1990 Fox, stock w/ 2.1L Kenne Bell - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #36 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 12:44 PM
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How do you tag/alert people on this site? does the @ work?

@TK1299 @5.0thunder

see post #34 please
Yes, that works and sends us a notification that we've been summoned.

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3" dia pulley.

In other news I had to replace my natural gas water heater this last weekend so I had no progress on my car. Accufab is drop shipping me a correct o-ring for my TB. I still need to install my boost gauge, wire in my wideband gauge, install ECU and get her fired up.

I'm also being told me stock PCV system will not be OK with the blower. Anyone here confirm this? Right now I have my PCV line going to the Flowzilla inlet. I'm not sure what to do with the port on my valve cover either. I'm being told to get a sealed catch can, run my PCV to the catch can, catch can to Flowzilla inlet, my valve cover to intake pre-throttle body. Thoughts?
Idk if I've mentioned this before, but ensure your timing table is set up for boost before you go driving around much. These blowers make instant boost and you could make life suck for a while if you nuke the top end because of a bad table and heavy foot.

As for the PCV system, a lot of guys (myself included) just weld/thread fittings into the valve covers, then plumb from the valve covers and PCV to a catch can. This allows the entire crankcase to breathe at all times, eliminating pressure from the pan and valve covers, meaning no oil puking. Don't route them to the KB, its unnecessary.

Some engines are okay with just a valve cover and PCV routed to the can, some engines need more than that. I'd do both covers and the PCV while you're doing it to just make sure.

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post #37 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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I have an Alkycontrol meth kit on my 2.1 KB and it works very well. I did a lot of reading when looking for a meth kit and most everything said that was the best. From what I know the name brand kits are similar, but the actual pump is where the quality is most important.
Another quick note to maybe help if you have this issue; the 2.1 KB for the GT40 lower was made to fit the 1993 Cobra GT40 lower. The explorer intake isn't the same, most notibly the mounting holes are spaced slightly different. Ergo, you might have alignment issues with the pulleys. I ran into the same alignment issues on my stock 1993 Cobra lower intake that it was supposed to fit. Long story short, KB has different length spacers that help align it. Just a helpful hint to keep you from the headache I went through on my install.
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for 8 psi, I don't think meth will be required at all. Todd (posted above) uses it for like 14psi but since you're tuning with megasquirt, you can just keep the timing modest and you wont detonate. That's the best way about it in my book. Either run a good fuel or tune to prevent detonation. Your stock head bolts and gaskets will be fine too as long as you tune well.
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Exercise caution if you are using the Explorer lower with the KB setup. I seem to recall reading about alignment troubles on TMOSS's website under this exact circumstance.


EDIT: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...EdU2Os3rQQLNIA

From that article....

"you will need to use any GT40 style lower that uses an F2 (GT40) with the part number found on the front water cross over, F3 (93 Cobra) or F4 (SN Cobra) both part numbers found cast into the driver side of the lower intake. Stay away from lowers that have the part number including F8 found cast into the water cross over as those are the Explorer lowers that have the alignment issue."
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Yes, that works and sends us a notification that we've been summoned.



Idk if I've mentioned this before, but ensure your timing table is set up for boost before you go driving around much. These blowers make instant boost and you could make life suck for a while if you nuke the top end because of a bad table and heavy foot.

As for the PCV system, a lot of guys (myself included) just weld/thread fittings into the valve covers, then plumb from the valve covers and PCV to a catch can. This allows the entire crankcase to breathe at all times, eliminating pressure from the pan and valve covers, meaning no oil puking. Don't route them to the KB, its unnecessary.

Some engines are okay with just a valve cover and PCV routed to the can, some engines need more than that. I'd do both covers and the PCV while you're doing it to just make sure.
I got a base tune designed for boost from Shannon at Stinger and a friend looked at it and said it looked pretty good and conservative.

I'd have to remove my supercharger in order to access the drivers side VC for modification which will suck big time. I was hoping I could get away with just venting the oil filler neck port to a catch can along with the PCV till next winter which is when I'll likely upgrade to aluminum heads.


-Matt

Kenne Bell supercharged & IRS swapped 90' LX 5.0
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post #38 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 01:06 PM
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I got a base tune designed for boost from Shannon at Stinger and a friend looked at it and said it looked pretty good and conservative.
Cool, just making sure.

