which has the better sounding lope, the tfs 1 cam or the e303 cam?

[jaybo9450]

CompCams XE 282 HR is the nastiest cam I have heard in a 5.0 it sounds sick. You can go to their website and hear some of their cams.

[slo895.0]

Originally Posted by jaybo9450

CompCams XE 282 HR is the nastiest cam I have heard in a 5.0 it sounds sick. You can go to their website and hear some of their cams.

ok you just want sound get the anderson n-71 heres a sound clip of my buddys car with it in a 306.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlSUMmKjgV0

[My2GT's]

Originally Posted by dav65mus

I don't think the posts here are trying to "lecture" him, just point out that in an otherwise mostly stock setup, an "E" cam or TFS1 will kill lowend torque.

You need decent compression, and low gears to get into the power band quickly or your "lopey" idle car will be slower than the stock cam.

If the car is only a cruiser and is never raced, then the sound is cool to listen to. If that is what they want then thats fine.....

We are just trying to give a little friendly advice to try and avoid a thread in 6 weeks saying my car is a dog until 3000 rpm, what's wrong?

LOL, you are right about the "Why does my car have no bottom end?" treads. Or the no power until 3000, lol. I got you.

[dav65mus]

Originally Posted by 86fiveoh

LSA on the tfs-1 is 112*
i cant find the spec for the e303 (thats why i dun like fr cams... only give duration and lift)

also check Valve overlap, i forgot to say that those 2 combined determin the lopiness, overlap and LSA

more lsa= less overlap

more overlap= more lopiness
more lsa= less lopiness

"E" cam is a 110 LSA, both cams have over 220deg. at .050 and will bleed down cylinder pressure at low engine speeds (reduced torque)

Go to the Crane Cams website and look up part number 444231. This is the "E" cam. Read the manufacturer's list of suggested mods to run this cam.

TFS 1 requires similar mods to be fun to drive on the street.

[MAT88GT]

just pull some vac lines, instant lope

[swebb]

Threads like this belong on a ricer message board. I hear those "fart" sounding mufflers help make your cam sound more badass

I would rather have something that didn't make a sound and hauls ass, than make a bunch of noise and run like turd!

[ericiscool]

i had the tfs 1 cam in my old 89 gt it had shorty headers, h pipe and 40 series flow masters, on it it sounded awsome real loud and throughty.

[dav65mus]

Originally Posted by swebb

Threads like this belong on a ricer message board. I hear those "fart" sounding mufflers help make your cam sound more badass

That's a great idea, fart mufflers on v8 stangs!!!!!
My stomach hurts after reading that comment. That's classic Swebb.

[bad5.0stang]

i had a friend that put a big cam in a 305 chevy....it loped like a son of a bitch but it ran 2 seconds slower then it did stock.....car was a malibu with a bone stock 305,2.41 gears,stock converter with a stock th350 trans....cam made power from like 3500 to 7500 but you couldnt shift it past 5000 cause there was'nt any steam left in the motor.....POWER OVER SOUND ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[swebb]

Originally Posted by dav65mus

That's a great idea, fart mufflers on v8 stangs!!!!!
My stomach hurts after reading that comment. That's classic Swebb.

Well, I just can't believe people keep posting questions of this nature. Honestly, who cares what the thing sounds like as long as its a bad biotch when it leaves. I mean, sure my 14:1 N/A 347 sounds like its on a mission to destroy something, but my buddies 10.5 oultaw car (402 cui, 106mm turbo, 2000+HP) sounds like a sissy compared to it, yet it runs LOW 7's @ 200+mph. Personally I would take the sissy sounding land rocket any day of the week.

As for the fart mufflers on a V8 car......well, some loser from around my neck of the woods has some on his, and let me tell ya, it truely does make you want to vomit.

[89shockstang]

F-cam!! Great performance for N/A and blower! Sick lope as well but not overkill. Like some guys have mentioned, get the best cam for your combo.

[RacinNdrummin]

IM getting sick of you guys that just bash all day long when a guy prefers sound over performance. Dont get me wrong, Your right as far as power goes. I had an 81 f150 with an early 302/4-speed edelcrap streetmaster intake holley 600 headers and dumped muffs. With the Stock cam and 3.50 gears the thing would get up and go in a hurry (its all relative,but the truck only weighed 3750). I put a comp 270h cam in it and the thing sounded bad ass but I lost a whole bunch of off idle torque. In return I could take it to ~6000 when shifting and I gained a bunch of top end. Though I did lose some torque (I always got flamed for the cam swap by lots of poeple) I gained some power up top and the truck was IMO More fun to drive around. After the cam swap I would get thumbs up all the time at street lights, and that gave me gratification. In most cases, we are only talking about losing a few Ft/lbs or HP when doing a cam swap. If im .1 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile because I have a Lopey assed cam, thats fine, Its worth it to me to drive around town and sound cool when doing it. Im not out to do 10 seconds in the 1/4 mile, im out to have fun, and if a lopey cam helps me have fun, I dont see anything wrong with that, it may not be your cup of tea, and thats fine too.

