019, 06:53 PM
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The stock maf is only 55mm iirc. Yes, it's a bottleneck. How much of one is up for debate. I don't think you'll trap 105 mph with that setup at 3,300 lbs, though. I think more like 102 ish is reasonable to expect at that weight. Gearing would help with mph too, especially if it's tongue's hanging out through the traps as much as you say it is. I also think it's likely the cam is holding you back. But you know the drill - "If I'm gonna do the cam, I might as well do the intake - and if I'm gonna do the intake, well I could save 50lbs and pick up 50 hp with heads... and so on."

With these cars you've got to draw the line somewhere; and the costs start to rise exponentially. But I'm pretty sure you know that having had a few foxes.


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'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #3 of 49 Old 04-29-2019, 09:32 PM
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perfect combo to put on a twin screw, and enjoy
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post #4 of 49 Old 04-29-2019, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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I read alot of good reviews about the cam, but I'm not a fan of it. The plan was to buy a fox and put a turbo on it. But if it doesnt work now, shoving air in probably wont get me the desired results. I suppose if it had a 3.73 or 4.10 in it, it would pick up a bit. I dont think those gears would play nice with forced induction without a big tire though. As you said, probably going to put more money than I planned on into it.
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post #5 of 49 Old 04-29-2019, 09:38 PM
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250ish hp isn't fast anymore when you can buy a family sedan V6 with more power...

The shortest path to your goal is a supercharger..
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post #6 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 12:10 AM
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Seem like it runs just about like it should.
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post #7 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 01:25 AM
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Seem like it runs just about like it should.
I would concur with this...........
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post #8 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 11:21 AM
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Well....i'd start with the unverified cam.
Get the card and a degree wheel, see if it's good for your combo..

Also make sure your valvesprings are suitable.
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post #9 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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I did a gt40 intake with gt40p heads while still SD with 19lb injectors. I did a dyno session and it was running lean above 4k rpm. Had to increase the fuel pressure almost 10psi to correct it above 4k but then it was running rich at idle. Eventually I converted to mass air with 24lb injectors and a 75mm meter, ran much better after that.

I'd guess you are running out of fuel with those heads, intake, and cam with the 19lb injectors. Do you know if the fuel pump has been replaced? I bet a bigger meter, 24lb injectors, and a bigger fuel pump (if you have the stock pump) will make a noticeable difference.
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post #10 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 12:53 PM
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With 3.08 gears ? You shouldn't even post until you put at least 3.73s. I would go 4.10 and then consider a mass air (which I would go 80mm on). Put as much timing as it will take. If it starts pinging or starts to slow down back it off .


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post #11 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 02:20 PM
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a quick upgrade is to swap in a 94-95 MAF that is 70mm - fuel curve is almost identical and it's for use with 19# injectors
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post #12 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 09:03 PM
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I would think it would ET a little better. My current car has a stock engine TB to oil pan. 73mm c&l shorty header 2.5 catted H-pipe flows, manual rack and electric fan. T5 4.10 gears. It does have Lakewood lift arms, drag radials, my best pass has been 1.78 60' 13.70 @ 97.7 mph

But with out knowing the DA it's hard to say you are that far off.

Getting a 3.08 car down the track is not easy. My last car had them. It had an explorer motor with HO cam, 65 tb 73 C&L and the exhaust that on the current car. It did produce some 99 mph slips but never got in the triple digits.

Which my cars might be off as well.
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post #13 of 49 Old 04-30-2019, 09:57 PM
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By today's standards they are total turds.

Think about it. 225 hp at 4200 and 300 ft-lbs at 3200 is like tractor specs by today's measure. The 3.7 that showed up in 2011 had 305hp at 6500 and 280 lb-ft at 4250. The 2011 V6 ran the 1/4 in about 13.7 at 102. That engine in a Foxbody would destroy the 5.0 in every metric. Hell stock the mighty 5.0 ran 14.6ish at 65ish in the quarter. The new 2011 V6 was still faster by a significant margin. Get the 2011 down to the GT/LX weight and it'd be even faster. My wife's RAV4 is faster.

If you really want to be saddened by the performance of the once king of streets 5.0 think about the output of the 2.3 EB in a light weight package. Then think about it tuned.
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post #14 of 49 Old 05-01-2019, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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By today's standards they are total turds.

