New to me 1995 Cobra that's been sitting - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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New to me 1995 Cobra that's been sitting

I picked up a 1995 Cobra a couple of weeks ago that had been sitting quite a bit. Only 1000 miles put on it in the last 6 years or so and has 50k miles on it now. It ran a little rough, but is doing better the more miles i put on her.

Last weekend i replaced the spark plugs, wires, coil, air filter and fuel filter. I also sprayed the MAF sensor with some cleaner. I have been using a bottle of Chevron Tekron in the last 3 tanks of premium.

The car still doesn't want to pull past 3500-4000 rpm and i get some slight pinging. Runs great below 3500. I have verified the timing is set at 11 degrees. This weekend i plan to install an O/R x pipe and new o2 sensors. I also have a new 190lph fuel pump i'll install when this tank gets low.

Anything else you would perform maintenance on? My hope the new fuel pump and o2 sensors cure the low power past 3500rpm. I've had a few people say to replace the entire fuel tank. Thoughts?

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post #2 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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Hoping part swapping is going to fix it?

Good luck

You could diagnose and actually learn something and really fix it

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post #3 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Not part swapping at all. All parts on the car are 20 years old- well past time for a tune up and to replace a couple sensors. Fuel pump is being replaced from sitting so long with potentially bad fuel along with a whine.
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post #4 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 04:17 PM
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My mustang sat for 10 years and the major thing she needed was a new fuel pump and fuel filter. Depending on the quality of fuel left in there, it could have harmed the fuel pump and clogged the filter. Best guess as to why you are not getting much above 4,000 rpms.

BEFORE that, I would pull your plugs and then diagnose. You could also have a dried gasket leaking coolant into cylinders. Definitely will induce pinging feel. Your plugs will look greenish if this is correct.

Also, they will look very 'dry' if you are running lean. Lean can be a multitude of things: lack of fuel pressure, bad O2 senors, MAF sensor...
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post #5 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bguetter View Post
Not part swapping at all. All parts on the car are 20 years old- well past time for a tune up and to replace a couple sensors. Fuel pump is being replaced from sitting so long with potentially bad fuel along with a whine.
if you said you are doing preventative maintenance, sure

but you have a problem, not willing to diagnose, and will replace parts based on time

loss of a education opportunity i see

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post #6 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cornman View Post
My mustang sat for 10 years and the major thing she needed was a new fuel pump and fuel filter. Depending on the quality of fuel left in there, it could have harmed the fuel pump and clogged the filter. Best guess as to why you are not getting much above 4,000 rpms.

BEFORE that, I would pull your plugs and then diagnose. You could also have a dried gasket leaking coolant into cylinders. Definitely will induce pinging feel. Your plugs will look greenish if this is correct.

Also, they will look very 'dry' if you are running lean. Lean can be a multitude of things: lack of fuel pressure, bad O2 senors, MAF sensor...
Thanks Cornman. Changed plugs last weekend. Old plugs looks 'sightly' dry, but nothing too unusual. Noticeable improvement after the tuneup, but still falls off in the upper rpms. How bad was your actual tank from sitting that long? I'm wondering if i'll need to clean/replace the tank. I guess i'll see when i drop it to change the pump.
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post #7 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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if you said you are doing preventative maintenance, sure

but you have a problem, not willing to diagnose, and will replace parts based on time

loss of a education opportunity i see
not willing to diagnose? Again, not at all. First step, for me, is to replace the neglected parts that needed to be replaced a LONG time ago. Maybe you would do it differently and leave all the old stuff on the car. Not me. Why in the world would i leave 20+ year old plugs, wires, filters, o2 sensors, etc in the car? Should i have tested each wire and plug and the coil prior to just replacing? Just to say i was diagnosing? Should i have flow and particle tested my air filter prior to replacing? I mean, that would have diagnosed the condition. Sorry, i'd rather just give a 20+ year old car a good tune up and replace the wearable items. If i have to drop the tank to 'diagnose' a fuel pump, why not just replace it when i have the tank dropped?
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post #8 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 05:58 PM
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You have a drivability problem. Why not diagnose what’s actually going awry? Then when the problem is solved, you can replace all the feel good parts you want.


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post #9 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 06:27 PM
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POSTER, just doesn’t get it

Posts on the parts to change, and asks for ideas to change more parts

And oh, btw, i have a problem, wont rev past a certain rpm....