[frankstang]

I don't think they're bashin, they're amazed that you would contemplate a cam swap just for the sound. I'm 48 years old and one of the major things that got me hooked on this hobby was hearing a cammed muscle car rolling down the street when I was a kid. It still gives me goosebumps, so I understand the attraction. The difference is, that sound was reserved for the baddest cars in town. Everyone knew your car and who you were. You got some status out of it. Now here you come with that sound but your car can't run the number cause it's still got the stock converter,gears, heads,etc..You're cashin in on some of that status but in some peoples eyes it's a sham. It's like you joined the club but didn't have to pay the dues. Breeds bad feelings.
It's your car, enjoy it. Just try to remember there was a time when things were different.

[Danglerb]

I'm not sure Calif smog tests are that much to worry about concerning cams. I asked around in several different forums and didn't find anybody that actually failed a smog test and could point at the cam as being the reason. I'm still looking to see whats the closest to the edge and still passes, and yeah I really only care about the power, not the sound, tamer the better sounding.

[botlrokit93]

back when I had a bone stock 5.0, all I had to do was pull the vacuum hose (going from the intake to the vacuum "tee") and boom.... instant lope, I mean big lope! if that's all you want, try this "freebie" trick.

[dav65mus]

Originally Posted by frankstang

I don't think they're bashin, they're amazed that you would contemplate a cam swap just for the sound. I'm 48 years old and one of the major things that got me hooked on this hobby was hearing a cammed muscle car rolling down the street when I was a kid. It still gives me goosebumps, so I understand the attraction. The difference is, that sound was reserved for the baddest cars in town. Everyone knew your car and who you were. You got some status out of it. Now here you come with that sound but your car can't run the number cause it's still got the stock converter,gears, heads,etc..You're cashin in on some of that status but in some peoples eyes it's a sham. It's like you joined the club but didn't have to pay the dues. Breeds bad feelings.
It's your car, enjoy it. Just try to remember there was a time when things were different.

Hey Frankstang, were getting old as dirt.LOL.

Yeah I remember those days. A buddy of mine had one of the baddest cars in town.'72 chevelle with a smallblock that he shifted at 8500 rpm. Man that car sounded sweet. It ran high tens and was daily driven to highschool.
That was badass in 1982!!

[blackn20lx]

Originally Posted by slo895.0

ok you just want sound get the anderson n-71 heres a sound clip of my buddys car with it in a 306.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlSUMmKjgV0

holy #### that sounds friggin sick dude. What kinda exhaust is he running on that thing, got any more vids of it ?

[dmc919]

i've been trying to understand cams and i came across this thread so here is some info that i've wrote, i got the overlap values by adding the intake and exhuast advertized duration together, divide by 4, subtract lsa, multiply by 2


duration .050 lift lobe separation angle overlap rpm


e 220 498 110 62 2500-5500
f 226 512 109 70 2800-6000
b 224 480 107 70 3300-6100
x 224 542 107 72 3500-6200
z 228 552 107 76 3500-6600





trick flow

0 221/225 499/510 112 53 2000-5500
1 224/232 542/563 112 66 2500-6000
2 236/248 574/595 110 84 3200-6800



little messed up because it doesn't see the spaces

[Joel5.0]

A small correction on the alphabet numbers.....the LSA is not 109 for the F or 107 for the B-Z cams. That's the ICL (Intk Center Line), you would have to add ICL and ECL(Exh Center Line) and divide by 2.

F=(109+119)/2 = 228/2 = 114 LSA
B-Z=(107+117)/2 = 224/2 = 112 LSA

[RacinNdrummin]

Originally Posted by frankstang

I don't think they're bashin, they're amazed that you would contemplate a cam swap just for the sound. I'm 48 years old and one of the major things that got me hooked on this hobby was hearing a cammed muscle car rolling down the street when I was a kid. It still gives me goosebumps, so I understand the attraction. The difference is, that sound was reserved for the baddest cars in town. Everyone knew your car and who you were. You got some status out of it. Now here you come with that sound but your car can't run the number cause it's still got the stock converter,gears, heads,etc..You're cashin in on some of that status but in some peoples eyes it's a sham. It's like you joined the club but didn't have to pay the dues. Breeds bad feelings.
It's your car, enjoy it. Just try to remember there was a time when things were different.

