On 3 turbo dyno vid

[kolb02]

Here is a quick vid on the dyno. Car is bone stock 5.0 with 140k on the motor. Made 433rwhp and 556rwtq. Pretty happy.

[Journeyman]

Nice, looks like a budget friendly build. How stock is your engine? I see an explorer intake?

[kolb02]

Yep, total budget build. I only have $4k in the car total. The only mod to the motor is the intake. Bone stock! I just need to get a paint job now.

[MY 93 GT]

Originally Posted by kolb02

Yep, total budget build. I only have $4k in the car total. The only mod to the motor is the intake. Bone stock! I just need to get a paint job now.

WELL MY DYNO NUMBERS MUST BE WAY OFF THEN...LOL..How much boost you making?...What dyno is it? I have way more motor work then...Maybe mine is off....lol

[NXLSC]

556tq. nice fun ride

[MY 93 GT]

I want mine re-dynoed..LOL...Now i have to find another dyno shop to throw it on and see what they get...

[2Guard]

how much boost?? Damn man those are some great numbers.

[chinopsu]

and through an AOD?... wow

[kolb02]

I have had it on 2 different dyno's both within 5hp and 10tq of each other. They are both dynojets. I have the 13psi spring in the tial gate but I only see about 10 cause im at high elevation. We lose boost cause of that. And I want to thank Chris at Power Adder Solutions for all the help with tuning. What a great guy!

[fmyth]

Congrats!

[zuritausmc]

Nice man. What turbo did you go with on the kit?

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by kolb02

I have had it on 2 different dyno's both within 5hp and 10tq of each other. They are both dynojets. I have the 13psi spring in the tial gate but I only see about 10 cause im at high elevation. We lose boost cause of that. And I want to thank Chris at Power Adder Solutions for all the help with tuning. What a great guy!

The pressure drop you are seeing is due to the losses associated with the intercooler and cold side piping. Both your boost gauge and your wastegate read off of a gauge reference meaning absolute - atmospheric pressure. Your boost gauge always reads 0 regardless of your elevation (assuming it’s a mechanical). If you are at 5k feet, the pressure at 5k feet is your starting reference for the boost gauge and wastegate. If you want to run 13psi, switch your vacuum reference for the wastegate from the turbo to the manifold. If that little amount of vacuum worries you, add a one way check-valve to the line to prevent it.

I'd check your dyno charts too, as I'd bet they applied SAE correction to them. If you are at a higher elevation, full SAE should NOT be applied to turbo applications as it will artificially inflate the HP and TQ numbers. Remember, the turbo is in essence creating its own atmosphere...so you can't fully apply atmospheric correction (elevation). You will lose some HP/TQ, but the amounts are FAR less than a N/A vehicle would lose.

[MY 93 GT]

Something is off NO?..I have way more motor and i see 14 psi...i make less...lol..unless the dyno they used sucked...LOL...

[boosted93v]

Originally Posted by MY 93 GT

Something is off NO?..I have way more motor and i see 14 psi...i make less...lol..unless the dyno they used sucked...LOL...

alot of dynos will read diffrent dude.. Just cause you have way more done on your motor and on 14 psi doesnt mean youll make more hp.. your motor could be wore out, ####ty tune, etc

[boosted93v]

Kolb what do you all have done to the AOD man??

[2Guard]

Originally Posted by MY 93 GT

Something is off NO?..I have way more motor and i see 14 psi...i make less...lol..unless the dyno they used sucked...LOL...

I feel the same way. NOT calling B.S on op but damn, makes me think what have i been doing wrong..

Congrats.

[kolb02]

Originally Posted by millhouse

The pressure drop you are seeing is due to the losses associated with the intercooler and cold side piping. Both your boost gauge and your wastegate read off of a gauge reference meaning absolute - atmospheric pressure. Your boost gauge always reads 0 regardless of your elevation (assuming it’s a mechanical). If you are at 5k feet, the pressure at 5k feet is your starting reference for the boost gauge and wastegate. If you want to run 13psi, switch your vacuum reference for the wastegate from the turbo to the manifold. If that little amount of vacuum worries you, add a one way check-valve to the line to prevent it.

I'd check your dyno charts too, as I'd bet they applied SAE correction to them. If you are at a higher elevation, full SAE should NOT be applied to turbo applications as it will artificially inflate the HP and TQ numbers. Remember, the turbo is in essence creating its own atmosphere...so you can't fully apply atmospheric correction (elevation). You will lose some HP/TQ, but the amounts are FAR less than a N/A vehicle would lose.

