Are electric water pumps really that helpful? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Are electric water pumps really that helpful?

Is a electric water pump worth the $$$ and effort for a street/strip 5.0 or are they more for the track guys who want to circulate the water between rounds. When we did the H/C/I on my son's 85GT we installed a stock replacement aluminum water pump and it felt really lightweight and has performed flawless and the engine runs really good temps in all weather. We were considering going to electric but wasn't sure if it was worth it or even smart on a 5.0 that sees a lot of street duty. I've been weighing the pros and cons and here is what it boils down to. The mechanical works great and the odds of it leaving us stranded out on the road is next to zero and the underdrive crank pulley helps the engine spin it easier. My concern with the electric is: Do you really gain that much power when you factor in the alternator turning harder to make the amps to run the electric pump and the other concern is with a car that sees a lot of street use, my fear would be that all it takes is a popped fuse, electric motor glitch, or controller issues and within seconds , our engine goes into meltdown before we even realize it, unless we happen to be watching the temp gauge constantly. So, is the electric pump a really good idea that makes a good amount of more power or should we stick to the old tried and true mechanical pump for street/strip duty and put that $500+ into something else?? Thanks!


Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #2 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 12:47 PM
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Out of the 7165 posts that you have I bet 6000 of your questions could be answered by simply "using the search function located in the top right hand side of the screen".

Your question has been answered many, many times before....


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post #3 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Yes Master!

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post #4 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkillr View Post
Out of the 7165 posts that you have I bet 6000 of your questions could be answered by simply "using the search function located in the top right hand side of the screen".

Your question has been answered many, many times before....
If everyone used the search button would there ever be a new post? I think all has been covered since these cars came out.

For OP i think the answer to your question depends on the rest of your sons setup. Will it make more HP with a electric pump yes, but is there some other parts that you could pick up for that price to make a few more ponies? A lot of guys here local run electric pumps on their high dollar builds and the cars see street use, but $500+ is some coin.

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post #5 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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That $500 would get us a nice set of ceramic longtubes with some change left. We don't mind buying the pump if it picks up a decent amount of power, but our biggest concern was reliablity in a street application

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #6 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 01:12 PM
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I love my electric water pump on my race car. Easy to circulate water with the engine of between rounds. My street car actually came with an electric and I took it off and replaced it with an edelbrock mechanical pump. IMO too many thing to go wrong on a street car.

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post #7 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 01:19 PM
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I love my electric water pump on my race car. Easy to circulate water with the engine of between rounds. My street car actually came with an electric and I took it off and replaced it with an edelbrock mechanical pump. IMO too many thing to go wrong on a street car.

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post #8 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 01:42 PM
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An electric water pump will free up 4-8 hp but imo thats a secondary behind the fact that it cools the car better & faster and you have the ability to cool the car between rounds at the track. I ran my Meziere pump for about 4-5 years now and never had an issue with it, lots of street miles on it also. Id say its one of the best investments ive made in my car.

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post #9 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 02:35 PM
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The last thing I would want is to be driving in heavy rush hour traffic on I-5 and have my electric water pump decide to crap out. I would use one on a dedicated race car, but not on something that I'm depending on to get me home at night.

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post #10 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 03:06 PM
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If quality components are selected - not sure why anyone would be concerned about reliability. Billions of electric motors out there driving everything under the sun on cars (and in our homes) all quite reliably. Over the years I've changed out a lot more mechanical water pumps and mechanical fuel pumps that bit the bullet than I have cooling fan motors or windshield wiper motors or electric fuel pumps.

Now - whether it's worth it to you or not -- only you can decide that.


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post #11 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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The last thing I would want is to be driving in heavy rush hour traffic on I-5 and have my electric water pump decide to crap out. I would use one on a dedicated race car, but not on something that I'm depending on to get me home at night.
The same exact thing can happen with a mechanical water pump.

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post #12 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 03:39 PM
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Save your $

I have been back and forth with them on my car. I finished with the mech pump and got rid of the electric.

I am now putting the pump on the radiator but that is due to weight and balance reasons with the car.

Stick with the mech I never had a issue with a $30 parts store one

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post #13 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Seems like the meziere pumps have a good reputation and I'm sure electric stuff has gotten better and better over the years. I guess I'm from the old days when the debate was between mechanical or electric fuel pumps. Back in the late 70's/early 80's, if you put a holley electric fuel pump on your car, you'd better have a tow truck on call before you leave the house. I don't hear about that happening much anymore. I'm giving away my age aren't I??