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I'd have to remove my supercharger in order to access the drivers side VC for modification which will suck big time. I was hoping I could get away with just venting the oil filler neck port to a catch can along with the PCV till next winter which is when I'll likely upgrade to aluminum heads.
In that case, just go ahead and do it. If it doesn't puke, good. If it does, you know what to do. lol
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post #39 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Cool, just making sure.



In that case, just go ahead and do it. If it doesn't puke, good. If it does, you know what to do. lol
Do you know much about tuning? If you do, would you like to look at the tune file? Can I upload msq files here?

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post #40 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 01:31 PM
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Do you know much about tuning? If you do, would you like to look at the tune file? Can I upload msq files here?
I've got a decently solid grasp of tuning mustangs with megasquirt. Still a bunch to learn but I've been doing it for a few years now and currently have two boosted mustangs running on megasquirt ecu's. i'm not 100% sure if you can upload an MSQ but it looks like you can drag/drop files right below the reply box so maybe it'll work.
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post #41 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 01:34 PM
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if not, you can just email PM me and email or something
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post #42 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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I got a base tune designed for boost from Shannon at Stinger and a friend looked at it and said it looked pretty good and conservative.

I'd have to remove my supercharger in order to access the drivers side VC for modification which will suck big time. I was hoping I could get away with just venting the oil filler neck port to a catch can along with the PCV till next winter which is when I'll likely upgrade to aluminum heads.
After more reading I'm getting confused about venting and the PCV. If you run your PCV to a "vented" catch can the PCV will never open since the PCV needs vacuum in order to open. Right? How does the crankcase vent if the pcv does not open?

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post #43 of 72 Old 05-02-2017, 03:40 PM
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After more reading I'm getting confused about venting and the PCV. If you run your PCV to a "vented" catch can the PCV will never open since the PCV needs vacuum in order to open. Right? How does the crankcase vent if the pcv does not open?
under vacuum, the pcv *would* get sucked open from the top side to siphon crankcase vapor into the intake. This eventually gunks up the intake manifold (and your blower). When you run it to a catch can, there is no vacuum to open it, but when the crankcase gets pressurized due to boost blowby, it gets pushed open from the under-side.
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post #44 of 72 Old 05-03-2017, 09:35 AM
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I just run factory pcv on mine. Had the blower off with 15k miles. Very little oil residue. I do have an oil separator on the pcv vac line.
I just tapped the oil filler vent into the silicone elbow on the throttle body with a bulkhead fitting.
Chris
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post #45 of 72 Old 05-03-2017, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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I just run factory pcv on mine. Had the blower off with 15k miles. Very little oil residue. I do have an oil separator on the pcv vac line.
I just tapped the oil filler vent into the silicone elbow on the throttle body with a bulkhead fitting.
Chris
That's a good idea, thanks! I ordered a Jegs air/oil separator today. I'll run my pcv to the separator, then separator to the inlet. I'll either run a mini filter on my oil fill port or I'll do what you suggested with a fitting in the silicone TB coupling.


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post #46 of 72 Old 05-03-2017, 08:05 PM
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Guys this is good information with me looking to also install a Kenne Bell soon ! Thank you for sharing this information.
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post #47 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 06:00 AM
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I ran my PCV "normal" for a good while with no issue. I recently added a steeda catch can and oil cap breather. I run high boost so its beneficial for me to do so.

1993 Cobra: KB 2.1 Flowzilla 14psi, Alkycontrol meth injection
2003 Cobra: K&N / Borla Exhaust
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post #48 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 06:06 AM
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I got a base tune designed for boost from Shannon at Stinger and a friend looked at it and said it looked pretty good and conservative.

I'd have to remove my supercharger in order to access the drivers side VC for modification which will suck big time. I was hoping I could get away with just venting the oil filler neck port to a catch can along with the PCV till next winter which is when I'll likely upgrade to aluminum heads.
you should be fine with just the pass side breather
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post #49 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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I ran my PCV "normal" for a good while with no issue. I recently added a steeda catch can and oil cap breather. I run high boost so its beneficial for me to do so.
No oil mist in your engine bay? I've also heard of a trick which is to get a wrist sweat band and put it around the oil neck filter/breather to prevent an oil mist. Thanks for your input, it's all very helpful.

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post #50 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 04:55 PM
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I have been running the exact same setup on an all STOCK 1989 LX Convertible for 10+ years with no PVC issues ever albeit with a Lentec AOD. No catch can, no mist. (I wish I could say the same about my 96 Cobra)

With the smaller pulley you will want to pull timing under boost and you will want to get the Meth injection too.

