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Old 09-18-2011, 08:48 AM   #1
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MAC Flowpath vs Magnaflow Dyno results

Well my testing with these 3" mufflers is done and before I begin here is a quick breakdown on my setup.

DART 331
TFS 185 CNC
Freezy 74 camshaft

Edelbrock RPMII intake
ProCharger D1@20psi
Snow Performance Stage 3 water/methanol w/Boost Juice (50/50)

MSD 6AL-2 Programmable
MSD HV coil
Firecore 50 spark plug wires

1 3/4" MAC Shorty header
MAC 3" ProChamber
MAC 3" catback with MAC Flowpath mufflers

We recently switched from a 2.5" exhaust system to a 3" system and picked up 45rwhp @5700rpms: 2.5" vs 3" exhaust dyno results

Now conventional thinking would make you believe that a straight thru design muffler would be less resetrictive vs a MAC Flowpath. See pics of the Magnaflow muffler:





But that was not the case:

With no other changes we lost 45rwhp @ 5300rpms.

Please note while testing the Magnaflows we were fighting an engine miss@5300-5400rpms.....my fault. Thinking that the straight thru design would command more fuel, I decided to regap my plugs from .035 to .020 but an engine miss developed. It wasn't until yesterday I decide to regap (using the same plugs) them back to .035 that the miss went away. I know, different than what most people say but I always run a .035 gap with Autolite 3924 with no issues.

Here is my 786rwhp (MAC Mufflers) run vs a couple of Magnaflow mufflers. Notice the huge HP difference (area underneath the curve and our new peak of 5300rpms).

Magnaflow run numbers: Runs 121 and 122 on 9/14/2011
MAC Flowpaths: Run 109 on 7/14/2011
MAC Flowpaths: Run 128 on 9/17/2011









Here is a RWTQ curve: Notice the huge differences in RWTQ





Now I spent all day at the dyno on 9/14/2011 trying my best to retune for the Magnaflow mufflers but they were down on power, its just that simple. Now on 9/16/2011, I had my old MAC Flowpths re-installed and headed back to the dyno the following day. See results below:






Important facts from my testing:

1) When I first installed the 3" exhaust system it commanded alot more fuel than the 2.5" setup because it was moving alot more air.

2) Switching to the 3" Magnaflow mufflers we were to rich and had to remove alot of fuel. Meaning it wasn't moving as much air and the decrease it RWHP and RWTQ show that.

3) Switching back to the MAC Flowpath mufflers commanded alot more fuel. Meaning it was moving alot more air vs thge Magnaflow and the increase in RWHP and RWTQ show that.

4) MAC Flowpath is NOT chambered muffler like Flowmaster. MAC Jr. said the Flowpaths are designed around flow and they outflow all the street muffler competition except for Borla XR-1. Granted Jr said not by that much.

5) Why the HP & TQ loss. MAC said those so called straight thru design mufflers like Magnaflow, Ultraflow, Race Magnum that have a huge body or cavity, causes a vortex. A vortex (plural: vortices) is a spinning, often turbulent, flow of fluid or air, inside the muffler and this causes a restricition. MAC also stated that the smaller the cavity or body the less vortex will be created hence a bullet style muffler isn't affected as much.

The players
Magnaflow muffler test: Part#14239, size: 14" x 8" x 5"
MAC Flowpath: Part#FP743, size: 13" x 9" x 3.75"


On another side note, I played around with testing spark plug wires (Accel 300+, Firecore 50 and FMS) I saw no noticeable difference in HP or TQ but I run the Firecore 50 because it moved the engine miss up higher in the rpm band vs the others.

Spark plugs: Autolites vs NGK, again I saw no noticeable difference in HP or TQ but on my combo my car seems to drive better with the Autolites. So I use Autolites.

On my setup the larger gap (.035) makes alittle bit more power (3-4rwhp) than a smaller one (.020). So I run the larger gap and my ignition system components have no problem igniting the mixture at all.

All runs everyday and all day is on 93 octance with water/methanol injection system from Snow Performance.

Huge Thanks to Mike Dez Racing http://dezracing.net/ for letting me come in and do testing when I want. Mike Dez and his staff are top notch and I'm glad he's available to me.