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #14 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 04:10 PM
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Awesome Drag Racing combo is electric water pump & electric fan

I switched to a Meziere pump and I really like it. The HP/TQ gains will sort of depend on what you are currently running. I was already running underdrive pullies so I didn't see as much of a HP/TQ gain as someone running stock pulley ratios will get. The biggest benefit so far is the extremely quick engine cool down I get when using the electric fan & water pump between rounds.

I did a before and after dyno comparison when adding my Meziere pump. Here's the tread with all of the details:
https://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-...-350-rwhp.html

Hope that helps,
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post #15 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 04:47 PM
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12hp for $500 no thanks. Get a Moroso electric WP drive and you can set it up to use when you goto the track to cool the motor between runs. better yet buy a NOS system.

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post #16 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 05:11 PM
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i run the meziere pump on my street car and have had zero problems with it.

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post #17 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! Sounds like my concerns are nothing to be concerned about!

Just an old carpenter with a 94 Cobra and a Son with a nasty 85GT! I'm Show and he's Go!!
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post #18 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkillr View Post
The same exact thing can happen with a mechanical water pump.
I have never seen a mechanical pump "just go". They'll start to seep long before something really bad happens. An electrical component will usually just quit. No thanks. I don't see any upside to an electric waterpump on a street car.

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post #19 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 10:44 PM
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The meziere pumps are rated for 3000 hours even if you got half that would be 1500 and at 2hrs per day 750 days 2+ years . I have the meziere 55gpm pump and my car runs cooler than it did with the 30.00 parts store mechanical pump when in trafic . Dont get me wrong any part can fail at anytime but as for a fuse blowing you should always carry spare fuses and a relay just in case .
Last for those who are running mechanical pumps and dont want to use an electric pump or replaced an electric with a mechanical most of you are running an electric fan guess what they can fail to so you better take it of and put a mechanical fan back on .

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post #20 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 10:47 PM
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Mechanical pumps can and do let go just as catastrophically. The fact that you haven't seen it (wythors) only means - you haven't seen it. Sometimes they seep for quite a while before leaking enough to become a problem. Sometimes there's no seeping at all - you pull up, stop the car and they puke all over the ground. Happens quite regularly. Your sense of security is a figment of your own limited experience. But - if that works for you - that's ok.

The point of all this is simply - pick an electric for efficiency, for the ability to run it with the engine off, whatever. But don't NOT pick one because you feel they're less reliable than a mechanical pump. That's simply not the case.

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post #21 of 37 Old 02-20-2011, 11:20 PM
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I have never seen a mechanical pump "just go". They'll start to seep long before something really bad happens. An electrical component will usually just quit. No thanks. I don't see any upside to an electric waterpump on a street car.
I've seen mechanical pumps lock up, shear the shaft, launch the fan clutch, blade, and shaft segment through radiator, hood, and oil pan.

I've seen em start peeing after no use at all, sitting stil in the driveway.

I've seen mechanical pumps shear shafts and let the impeller free, with no notice, warning, or indication.

Ive seen impeller assemblies break free, and not turn.

Ive seen impeller segments break off and imbed themselves in pump bodies, locking pumps.

Limited exposure and internet hearsay, are not good reasons to recomend or not recomend a device. Many new cars, GM line in particular, are comming from the factory with not only electic fans, but electric water pumps, and because of the shut down at idle fuel savings, also electric air compressors for AC.

Worlds come a long way in the last 30 years, and I know the favorite montra on here is put a carb on it, and return your car to the 60s. Truth be told, some poeple like leaning forward.


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post #22 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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I saw a article that said in 2012 Ford was going to start making their cars so that if you hit the brakes or come to a complete stop, the engine will shut off to save fuel and then restart the instant you hit the gas pedal again. They said they would have to go to some type of electric water pump so the water would keep circulating at a stop. I think they said the A/C would also be driven by a electric motor so you would have A/C if the engine is off and your stopped in traffic.