Good luck

Load up the parts cannon>>>

Change em all, then if the problem persists, post back for diagnosing help

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post #10 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 04:43 AM
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Did you change the plug wires? If not, turn the engine on with the hood open at night in the dark and look for a light show. Sure, you should diagnose like said above, but why not rule out the easy things first.


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post #11 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Did you change the plug wires? If not, turn the engine on with the hood open at night in the dark and look for a light show. Sure, you should diagnose like said above, but why not rule out the easy things first.
Thanks Killer95Stang. Yes, i replaced the plug wires. That was my thought too, just replace the easy tune up items first and address a noisy fuel pump that sat in old fuel for a long time.
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post #12 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
POSTER, just doesn’t get it

Posts on the parts to change, and asks for ideas to change more parts

And oh, btw, i have a problem, wont rev past a certain rpm....

Good luck

Load up the parts cannon>>>

Change em all, then if the problem persists, post back for diagnosing help

You have yet to actually offer a specific suggestion other than criticism. What would you specifically check first? I'm honestly asking. Help point me in the right direction, if it were your car, what would be your next move? Thank you in advance!
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post #13 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Plug in a fuel pressure gauge that you can see while driving and see if it is holding pressure at the rpm where it starts to break up. If it is then you can dig into the tank, pumps, etc.

I see no problem with replacing all of that crap you listed if the car has been sitting. Who knows how old any of that stuff is.
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post #14 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Plug in a fuel pressure gauge that you can see while driving and see if it is holding pressure at the rpm where it starts to break up. If it is then you can dig into the tank, pumps, etc.

I see no problem with replacing all of that crap you listed if the car has been sitting. Who knows how old any of that stuff is.
Thanks AL P. I'll look into that right away.
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post #15 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 10:37 AM
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Thanks AL P. I'll look into that right away.
Sorry, I meant to say that if it ISN'T holding fuel pressure then you can dig into the tanks and pumps, etc. If it holds the pressure then you've probably got an issue related to the ignition or more likely the ignition pickup in the distributor. The distributor pickups are notorious for being junk if they are not the OEM part.

Have you asked the prior owner why the car was parked? Was it because of this issue?
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post #16 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry, I meant to say that if it ISN'T holding fuel pressure then you can dig into the tanks and pumps, etc. If it holds the pressure then you've probably got an issue related to the ignition or more likely the ignition pickup in the distributor. The distributor pickups are notorious for being junk if they are not the OEM part.

Have you asked the prior owner why the car was parked? Was it because of this issue?
I figured that is what you meant. Just ordered a fuel pressure test gauge with hose long enough to tape to the windshield if needed. Good tip on the distributor pickup, thanks.

Car was owned by an older gentleman with a small collection of about 12 mustangs in his shed. He had failing health and most of his cars ended up just sitting over the past 6 years. He wasn't aware of this issue specifically, but was honest that he had neglected maintenance and it would need some work to bring it back. My first order of business was to change all fluids and give it a tune up. I'm worried about what old fuel may have done to the system just sitting. Like i said, the more i drive it, the better and better it seems to run.
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post #17 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 02:53 PM
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My vacuum lines were crumbling away and my fuel return line was ready to start leaking. Fuel lines are known hazards when they get old. My motor mounts were also disintegrating.

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My vacuum lines were crumbling away and my fuel return line was ready to start leaking. Fuel lines are known hazards when they get old. My motor mounts were also disintegrating.
Thank you! Definitely things i have not looked at yet and will check this weekend.
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post #19 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 03:28 PM
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Hoses, belt, water pump, oil pan gasket, valve cover gaskets, anything that would have deteriorated over time.
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post #20 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 03:47 PM
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Since youve been driving it around somewhat & the ecu has had time to pickup any codes that might be present,from an engine management issue,etc,it wouldn't hurt to run a code test on it.You don't even need a scanner.Just a short jumper wire and your cel/mil.The following link details the jumper wire connection steps and the test instructions.Make sure the engine is at operating temp,the ac is off and the shifter is in neutral (if 5 speed)
DIY KOEO/KOER/Cylinder Balance Self-Test Procedure