Millhouse, I'm not an expert but I own a shop and have tuned mustangs up here for 10 years and you lose 2-3 psi no matter turbo or blower. I go to sea level and gain it back. Have you ever experienced 7000ft of DA? It kills boost and power. NA cars are a full second slower in the 1320 up here and boosted cars are about .7-.5 slower. Doesn't everyone do SAE no matter what elevation? I'm not sure about that, I'm no expert but Dynojets shop is in our backyard and they don't seem to think so. I used our own dyno and dynojets and they both read the same. I also had my other turbo car dynoed at Brenspeed in IN. and It was within 5-10 as the two up here. Im not nocking on you millhouse just stating my actual results from different dynos across the country. It would be interesting to take the SAE off the dyno and see what it makes. I will try that next week as my buddy lets me dyno for free for helping him out with his car all the time.

[kolb02]

The AOD has a Silverfox trans valve body in it. Otherwise its a stock AOD.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by kolb02

Millhouse, I'm not an expert but I own a shop and have tuned mustangs up here for 10 years and you lose 2-3 psi no matter turbo or blower. I go to sea level and gain it back. Have you ever experienced 7000ft of DA? It kills boost and power. NA cars are a full second slower in the 1320 up here and boosted cars are about .7-.5 slower. Doesn't everyone do SAE no matter what elevation? I'm not sure about that, I'm no expert but Dynojets shop is in our backyard and they don't seem to think so. I used our own dyno and dynojets and they both read the same. I also had my other turbo car dynoed at Brenspeed in IN. and It was within 5-10 as the two up here. Im not nocking on you millhouse just stating my actual results from different dynos across the country. It would be interesting to take the SAE off the dyno and see what it makes. I will try that next week as my buddy lets me dyno for free for helping him out with his car all the time.

You will only lose boost if your turbo is pushed off the compressor map (maxed out). Otherwise, you will produce identical boost (were talking gauge pressure here). That is all controlled by the wastegate (which uses gauge pressure).

Supercharges and blowers are completely different beasts and have no way to regulate their pressure levels. They absolutely will lose pressure with elevation.

You simply can't use SAE correction on turbo'd vehicles at higher elevations. I'm not sure if it's possible to turn of just the DA correction or not, but it's possible to just the STD values. While they may not be 100% on, they will likely be far more accurate.

[jturmanator]

I made 440 HP and 500lb torque on a stock 67k mile motor with GT40 head and explorer intake running 110 octane with 10lbs of boost. Dynojet. Oh and I have a T5.

[allenpeake]

grats sounds good
i am at 6500ft and n/a cars are down about 1 sec off up here from sea level

[MY 93 GT]

Originally Posted by boosted93v

alot of dynos will read diffrent dude.. Just cause you have way more done on your motor and on 14 psi doesnt mean youll make more hp.. your motor could be wore out, ####ty tune, etc

True but i think my motor is in very good shape...I know my tune is set up safe..so i know its leaving HP on the table...

[MY 93 GT]

Originally Posted by millhouse

You will only lose boost if your turbo is pushed off the compressor map (maxed out). Otherwise, you will produce identical boost (were talking gauge pressure here). That is all controlled by the wastegate (which uses gauge pressure).

Supercharges and blowers are completely different beasts and have no way to regulate their pressure levels. They absolutely will lose pressure with elevation.

You simply can't use SAE correction on turbo'd vehicles at higher elevations. I'm not sure if it's possible to turn of just the DA correction or not, but it's possible to just the STD values. While they may not be 100% on, they will likely be far more accurate.

So SAE numbers are Golrified numbers?

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by MY 93 GT

So SAE numbers are Golrified numbers?

SAE numbers work great for what they were intended...to correct n/a applications.

[kolb02]

Originally Posted by millhouse

You will only lose boost if your turbo is pushed off the compressor map (maxed out). Otherwise, you will produce identical boost (were talking gauge pressure here). That is all controlled by the wastegate (which uses gauge pressure).

Supercharges and blowers are completely different beasts and have no way to regulate their pressure levels. They absolutely will lose pressure with elevation.

You simply can't use SAE correction on turbo'd vehicles at higher elevations. I'm not sure if it's possible to turn of just the DA correction or not, but it's possible to just the STD values. While they may not be 100% on, they will likely be far more accurate.

So why are my numbers the same at sea level as they are at 7000ft DA? Its cause it is SAE corrected right? All I know is if you come up here you will lose 2-3 psi from sea level. No matter turbo or blower. Its a fact. Thats why top fuel in Denver get to spin the blower faster.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by kolb02

So why are my numbers the same at sea level as they are at 7000ft DA? Its cause it is SAE corrected right? All I know is if you come up here you will lose 2-3 psi from sea level. No matter turbo or blower. Its a fact. Thats why top fuel in Denver get to spin the blower faster.