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post #23 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 09:47 AM
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I have never seen a mechanical pump "just go". They'll start to seep long before something really bad happens. An electrical component will usually just quit. No thanks. I don't see any upside to an electric waterpump on a street car.
Hahahaha! Bud your just showing your limited experience here with this statement.

Have you owned both? Have you tested with both for years?

No to both.....

Then you are not qualified to make these statements.

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post #24 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
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I have never seen a mechanical pump "just go". They'll start to seep long before something really bad happens. An electrical component will usually just quit. No thanks. I don't see any upside to an electric waterpump on a street car.
definately limited experience, with that statement, seen it plenty of times and FYI, there are more than a few cars out there with elec water pumps from the factory, such as the late model bmw 3 or 5 series, seen plenty of those with 70k+ and no failure yet.
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post #25 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 11:50 AM
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I'd like to put an electric water pump on my car, it doesn't see much day to day drivning. I just don't feel like spending the coin on one. If you buy one, buy a good one.

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post #26 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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I'd like to put an electric water pump on my car, it doesn't see much day to day drivning. I just don't feel like spending the coin on one. If you buy one, buy a good one.
From what I've seen and from searchs I've done, I don't think I've seen any complaints or failures with the Meziere water pumps, so they seem to be the way to go. Too bad they are so $$$$

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post #27 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 05:44 PM
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I'm not sure what the ultimate benefit of an electric water pump is other than it enables you to run the pump when the engine is off. There is no free lunch here, if your running the electric pump to free up horsepower your just putting a bigger load on the charging system negating the benefit. I'm not sure what the point is.
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post #28 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what the ultimate benefit of an electric water pump is other than it enables you to run the pump when the engine is off. There is no free lunch here, if your running the electric pump to free up horsepower your just putting a bigger load on the charging system negating the benefit. I'm not sure what the point is.
It would be nice to know exactly how much power you gain from eliminating the mechanical pump and then see how much power you lose from the alternator load to see the exact payoff. A alternator can crank pretty hard under load, because I even have crank and alternator underdrive pulleys on my 94 cobra and when the factory fan kicks on, it will pull the rpms down a hundred rpm's or so at idle when it first kicks on-I run a 89 A9L computer that does not have a "fan Factor" in it, so my rpms don't pick up when the fan kicks on. I was suprised how much load that puts on the alternator.

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post #29 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 06:57 PM
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Do you guys that go to the strip install a switch that allows you to turn the water pump off before you make a pass like most people do with an electric fan?

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post #30 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 08:33 PM
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Meizere pump here. I really like it. I would never go back to a mechanical pump for how I use the car.

Cooling the car down between rounds is a breeze. It keeps the car very consistant in the hot weather as I run two classes back to back and hotlapping is the norm. To do this you have to run a restrictor instead of a thermostat. I shut it off when I make a pass or a dyno pull. Has the idler pulley on the front of it, which keeps belt routing simple.

Car runs cooler on the street, stop and go traffic on the way home from work in 100 degree weather is no problem. I had trouble with the stock mechnical unit because it wasnt moving enough water at idle. The electric pump is constant flow, which is good for heat transfer. I don`t use a pump speed controller, but I know some guys use them with an electric pump to slow the pump down when the ambient temperature is low to keep heat in the motor when not using a Tstat on the street.

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post #31 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 09:43 PM
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Those of you that run electric pumps, what modifications have you done to your thermostat?

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post #32 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 10:25 PM
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Do you guys that go to the strip install a switch that allows you to turn the water pump off before you make a pass like most people do with an electric fan?
No, you wouldnt want to do that, you'd blow head gaskets all the time. Heads would be VERY hot, and no water moving at all. The mechanical pump gone, If the engine is running the water pump should be running to get rid of steam.


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post #33 of 37 Old 02-21-2011, 10:26 PM
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Those of you that run electric pumps, what modifications have you done to your thermostat?
Its recomended to NOT run a thermostat, but a flow restrictor. I run a 3/4" open restrictor.


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post #34 of 37 Old 02-22-2011, 12:12 AM
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Thanks. I figured most would be running a restrictor just to keep the fluid from flowing through the engine too fast and not soaking up enough heat. Are you still running the bypass hose as well?

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post #35 of 37 Old 02-22-2011, 07:10 AM
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no-where to bypass into. Pump doesn't have provision for it. My mech temp sender is in one hole, a pipe plug is in the other.


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