Thanks
Michael Plummer
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:22 AM   #2
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How were the noise levals between the two mufflers @ idle and part throttle cruising?
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:32 AM   #3
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Very interesting... thanks for taking the time to share this with us as well! Why shorties? Did you not like the options for a 1 3/4 in LT?
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat50ho View Post
How were the noise levals between the two mufflers @ idle and part throttle cruising?
Great question!
Magnflow@idle: QUIET

Magnaflow@cruise: QUIET

Magnaflow@ WOT: Nice rumble but when you pass someone they won't be startled.



MAC@idle: Old school rumble: Kinda reminds me of a modified Flowmaster aliitle but I'll take a short video clip and you can hear for yourself.

MAC@cruising: QUIET, this surprised me. You can actually talk on your cell phone while cruising down the highway at 65-85mph. Now cruising around town this is where they are the loudest. They have some bite to them but its not like you'd have to hide from your local police

MAC@ WOT: Not as loud as you'd think. Maybe a little louder than the Magnaflow muffler but I think the 3" ProChamber pipe does a great job of killing some of the sound.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnIrishJr View Post
Very interesting... thanks for taking the time to share this with us as well! Why shorties? Did you not like the options for a 1 3/4 in LT?
For me, I had issues with the current players of long tube headers (burnt A/C line, starter, spark plug wire) and off they came many moons ago. As I rethink my combo, a custom mid-length header may be an option.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #6
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damn i was going to switch from my spin tech super pro streets to magnflow's(spin techs are way way way to loud!!!!) so the MAC's may be the way to go for performance and a quiet ride
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:16 AM   #7
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For all you guys that use SAE, STD or Uncorrected here are the dyno graphs.

SAE: This is the correction factor I use
787.35rwhp, 716.20rwtq SAE



STD: A correction factor used by many but not by Dynojet
812.12rwhp, 738.73rwtq STD



Uncorrected: A correction factor used for that day at that time
827.83rwhp, 753.02rwtq Uncorrected
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:42 AM   #8
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I am glad you did this testing, but I am really upset about the results! I have Mac Flowpaths on my Cobra right now. They are dumped and I hate the way they sound. They get really rasspy at half throttle pulls. I bought a set of Magnaflows to put on it and have the tailpipes routed out back (it has to be custom due to rollpan bar). Do your Mac's do this also, or are mine blown out or something?
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:14 PM   #9
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Michael,

Do you think the prochamber had anything to do with the results?

If I can get my hands on another set of Pro Dumps then I will do some testing to see how they compare to my Dynomax Ultraflows that I just put on the car this spring. I really feel that the Ultraflows make more power then my Pro Dumps did, but only the dyno/track results will tell the tale.

I suppose an easy test as well would be how the wideband reacts to the different mufflers.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP_Stang View Post
I am glad you did this testing, but I am really upset about the results! I have Mac Flowpaths on my Cobra right now. They are dumped and I hate the way they sound. They get really rasspy at half throttle pulls. I bought a set of Magnaflows to put on it and have the tailpipes routed out back (it has to be custom due to rollpan bar). Do your Mac's do this also, or are mine blown out or something?
I think the biggest difference is your turndowns or dumps. I have full length tailpipes and I must admit those 3" MAC mufflers are not that loud at cruise.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Michael,

Do you think the prochamber had anything to do with the results?

If I can get my hands on another set of Pro Dumps then I will do some testing to see how they compare to my Dynomax Ultraflows that I just put on the car this spring. I really feel that the Ultraflows make more power then my Pro Dumps did, but only the dyno/track results will tell the tale.

I suppose an easy test as well would be how the wideband reacts to the different mufflers.
Q) Do you think the prochamber had anything to do with the results?
A) Which results? The 3" ProChamber was used with both mufflers with no other changes. The MAC mufflers made more power and torque over the Magnaflow mufflers.

We made 13 runs, trying different things to get the Magnaflow mufflers to make more HP but the runs I posted were the best of the bunch. With those mufflers on (Magnaflow) they wanted alot less fuel. Basically means, its not moving as much air.
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:07 PM   #12
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I am affraid to run tailpipes out if the mufflers are still goin to be rasspy. I guess I could always swap out the mufflers at a later time if they are.