Think about it. 225 hp at 4200 and 300 ft-lbs at 3200 is like tractor specs by today's measure. The 3.7 that showed up in 2011 had 305hp at 6500 and 280 lb-ft at 4250. The 2011 V6 ran the 1/4 in about 13.7 at 102. That engine in a Foxbody would destroy the 5.0 in every metric. Hell stock the mighty 5.0 ran 14.6ish at 65ish in the quarter. The new 2011 V6 was still faster by a significant margin. Get the 2011 down to the GT/LX weight and it'd be even faster. My wife's RAV4 is faster.

If you really want to be saddened by the performance of the once king of streets 5.0 think about the output of the 2.3 EB in a light weight package. Then think about it tuned.
I'm aware of the abysmal performance of the 5.0 by today's standards. I had a tuned ecoboost mustang. My DD is a tuned 3.5 f150. It's a 5200lb V6 truck that gets 25mpg and runs mid 12s. Isnt technology great! Lol.

All I'm getting at is I've owned probably 10 different foxes. Stock to HCI and nitrous. This thing has no punch, anywhere, its performance is on par with the last few stockish cars I've had. Guess I'll have to pull the timing cover and check this cam and dig out my old fox body stuff. And if I'm going to check the cam might as well change it.

Tmoss- thanks for the info, I'll have to get ahold of one of those.

Blackout- I'm not putting gears in it. 3.08 will be fine at 12psi. T5 might not fare so well.

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post #15 of 49 Old 05-01-2019, 03:59 AM
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I'm not liking that combo very much. The typhoon should do work at the top where the GT40Ps are wheezing. I don't know much about that cam, but I'd still expect it to run better than a stock 5.0. So, something is wrong. Maybe not firing on all cylinders. Run it and pull plugs. Would probably be best to start with a fresh set. Or put it on a dyno where you can watch the AFR.
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post #16 of 49 Old 05-01-2019, 07:35 AM
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The 5.0 needs to be at least a 331 cu in with a good set of aluminum heads (Trick flow / AFR) and decent aluminum intake (edelbrock/ trick flow etc). That is the minimum cost of admission if you want a decent running fox. You need at least 350 to 400 flywheel hp if you want to have a fun driving experience imo.
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post #17 of 49 Old 05-01-2019, 07:57 AM
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I have fun when I take my Dad's 100% stock 25K mile '84 GT350 5.0/5speed anniversary convertible out for a drive. It's a turd of the highest order for speed, but it drives really nice and sounds good. 174 hp and 245 lb-ft is nothing to right home about. LOL!!!!

You don't HAVE to have 350-400 hp to have fun. But it sure helps.
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post #18 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 12:37 PM
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The advice in this thread is strange. They seem to be focused on the "turd" part and not much attention to the fact that the car is running like stock with heads, cam, and an intake.
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post #19 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 01:39 PM
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How is your driving ability?

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post #20 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 05:46 PM
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How is your driving ability?
Rob.

Rod, Rob, Rob.......

You saunter blissfully into dangerous territory here, my friend.


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post #21 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 05:48 PM
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In 50 years of dealing with racers, from top fuel, to GTP, to the first time street racer, I have never found a single driver to have ever been less than perfect in his style or execution.
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post #22 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 06:24 PM
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By today's standards they are total turds.
LOL. My wife worries about me and my "fast" car (basically bone stock). I say babe don't worry, it looks and sounds fast but I can go faster in your turbo Volvo sedan,
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post #23 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 06:41 PM
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By today's standards they are total turds.



Think about it. 225 hp at 4200 and 300 ft-lbs at 3200 is like tractor specs by today's measure. The 3.7 that showed up in 2011 had 305hp at 6500 and 280 lb-ft at 4250. The 2011 V6 ran the 1/4 in about 13.7 at 102. That engine in a Foxbody would destroy the 5.0 in every metric. Hell stock the mighty 5.0 ran 14.6ish at 65ish in the quarter. The new 2011 V6 was still faster by a significant margin. Get the 2011 down to the GT/LX weight and it'd be even faster. My wife's RAV4 is faster.



If you really want to be saddened by the performance of the once king of streets 5.0 think about the output of the 2.3 EB in a light weight package. Then think about it tuned.
I would love to drop a 2011+ 3.7 into a fox body.

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post #24 of 49 Unread 05-01-2019, 07:47 PM
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If committing to that much work and not doing a Coyote, just go straight to a 3.5 Ecoboost with a 6R80 or even a 10R80 if it would fit.

To be honest, I am surprised it hasn't been done yet.
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post #25 of 49 Unread 05-02-2019, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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The advice in this thread is strange. They seem to be focused on the "turd" part and not much attention to the fact that the car is running like stock with heads, cam, and an intake.
Seems that way.