If you don't mind spending some time to run some tests,it might save you $100+ if the o2 sensors turn out being ok.If you do run codes on it & lean codes pop up,that doesn't necessarily mean the o2 sensors are bad.Many things can cause lean codes/conditions,with the #1 being a vacuum leak,so check for leaks.Just to rule it out,remove the vacuum hose from the egr valve,plug the hose then take it for a test drive (ignore any check engine light during this test) If the pinging/rpm issue disappears,trouble shoot the egr system.When the ecu signals the evr solenoid to open the egr valve,the exhaust gases enter the engine which triggers the ecu to lean the fuel mixture & also to add timing advance.So if the egr valve is commanded open,but something is triggering the egr valve to stay closed,exhaust gases wont get sent into the engine,but the ecu will still lean the mixture & add timing advance,but this can cause pinging since the gases weren't released into the engine.
I would wait on replacing the gas tank until you see what condition its in.If the new fuel pump doesn't come with one included,be sure to replace the "S" hose that runs between the pump & the pump bracket assembly.
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post #21 of 29 Old 04-12-2019, 11:41 PM
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You have yet to actually offer a specific suggestion other than criticism. What would you specifically check first? I'm honestly asking. Help point me in the right direction, if it were your car, what would be your next move? Thank you in advance!
pick a direction

fuel

spark

air

which one do you want to start with?

no spoon feeding.........if it were me I would start with the easiest

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post #22 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Since youve been driving it around somewhat & the ecu has had time to pickup any codes that might be present,from an engine management issue,etc,it wouldn't hurt to run a code test on it.You don't even need a scanner.Just a short jumper wire and your cel/mil.The following link details the jumper wire connection steps and the test instructions.Make sure the engine is at operating temp,the ac is off and the shifter is in neutral (if 5 speed)
DIY KOEO/KOER/Cylinder Balance Self-Test Procedure

If you don't mind spending some time to run some tests,it might save you $100+ if the o2 sensors turn out being ok.If you do run codes on it & lean codes pop up,that doesn't necessarily mean the o2 sensors are bad.Many things can cause lean codes/conditions,with the #1 being a vacuum leak,so check for leaks.Just to rule it out,remove the vacuum hose from the egr valve,plug the hose then take it for a test drive (ignore any check engine light during this test) If the pinging/rpm issue disappears,trouble shoot the egr system.When the ecu signals the evr solenoid to open the egr valve,the exhaust gases enter the engine which triggers the ecu to lean the fuel mixture & also to add timing advance.So if the egr valve is commanded open,but something is triggering the egr valve to stay closed,exhaust gases wont get sent into the engine,but the ecu will still lean the mixture & add timing advance,but this can cause pinging since the gases weren't released into the engine.
I would wait on replacing the gas tank until you see what condition its in.If the new fuel pump doesn't come with one included,be sure to replace the "S" hose that runs between the pump & the pump bracket assembly.
Had a few minutes last night to pull codes. I went ahead and ordered a Ford OBDI reader to make it a little easier to read codes. The only code i got was 172, right bank lean. I have replaced 02 sensors with no change. I will start checking for vacuum leaks this evening. Any particular area more prone than others? The car only has 50k miles and all rubber under the hood 'looks' and feels in good shape. Thanks for the EGR procedure, i will run through this tonight.
Why only ride side bank code? I would think if i had a vacuum leak, bad fuel pump, regulator, etc. it would go lean on both banks? Anyone have some insight on this?
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post #23 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 09:35 AM
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not willing to diagnose? Again, not at all. First step, for me, is to replace the neglected parts that needed to be replaced a LONG time ago. Maybe you would do it differently and leave all the old stuff on the car. Not me. Why in the world would i leave 20+ year old plugs, wires, filters, o2 sensors, etc in the car? Should i have tested each wire and plug and the coil prior to just replacing? Just to say i was diagnosing? Should i have flow and particle tested my air filter prior to replacing? I mean, that would have diagnosed the condition. Sorry, i'd rather just give a 20+ year old car a good tune up and replace the wearable items. If i have to drop the tank to 'diagnose' a fuel pump, why not just replace it when i have the tank dropped?
please dont tell my 1966 mustang that parts need to be swapped out just cause they are old.... i have replaced what was needed when it's needed... like rear main seal in the 289... but as far as i know the points have been on that car for AT least 25 years without a replacement set put on. before that i am not sure when the points were replaced.. i just know i've never done it... and it's been around my shop for 25 years.
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please dont tell my 1966 mustang that parts need to be swapped out just cause they are old.... i have replaced what was needed when it's needed... like rear main seal in the 289... but as far as i know the points have been on that car for AT least 25 years without a replacement set put on. before that i am not sure when the points were replaced.. i just know i've never done it... and it's been around my shop for 25 years.
That's awesome and very cool!
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post #25 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 03:57 PM
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Had a few minutes last night to pull codes. I went ahead and ordered a Ford OBDI reader to make it a little easier to read codes. The only code i got was 172, right bank lean. I have replaced 02 sensors with no change. I will start checking for vacuum leaks this evening. Any particular area more prone than others? The car only has 50k miles and all rubber under the hood 'looks' and feels in good shape. Thanks for the EGR procedure, i will run through this tonight.
Why only ride side bank code? I would think if i had a vacuum leak, bad fuel pump, regulator, etc. it would go lean on both banks? Anyone have some insight on this?
i wouldn't recommend you do this. but i always take a small shot of either or flammable brake cleaner and spray it under the plenum. if there is a leak, it finds it pretty quick.