I always said I would throw heads and a cam at it when it hurt something but those old 5.0's are hard to kill and she just keeps on kicking ass. Besides my math says the heads and cam will put the block into dangerous territory.
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post #51 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 05:35 PM
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so, it seems the Explorer lowers are not consistent in their bolt pattern drill locations - some of you have used them successfully - good to hear!

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post #52 of 72 Old 05-04-2017, 10:58 PM
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I have been running the exact same setup on an all STOCK 1989 LX Convertible for 10+ years with no PVC issues ever albeit with a Lentec AOD. No catch can, no mist. (I wish I could say the same about my 96 Cobra)

With the smaller pulley you will want to pull timing under boost and you will want to get the Meth injection too.

I always said I would throw heads and a cam at it when it hurt something but those old 5.0's are hard to kill and she just keeps on kicking ass. Besides my math says the heads and cam will put the block into dangerous territory.
^^^^ This. As far as the oil mist goes... I haven't ran it hard enough to give an answer yet. But I clean the engine after almost every drive so even if there is a little mist it will be manageable.

1993 Cobra: KB 2.1 Flowzilla 14psi, Alkycontrol meth injection
2003 Cobra: K&N / Borla Exhaust
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post #53 of 72 Old 05-05-2017, 08:30 AM
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I know what you mean....i passed up one here a month ago not sure what i really wanted to do, but i'm really not happy KB stopped making them for the fox...
I wish they or someone would make a new kit with their new units... Would be a TON of fun on the street.

1993 Cobra #235. Stage 2+ TFS TW heads from TEA, Stage 1 TFS cam, etc.....

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post #54 of 72 Old 05-05-2017, 09:13 AM
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I wish they or someone would make a new kit with their new units... Would be a TON of fun on the street.
A TVS kit would probably be the best thing for these 302's up to 16psi. It'd be sweet if somebody made a kit!
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post #55 of 72 Old 05-05-2017, 10:32 AM
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B&H made one for a quick minute that I believe used a Magnuson unit on it...



Wish they could have continued making them but with one of the new huge KB units...

Not sure if any of them even made it into the publics hands really.

1993 Cobra #235. Stage 2+ TFS TW heads from TEA, Stage 1 TFS cam, etc.....

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post #56 of 72 Old 05-05-2017, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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I have been running the exact same setup on an all STOCK 1989 LX Convertible for 10+ years with no PVC issues ever albeit with a Lentec AOD. No catch can, no mist. (I wish I could say the same about my 96 Cobra)

With the smaller pulley you will want to pull timing under boost and you will want to get the Meth injection too.

I always said I would throw heads and a cam at it when it hurt something but those old 5.0's are hard to kill and she just keeps on kicking ass. Besides my math says the heads and cam will put the block into dangerous territory.
Very good to know, thank you for your input on this subject. How much boost are you running? Do you have any dyno numbers? The weather is getting nice up here in the PNW and I'm seeing many people out driving their very nice muscle cars and classics and I need to get this car done ASAP so I can join them!

-Matt

Kenne Bell supercharged & IRS swapped 90' LX 5.0
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post #57 of 72 Old 05-05-2017, 03:47 PM
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Very good to know, thank you for your input on this subject. How much boost are you running? Do you have any dyno numbers? The weather is getting nice up here in the PNW and I'm seeing many people out driving their very nice muscle cars and classics and I need to get this car done ASAP so I can join them!
I'm running 10 psi or maybe a little more. I also have the smaller pulley on mine. I am up in Michigan now so I feel your pain. Hell we had nicer weather in Feb than we are having now. I'm putting the charger on mine tonight dammit. She's gonna rip some asphalt this weekend!

96 Mystic D1-SC Procharger/ 89 Vert Stock 5.0 w/2.1 Blowzilla, Lentech AOD/ 72 F100 390ci
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Subscribing...

Getting ready to do my KB 2.1 build soon. Have a 94/95 SN95 package I'll be putting in a 91 notch.
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Subscribing...

Getting ready to do my KB 2.1 build soon. Have a 94/95 SN95 package I'll be putting in a 91 notch.
Is this Jim?
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Is this Jim?
Yes Sir Randy, it is I........