You don't notice any rasspiness with your mac's? I would love to hear what your car sounds like with the Mac's if you get the chance to take that video you were talking about.
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:19 PM   #13
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MAC Flowpaths at idle

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Old 09-18-2011, 04:20 PM   #14
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These are incredible results Michael! You're going above and beyond to gather this data for yourself AND THEN SHARING...for that we thank you!

The difference in undeniable, swap on the Maggies and you had to remove fuel, swap back on the Macs and you had to add fuel back...the Macs move more air, period!

You don't have to have an 800hp monster to notice a difference either, the Maggies start to fall behind at mid-curve in the low to mid 500s(down 30rwhp)...that's significant and is the hp range the average enthusiast lives in!

After speaking with you early on in your testing I went ahead and picked up some 3" Mac Flowpaths. While they don't look as pretty they clearly do the job. Although Mac does offer them in SS as well.



Sneak peak inside both once again:




I bet if you put these two mufflers in front of 100 gearheads and asked which one flows better, all 100 would say the Magnaflows(I know I would).

Goes to show good engineering outsmarts what seems obvious and logical to the casual observer...but it took some fair, unbiased testing to conclude just the opposite. Thanks again Michael!!
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:25 PM   #15
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MAC at cruise




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Old 09-18-2011, 07:08 PM   #16
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Michael-

Great post and results. The Magnaflows may be a nice looking muffler, but if they're not performing, it's time to put them back on the shelf. You've also helped make my decision all that much easier, as I've been seriously considering getting rid of the Magnaflows as I personally don't care for the sound of them. Really good tests you're able run and experiment with.
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:28 PM   #17
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Thumbs up

Thanks for this info!

I know what will be replacing the Dynomax super turbos.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:08 PM   #18
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Thanks for the vids Mike!! It doesn't sound like you are getting rasspiness at all. Maybe it is the fact that they are dumped?
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:32 PM   #19
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Thanks for the vids Mike!! It doesn't sound like you are getting rasspiness at all. Maybe it is the fact that they are dumped?
I went from X with mac dumps; to and X with tails. The drone became really bad with the tails. I decided to take a chance on a prochamber and WOW it killed most of the drone AND the raspiness. I recommend one!
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:46 PM   #20
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what a dyno w**re!

should told me you were doing this mp i would have sent you my dB meter
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:46 PM   #21
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Q) Do you think the prochamber had anything to do with the results?
A) Which results? The 3" ProChamber was used with both mufflers with no other changes. The MAC mufflers made more power and torque over the Magnaflow mufflers.

We made 13 runs, trying different things to get the Magnaflow mufflers to make more HP but the runs I posted were the best of the bunch. With those mufflers on (Magnaflow) they wanted alot less fuel. Basically means, its not moving as much air.
I'm just curious because the Pro-Chamber was designed to be ran with the MAC mufflers...have you used a different mid pipe and tried the test between two different mufflers?

I would be really interested to see the results.

If I can get to the dyno before the snow flys I could do the test on my car as I have a dr.gas xpipe on my car.
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Old 09-18-2011, 09:35 PM   #22
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Q) I'm just curious because the Pro-Chamber was designed to be ran with the MAC mufflers...have you used a different mid pipe and tried the test between two different mufflers?
A) Great question but you must have me confused with a Mustang mag or an exhaust vendor. I don't have the time or money to do that kind of testing, sorry man.

I did a test a long time ago between my H-pipe and a Bassani X-pipe and the H-pipe won. MAC said it would because it was designed to work together and that a exhaust system designed together will work better than one pieced together. So there may be some truth to that but I'm not spending anymore money testing mufflers or mid-pipes.

After seeing MAC products consistently at the top or near the top of header, midpipe and muffler shootouts. There is one thing MAC does well and thats make power.
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Q) I'm just curious because the Pro-Chamber was designed to be ran with the MAC mufflers...have you used a different mid pipe and tried the test between two different mufflers?
A) Great question but you must have me confused with a Mustang mag or an exhaust vendor. I don't have the time or money to do that kind of testing, sorry man.

I did a test a long time ago between my H-pipe and a Bassani X-pipe and the H-pipe won. MAC said it would because it was designed to work together and that a exhaust system designed together will work better than one pieced together. So there may be some truth to that but I'm not spending anymore money testing mufflers or mid-pipes.