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post #26 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 06:16 PM
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Plumbers propane torch works great for finding vacuum leaks. Just open the valve (do not light) and run around hoses, intake etc. It will smooth out when the raw propane is by the leak. Best thing is there is no leak.
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post #27 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 07:14 PM
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Why only ride side bank code? I would think if i had a vacuum leak, bad fuel pump, regulator, etc. it would go lean on both banks? Anyone have some insight on this?
When a vacuum leak occurs,the specific location of the leak usually determines whether a lean code/condition will be triggered on one bank only or both banks.There are also plenty of locations where vacuum leaks can occur besides just the vacuum hoses.Hoses and vacuum fittings where those hoses are connected are indeed the first places where you should search for leaks,but there are numerous other places to search next.Gaskets (upper & lower intake,egr valve,evp sensor,iac valve, injector orings,throttle body,etc,etc) Smog solenoids & valves,brake booster check valve/ grommet,pcv valve/grommet,air intake hose, etc,etc.
As far as banks go,& as an example,lets say you have an oring thats bad on cylinder #5's injector and its creating a vacuum leak.Since its located on the driver side engine bank,the driver side o2 sensor is gonna pickup the extra oxygen in the hpipe & that's gonna trigger the ecu to set a lean code for the driver side bank only instead of both banks.If the lower intake gasket is leaking on the passenger side,the passenger side o2 sensor will trigger a lean code for that bank only.If the pcv valve is leaking at the grommet,its gonna trigger a code for both banks since its not specific to one bank only.If a vacuum hose thats connected to the upper intake is leaking,its also gonna trigger a code for both banks.
Its always recommended to use a smoke machine,etc to safely search for vacuum leaks,but since most of us don't have access to one,other methods can be used if you're careful and you have a fire extinguisher on hand,just in case.I prefer using propane.I just get a small handheld propane torch available at any hardware store,dept store,etc and a 1-2' long piece of rubber hose.Unscrew the long pipe from the torches gas valve & connect one end of the hose to the valve nipple.Start the engine and let it idle,open the torch valve slightly so propane escapes and begin to pass the hose over any surface where a leak could possibly exist.If you pass over an area/component which causes the engine idle to surge upwards,youve just found your leak.Make sure you don't have a breathered oil fill cap on the passenger valve cover,if your oem pcv system is being used,since it will allow unmetered air into the engine (some 5.0's seem to be less affected by a breathered cap than others)
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post #28 of 29 Old 04-16-2019, 09:51 PM
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a small air leak is not usually going to trip the CEL

stick a voltmeter on the 02 at the ecm

get the engine nice and hot, record the voltage

it should swing between 0-1v a few times a second

then snap the throttle to WOT, while watching, the 02 better go to 1v and stay there for a few seconds

if it dont move, move to the 02 sensor, unplug it and measure

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post #29 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 04:57 PM
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....the car still doesn't want to pull past 3500-4000 rpm and i get some slight pinging. Runs great below 3500.
Did you pull the plug on the ignition system before checking the timing?

You will never get a good timing if you don't pull it. It will die at mid-range and start pinging.

Otherwise, the 1995 Cobra is a great car with increasing price values.

I have a 1995 Cobra R and just sold a 1994 Cobra.
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