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Yes Sir Randy, it is I........
Glad you are getting your KB installed !
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post #62 of 72 Old 05-10-2017, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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So my car is pretty much done now as far as assembly goes. I finished up the power pipe install last night which involves R&R of the passenger side fender liner. I just need to add fluids and install my battery and battery connections and I'll be ready to plug in the computer and begin my sensor calibrations, timing, and initial setup for tuning. Typing this reminds me I need to get gas too. My area is now selling ethanol free premium (91) fuel so I'll get some of that. I'll wait till the weekend to work on start up and idle.
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post #63 of 72 Old 05-10-2017, 09:26 PM
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Good for you man. Glad you're making progress

1993 Cobra: KB 2.1 Flowzilla 14psi, Alkycontrol meth injection
2003 Cobra: K&N / Borla Exhaust
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post #64 of 72 Old 05-19-2017, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
No real progress going on. I tried last Sunday to get the car started and found that I could not do the fresh air calibration on my wideband sensor due to the LED light not working/communicating for some reason. Also, my battery that was on a float charger went belly up on me. Actually they both did, the float and the battery are both toast some how. So I picked up a new battery on Wednesday and haven't had time to try to start it again which will likely either be tonight or tomorrow. I at least got my laptop synced with the Pimp ECU and my sensors calibrated.

Wish me luck.

-Matt

Kenne Bell supercharged & IRS swapped 90' LX 5.0
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post #65 of 72 Old 05-22-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Another update about nothing interesting:

So over the weekend I got my car started and idling. I got the mechanical timing synced with Tuner Studio. The issue with the wideband persists. My Innovate LC-1 is not communicating with my Stinger Pimp ECU nor the "db" gauge. I'm guessing my wideband sensor is bad so I'm removing it all and I just bought a new AEM wideband kit. I should have it Wednesday or so and I'll get back to it. I bought the LC-1 used a while ago so that's the risk we take, right?

-Matt

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post #66 of 72 Old 05-22-2017, 02:13 PM
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You'll like the AEM a lot more I'm sure. you'll want to get that installed before idling a bunch or you may risk fouling the plugs quickly with over-rich AFR's at idle.
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post #67 of 72 Old 05-23-2017, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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You'll like the AEM a lot more I'm sure. you'll want to get that installed before idling a bunch or you may risk fouling the plugs quickly with over-rich AFR's at idle.
AEM seems highly recommended over Innovate. It also seems like the AEM will be easier to install since there isn't the extra pushbutton switch and LED for the heater/fresh air calibration because the AEM is self calibrated. Tracking info suggests that I'll have the new wideband today so I'll be in the garage once I get home. The weather is finally awesome so I actually look forward to working on my car in the garage with an ice cold beer
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post #68 of 72 Old 05-23-2017, 02:02 PM
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AEM seems highly recommended over Innovate. It also seems like the AEM will be easier to install since there isn't the extra pushbutton switch and LED for the heater/fresh air calibration because the AEM is self calibrated. Tracking info suggests that I'll have the new wideband today so I'll be in the garage once I get home. The weather is finally awesome so I actually look forward to working on my car in the garage with an ice cold beer
I didn't want to rip on innovate because I haven't actually owned one, but that's because I always read about people hating the calibration processes, losing calibrations, and just a general sense of dissatisfaction. Then a few people will like them. I personally use autometer widebands but know the AEM's are fine too so i'm sure you'll be happy with it.

if it helps, my cars tend to like around 13.5-14 AFR at warm idle with the warmup enrichment bringing that down to around 12.5 at cold start. When I first started working on the tunes in these cars, they were pegging 10 and i was fouling plugs often. I'm also now on e85 which doesn't foul plugs so things have changed for me but just a heads up.
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post #69 of 72 Old 05-24-2017, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't want to rip on innovate because I haven't actually owned one, but that's because I always read about people hating the calibration processes, losing calibrations, and just a general sense of dissatisfaction. Then a few people will like them. I personally use autometer widebands but know the AEM's are fine too so i'm sure you'll be happy with it.

if it helps, my cars tend to like around 13.5-14 AFR at warm idle with the warmup enrichment bringing that down to around 12.5 at cold start. When I first started working on the tunes in these cars, they were pegging 10 and i was fouling plugs often. I'm also now on e85 which doesn't foul plugs so things have changed for me but just a heads up.
Out with the old and in with the new AEM wideband and it works! I'm idling mid-high 12's. Now I can officially begin tuning

-Matt

Kenne Bell supercharged & IRS swapped 90' LX 5.0
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post #70 of 72 Old 05-24-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbody817 View Post
Out with the old and in with the new AEM wideband and it works! I'm idling mid-high 12's. Now I can officially begin tuning
Nice! set those VEAL filters to where it doesn't mess with idle values after you get them dialed in, then go do some tunin!
5.0thunder is offline  
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