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post #26 of 49 Unread 05-02-2019, 07:10 AM
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2 things need done when you go forced induction that will help now.
Mass air meter and fuel pump.
From my experience driving a 326 cu.in. 800hp turbo Fox (not mine, friends) with 3.27's, I really don't think 3.08's are going to be the hot ticket on a GT40 stock block build at 12psi...
Just my .02... it's your car, and if you want to keep the 3.08's then that's what you need to do.

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post #27 of 49 Unread 05-02-2019, 09:21 AM
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In 50 years of dealing with racers, from top fuel, to GTP, to the first time street racer, I have never found a single driver to have ever been less than perfect in his style or execution.
Allow me to begin...

OP, what was your 60 ft. time?
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post #28 of 49 Unread 05-02-2019, 06:52 PM
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My guess is you'll you'll not get a response... I have the feeling OP is not getting the answers he wants.
97 mph is good for 13.7's, even in poor air with 1.8 60's... at least in my experience... and I've been there.
So, we are dealing with a thread more about how awesome it'll be with 12psi and 3.08's... than we are with lets get this thing sorted.
Too bad, I was excited about a Ford iron head thread.
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post #29 of 49 Unread 05-02-2019, 11:34 PM
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My friend (whose house was hit by a tornado earlier today) has the same car, '86 Capri. Original turbo 4, converted to a 5.0 and T5. I remembe well the day he showed up at the house with it and said lets go for a ride. Stopped up the street, nailed it with an attempt to burn rubber, but ended up smoking the clutch instead. Later on we got out on the freeway and he laid into 'er again. Honestly it was slow, but I made sure to act scared so he felt better about it. My '84 GT was MUCH quicker/faster but we didn't go there, similar build but mine had AFR heads and not GT40's among other things.

97 mph, it's got some horsepower to run into the 13's easily but I ain't sure it's gonna happen with 3.08 gears.

Another friend (who's dead now) ran a VERY similar engine/trans setup in a '88 Mustang (MAF swapped as well) with 3.08's and nitrous. Left the line with a flat footed side step of the clutch. Every time you'd think the car was going to rip itself apart but then a half hour later when it crossed the finish line, it was less than impressive. I drove it a time or two as well and first gear was ok, but petered out the more shifts it made. I think my little 4 cylinder might take it. Reminds me...the poor boy's stick shift class runs Saturday. May run mine.
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post #30 of 49 Unread 05-03-2019, 11:27 AM
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I suggest the OP buy a set of these and drive hunched over whenever he takes the car out.



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post #31 of 49 Unread 05-03-2019, 04:22 PM
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This thread made my day.


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post #32 of 49 Unread 05-04-2019, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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My guess is you'll you'll not get a response... I have the feeling OP is not getting the answers he wants.
97 mph is good for 13.7's, even in poor air with 1.8 60's... at least in my experience... and I've been there.
So, we are dealing with a thread more about how awesome it'll be with 12psi and 3.08's... than we are with lets get this thing sorted.
Too bad, I was excited about a Ford iron head thread.
Look man, no need to get sour. Just looking for input on why this car might be running on par with the last 3 stock/bolt on cars I've owned despite have heads, a cam, and intake. Are 3.73 gears going to help? Maybe, tough to say when the car wont turn more than 5500rpms. Even if the car was on a decent tire, it would still 60 like crap. It cant manage to spin a dry rotted wang chung 225/45/17 tire. I'm not even sure it's a 3.08 gear, dude I got it from said it had stock gears. Might be 3.27s, might be 2.73s. And yeah, 97mph is good for about 13.7. I was there too, in a stock 01 GT about 16 years ago.

As predicted, I'd say I'm a pretty decent driver. Yall actin like I went out and made a balls out pass in a lowered fox with 17in wheels. Car did a 2.0 60'. I stopped by the track on my way home from work and made a pass.

Video of driving for reference.

As far as getting the car sorted out. I pulled the valve covers, good springs. Bought a new maf and plugs. My guess is that its leaning out up top. It's getting a new pump regardless. Question is should the 19lbers be enough for this setup or should I go up to 24s?

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post #33 of 49 Unread 05-04-2019, 02:07 AM
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Your driving looks fine. Guess your car is just a turd.

Since you bought it that way, maybe tune is bad or parts are worn.
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post #34 of 49 Unread 05-04-2019, 07:32 AM
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Thumbs up

Runsonboost thanks for that vid. Looks like a ton of fun regardless. Your driving is fine, thatís part of the fun of racing a stick car. I liked when the arm rest compartment came open!

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post #35 of 49 Unread 05-04-2019, 11:48 AM
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Sounds good. LOL!
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