After seeing MAC products consistently at the top or near the top of header, midpipe and muffler shootouts. There is one thing MAC does well and thats make power.
I wasn't expecting you to go out and buy a different mid pipe. I was just curious if you had any prior testing with the different mid pipe.

I would actually like to see what a clean test without misfires did compared to the MAC's.

I know the MAC's required more fuel so therefor, there was more air moving through them, but it would still be interesting to see how much power was separating the two different mufflers.
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:53 PM   #24
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Q) I wasn't expecting you to go out and buy a different mid pipe. I was just curious if you had any prior testing with the different mid pipe.
A) Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound that way in the other thread but you do have a valid arguement. But I'm not sure you're going to see that test unless you do it yourself. I'd like to see it too.

Q) I would actually like to see what a clean test without misfires did compared to the MAC's.
A) Honestly, upto 5300rpms the curve was smooth and the car ran fine. I don't think the Magnaflows were going to make up any ground on the MAC mufflers. Looking at the graph, the higher the rpm's the bigger the difference in HP and TQ between the mufflers.

Q) I know the MAC's required more fuel so therefor, there was more air moving through them, but it would still be interesting to see how much power was separating the two different mufflers.
A) Agreed but for me, I saw enough from my crude testing, to switch back to the MAC's.

You bring up some valid points but I'm not sure you'll find the answers you're looking for.

One another note: Darryl from Bassani has expressed some interest in going head to head against the MAC's but a few things need to happen.
1) Mufflers need to be donated
2) Bill for swapping mufflers paid in advance
3) Travel expenses covered
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:02 AM   #25
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Lol, you saved me changing my exhaust as I was going the prochamber/magnaflow route instead of my current Hpipe/mac. I was looking to quiet my exhaust down some as the reason for me wanting to change.

I was told the prochamber is quieter and deeper sounding than an H pipe so I will likely switch to a prochamber but keep the macs and see how loud that is.

The noise I'd have to disagree with a tad as I've had both mufflers also, but we dont have similar setups. The macs idle db is average, it's not quiet by any means. The maggies were a lot quieter to me at idle. The cruising though it's almost silent, I can't even tell I have an exhaust, same with the maggies. At WOT, everyone within 10 miles can hear me with the mac mufflers. The maggies are still very loud but just not as loud as the macs, just from my experiences with these mufflers.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:01 AM   #26
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Mike,big thanks for your r&d work.I can not believe there is 50 hp differents ! Also the moter dropped 1 pound of boost and made more power with the macs.I am realizing the ultraflows are like open headers,its a fact that certain mufflers you make more power.There is the scavenging effect you need to make mufflers flow much better than open exhaust/ultraflows.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:15 AM   #27
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I went from X with mac dumps; to and X with tails. The drone became really bad with the tails. I decided to take a chance on a prochamber and WOW it killed most of the drone AND the raspiness. I recommend one!
Yeah, I run a 3" X-pipe so you might be right. I am definitely getting the tails put on for the look alone. I am not a fan of the way mustangs look without tials. So maybe I should look into a Prochamber then. Thanks for the help guys!
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:25 AM   #28
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damn... very good info.

I used to run 2.5" Flowpaths and liked them a lot, i switched to Super ProStreet Spintechs and like them too, and now run 3" SpinTech Pro ShootOuts.

I wonder what back to back testing would show me... hmm.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:32 AM   #29
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Interesting. Here is what MAC says:
Quote:
Back pressure robs your car of power and economy. Reduced back pressure will cause immediate gains in both power and economy. If you modify your engine, for every 8-10% in power increase you will gain 30% more back pressure which virtually chokes the motor. So any modification at the engine makes a free flowing exhaust and muffler system mandatory.

There are three basic factors in noise control: Restriction, Absorption, and Reflection. Restriction is best for reduction of noise, but worst for power and economy (as high as 16lbs of back pressure). Absorption is effective when you pack materials such as fiberglass inside casing, but this is usually quite loud, especially when the packing burns out. Absorption doesn't control reversion. Reflection which is the most effective for power increase is done with baffles and reflector plates with nothing to burn out.