Again, you won't lose 2-3 psi with a turbo unless you are maxing it out. The boost as measured by gauge pressure will be identical at sea level as it is 7000ft DA. A blower is not a turbo and does not have a means to compensate for pressure like a turbo's wastegate does. Superchargers and blowers will have to overdrive their systems by swapping pulleys to compensate. Turbo's (wastegates) do it automatically.

If you aren't paying attention, it is possible that some places won't apply SAE correction while others will. Look at your dyno read-outs and see if they are SAE or STD.

[kolb02]

All my runs are SAE corrected. My last turbo car was dynoed about 150 times on 4 different dynos in 3 different states. They all were SAE. Millhouse you have me 2nd guessing things, but I only use the dyno as a tool. The tack is where it matters to me. I will be going there next weekend.

[MY 93 GT]

Originally Posted by millhouse

Again, you won't lose 2-3 psi with a turbo unless you are maxing it out. The boost as measured by gauge pressure will be identical at sea level as it is 7000ft DA. A blower is not a turbo and does not have a means to compensate for pressure like a turbo's wastegate does. Superchargers and blowers will have to overdrive their systems by swapping pulleys to compensate. Turbo's (wastegates) do it automatically.

If you aren't paying attention, it is possible that some places won't apply SAE correction while others will. Look at your dyno read-outs and see if they are SAE or STD.

Ok so its really not making 433 rwhp then with it being SAE?...or is it im confussed....lol.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by kolb02

All my runs are SAE corrected. My last turbo car was dynoed about 150 times on 4 different dynos in 3 different states. They all were SAE. Millhouse you have me 2nd guessing things, but I only use the dyno as a tool. The tack is where it matters to me. I will be going there next weekend.

The track is all the matters for sure. Your numbers do sound inflated however as they are somewhat higher than comparable setups through an auto. SAE correction could easily account for that at higher elevations.

Originally Posted by MY 93 GT

Ok so its really not making 433 rwhp then with it being SAE?...or is it im confussed....lol.

They are probably inflated because of the SAE correction. In the end though, you are looking for how the vehicle is performing at the track.

[zion1015]

Millhouse have you ever had a turbo car that you went to 7000 ft to sea level. My diesel truck is turbo and at higher elevation looses boost every time. So you my friend are wrong dont care what your physics say. That is just what happens and not cool the guy telling you his car looses boost and you not even being there says no it dont.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by zion1015

Millhouse have you ever had a turbo car that you went to 7000 ft to sea level. My diesel truck is turbo and at higher elevation looses boost every time. So you my friend are wrong dont care what your physics say. That is just what happens and not cool the guy telling you his car looses boost and you not even being there says no it dont.

Nope, never have.

There are only a few reasons you would lose boost at higher elevation. Either you have a crappy or defective wastegate (remember wastegates reference off of gauge pressure), your turbo is exceeding it's max efficiency rating, or perhaps you are just not staying in it long enough to reach full boost (you will have more lag at higher elevations).

With a good wastegate and a properly sized turbo, there is no reason to lose any pressure at elevation.

At 5000 ft, the absolute air pressure is 12.2 psi. If you are running 10psi of boost at sea level, instead of seeing an absolute of 24.7 psi(14.7psi sea level +10psi gauge), you would see 22.2 absolute psi (12.2psi at 5k feet + 10psi gauge). Your gauge is going to read the same 10psi regardless of elevation, as it is reading gauge pressure. The wastegate too operates off of gauge pressure.

There are some electronic gauges however that are calibrated to sea level. In those cases, you actually would see a skewed psi reading at higher elevations. It would be an incorrect reading however, as the gauge pressure should remain the same.

[nasty92lx]

Higher elevation = thinner air = less air to be compressed. Therefore less air volume coming through compressor = less air volume being discharged = yup less boost. You cannot compress what is simply not there.

[zion1015]

So you don't know you are speculating hmmmmm

[kolb02]

Originally Posted by nasty92lx

Higher elevation = thinner air = less air to be compressed. Therefore less air volume coming through compressor = less air volume being discharged = yup less boost. You cannot compress what is simply not there.

Your totaly right! Doesn't matter about turbo or blower if the air is thinner it takes more work to make the same PSI or HP. Not bashing anyone but untill you have been at elevation you don't know how much it affects the car.

[chiaj144]

This thread is full of fail. Millhouse is 100 percent correct. On a turbo application 10psi is 10psi over absolute air pressure it doesn't matter what the elevation is. If your turbo isn't making the same boost at higher elevation it's out of it's efficiency range. Nice posts Millhouse.