MAC Flow Path mufflers use reflection for maximum flow while still maintaining noise control. Instead of a single flow path, MAC Flow Path mufflers use two flow paths for twice the flow and reflection area, while remaining a true anti-reversion muffler. This is what makes Flow Path mufflers the Best Choice! MAC Flow Path mufflers.

MAC guarantees more flow, less reversion and smaller physical size than FlowMaster #42543 or DynoMax #17734
I have Mac 1 3/4 Full Length Headers and ProChamber with MagnaFlow cat-back, maybe I will swap out mufflers myself before I hit the dyno again in spring. My city has strict noise ordinace. My Harley with stock exhaust was pulled over, let's put it that way. I took off the old Flowmaster 40 Series, cuz they were way too loud. Even now, I pretty much baby the car within the city limits, yet am still just waiting. The Magnaflows did quiet it down quite a bit though, so more comfortable with the sound level.

Here is an article from 2002 that AFM participated in. Mac Flowtech and MagnaFlow are 2 of the players, and coincidentally their next to each other in the charts. From their tests, the difference is minimal and the Flowtech puts out several more dbs. Granted this is on a 380ish na rwhp car and not a 800rwhp sc'd monster. BUT, I really can't have anything too loud. Have to think about it.

Ford Mustang Muffler Comparison Test - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

Quote:
One another note: Darryl from Bassani has expressed some interest in going head to head against the MAC's but a few things need to happen.
1) Mufflers need to be donated
2) Bill for swapping mufflers paid in advance
3) Travel expenses covered
I would do that too with everything provided.......lol. But they already went head to head in the article above as Borla has a couple mufflers in the pool. Hell, IF someone wants to donate a YSi, I will put it head to head against the T. (Just sayin...)
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #30
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Hmmmmm,i've had 3 friends switch from mac flowpath's to magnaflow's and while no dyno testing was done all 3 went consistently quicker and faster with the magnaflow's,each one atleast a tenth and all over 1 mph in the 1/8!I'm not bias by any means because i've never ran magnaflow's but i have ran flowmaster's,dynomax turbo muffler's,mac flowpaths,and hooker maxflow's.Anyway congrats!!!
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinchley View Post
Here is an article from 2002 that AFM participated in. Mac Flowtech and MagnaFlow are 2 of the players, and coincidentally their next to each other in the charts. From their tests, the difference is minimal and the Flowtech puts out several more dbs. Granted this is on a 380ish na rwhp car and not a 800rwhp sc'd monster. BUT, I really can't have anything too loud. Have to think about it.

Ford Mustang Muffler Comparison Test - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine
I had someone reference that same article on another local forum I frequent and yes, it's apples to oranges. At ~400rwhp on Michael's graph he's pushing 10-11psi which is moving a lot more air than the N/A car in the article and begins to really expose exhaust restrictions. Run that test again on a 550rwhp big inch Windsor and I bet the difference is greater. In fact, the magazine should have ran a Part 2 with just that, a higher hp blown combo. That test basically proved nothing, the diff was so small that every muffler was a winner when you weigh in, cost and db levels!

In the end, I'll take the data from one of you guys who has nothing to gain from either muffler coming out on top over a mag with paying vendors!
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:48 PM   #32
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^^ that

plus they used 50-series flows instead of 40's or 44's, who knows which SpinTech muffler; probably a Sportsman...
IMO that test left much to be desired.

If they couldnt get what they needed in time they shoulda waited a few months or at least done a Round II.

I think its pretty common knowledge that on stock/mild cars mufflers are more sound preference as none of them will really bottle-neck you.
Once things gets serious is when it will make a real noticeable, repeatable difference.
They should have used something high HP to make the differences more substantial so we could actually get a clue...
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:20 PM   #33
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The r&d results do look impressive,I just find it really hard to think mac has anything competive.The prochamber and there poor fitting headers were forgotton about 10 years ago.But like I said,the info is very good.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by 1992vert View Post
I had someone reference that same article on another local forum I frequent and yes, it's apples to oranges. At ~400rwhp on Michael's graph he's pushing 10-11psi which is moving a lot more air than the N/A car in the article and begins to really expose exhaust restrictions. Run that test again on a 550rwhp big inch Windsor and I bet the difference is greater. In fact, the magazine should have ran a Part 2 with just that, a higher hp blown combo. That test basically proved nothing, the diff was so small that every muffler was a winner when you weigh in, cost and db levels!

In the end, I'll take the data from one of you guys who has nothing to gain from either muffler coming out on top over a mag with paying vendors!
Hate to play Devil's advocate but: If we get a few more cars to make the change and see similar results...with both completely tuned respectively, which this was not due to the plug gap....I will maybe think about it harder. But for most......I highly doubt we will see a 15whp difference, more or less 40+. I am skeptical. Think about it, both these mufflers have been out for over a decade......people have tested without a doubt.

Quote:
Please note while testing the Magnaflows we were fighting an engine miss@5300-5400rpms.....my fault. Thinking that the straight thru design would command more fuel, I decided to regap my plugs from .035 to .020 but an engine miss developed. It wasn't until yesterday I decide to regap (using the same plugs) them back to .035 that the miss went away. I know, different than what most people say but I always run a .035 gap with Autolite 3924 with no issues.
The one thing you can bank on in the AFM test is the DB level and they Macs are loud, which pretty much takes me out of the consideration of swapping because I drive a street car.

Quote:
plus they used 50-series flows instead of 40's or 44's, who knows which SpinTech muffler; probably a Sportsman...
IMO that test left much to be desired.
Quote:
Though we went out of our way to request mufflers identical to those found in most companies' Mustang after-cat systems, we did get a strange submission from Flowmaster. This muffler was designed for SUV applications, but with deadlines bearing down, we couldn't really have a muffler test without the storied Flowmaster. This hefty 16-pound muffler was actually fairly quiet down low and opened up at WOT. As far as the power numbers, it hung right in with the pack, registering peaks of 369.4 at 6,000 rpm and 331.8 lb-ft of torque at 5,500. Surprising given its mild-steel construction, the muffler we ran sells for $135 each, but we've seen Mustang-spec Flowmasters selling for half that on the mail-order market.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:30 PM   #35
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Hate to play Devil's advocate but: If we get a few more cars to make the change and see similar results...with both completely tuned respectively, which this was not due to the plug gap....I will maybe think about it harder. But for most......I highly doubt we will see a 15whp difference, more or less 40+. I am skeptical. Think about it, both these mufflers have been out for over a decade......people have tested without a doubt.
One thing I think Michael failed to mention was that he spoke with all the major exhaust players about his car searching for their recommendations. Based on their responses he widdled it down to the two. He then willingly spent close to $275 to purchase/ship/install/tune a set of mufflers that he wasn't going to use, then posted the results which could possibly hurt his chances of selling them. Not many people are going to do this on their own dime, so good luck there.

He initially installed the Maggies and snuck in to see Dez for a quick pull and saw a 40+hp drop and a/f go rich. Then later went back when more time allowed to tweak the tune in hopes of finding the lost power. That's when the miss at 5,300-5,400rpm was occuring. The pull was clean until then so comparing the graphs is valid up until that point. 31hp @ 4,500 and 48hp @ 5,400...do you think the gap was going to decrease after that?? The torque curves have an even larger gap! The Mac rep told Michael with confidence "our mufflers will out flow every muffler out there, except the XR1's...but not by much!". Which tells you THEY tested them as well.

A magazine will do their own comparisons and people will throw money at the winner based on the results without asking for 3 other mags to do the same test. Yet people have called foul for years over biased test results that cater to their paying sponsors. Michael is a reputable vendor of this site and a respected member of the mustang community. He has nothing to gain personally or professionally from posting the results. In fact he takes a risk at pissing of a manufacturer and tons of skepticism. That's why I said "thank you", in the thread and on the phone!

I spoke to my tuner about it today and he said he's not surprised. For example, he has found chambered mufflers(ie, Flowmaster) just don't make the power on modular motors, but when the owner switches to Mac the car comes alive. His words, not mine.

You're entitled to your opinion which is cool, but while you're waiting for more data me and others will reap the benefits of Michael's findings...at a mininum we'll be no worse off!

Quote:
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The one thing you can bank on in the AFM test is the DB level and they Macs are loud, which pretty much takes me out of the consideration of swapping because I drive a street car.
This is true and I have heard numerous times that Macs tend to be on the louder end of the spectrum. But for what they're worth in hp, many will "suffer"!
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