Your completely right as far as cams being reserved for cars that deserve them, Im not advocating throwing a knarly cam in a stock application, Im just saying, that some people are at the point where a cam is the next upgrade for the car, if you are going to do a cam swap and your not out to run 10's, I dont see whats wrong with a guy throwing a cam at compliments his setup and has the idle quality he likes, theres nothing wrong with that. My car is on the verge of a cam swap, and IM going to get a cam that goes with my setup well and has the Idle im looking for, may sound stupid to you guys that are hardcore racers and such but, havig my car the way I want my car is better than a couple of tenths in the 1/4.

[frankstang]

As you can see from the 14.09et in my sig I'm no hardcore racer. I do enjoy going to the track now and then.
I understand your point. Not everyone is trying to eke out that last bit of HP. Since you're ready for a cam change you want one that has the sound you like. Makes total sense to me. Yet some people on this site will equate that with putting a 5" tach on the dash because it looks good. Live and let live.

[RacinNdrummin]

Very true, and they have reason to equate picking a cam for idle quality superficially to somebody with a 5" Pro tach. Nothing is better than a custom cam matched perfectly to your setup regardless of idle quality, Ill be the first one to tell you that, you have no arguement from me there. But in the case of the b or e cam and a TFS 1 im sure there is very little differences in the cams and with that being the case, I would probably pick the one that sounds the best. Its basically the same thing as buying 17"s or a Flowmaster CB, If you like the way it sounds and looks, than right on. I could also throw a BB in a pinto with Shi**y steel wheels and the car could be 3 different colors and have some minor mods and run fast as hell, does it matter?? No not really. Plus you can always upgrade engine parts around the cam later on.

[dmc919]

i dont know, i got my info from summitracing

[frankstang]

Lets get back to the cams. What sounds best? Post your sound clips.

[Trey LePark]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Thumpr Cam from Competition Cams. This cam is made for exactly what this guy is looking for. Tons of sound without killing driveability.

http://www.compcams.com/information/...ryID=333735354

Will this cam actually work in a roller block with Ford roller lifters?

[frankstang]

I just looked at the thumper site and you're right, a cam made just for the reason RacinnDrummin is looking for. Lopey idle without the drivability problems.

[Michael Yount]

What entertainment -- reading this thread. First off, stuff like this --- "...real loud and throughty" ---- a word I've never seen before -- throughty. Cool. I guess he meant "throaty" -- but heck, if you can't spell it more than one way what good are you?

Back in the day, when dad's 65 Vista Cruiser was warmed up, if you pulled the manual choke cable out just the right amount, you could get the stock motor (except for duals, glasspacks and a holley carb) to sound like a top fuel car at idle. Best of both worlds -- wicked idle, and push the choke knob back in and it drove like normal. Of course, I was about 13 at the time and thought a nasty cammed-up idle was cool.

Got a buddy with a new S65 biturbo V12 Mercesdes/AMG. Makes 593HP and 690+ lb-ft of torque - over 600 of it available from 1500 rpm to 5000 rpm. And it idles like a Honda, which is to say you can barely hear it sneaking up on you in the parking lot. That's my idea of awesome.

Trey's comment - "Tons of sound without killing driveability." Lots of folks want this. As a practical matter, it doesn't exist. All due respect to Comp (my custom was ground by them), I suspect their marketing department had more to do with that cam description than their cam designers did. With valve events that contribute to big overlap numbers it starts to become difficult to fill the cylinder properly at low rpm (read - idle), power/torque goes in the toilet at that rpm (this all relative to displacement). Those kinds of valve events need rpm to start working - there's just no way around it with our motors - modern technology has found ways around it. That's why the OEM's use things like variable length intake manifolds, and variable cam timing, or even alternate cam lobes in the case of, for example, Honda's VTEC system. It allows them to have decent torque down low along with a quiet, smooth idle and good emissions, while still having exceptional top end performance. It's part of what allows the 3.5L V6's from companies like Toyota and Nissan to put out over 300HP, while still making over 260+ lb-ft of torque with peak torque occurring in the 3500 rpm range WHILE idling so quietly/smoothly at 600 rpm that you can barely tell they're running. Compare that with the performance specs of the new Mustang's engine which is 66 cubic inches larger and you'll start to see why those of us that would like to see Ford survive just cringe because they can't seem to build a world class engine.

Lastly - dmc919, if you want to understand cams, go to Buddy Rawls' website, open every tab and read. http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/index.html All the numbers you're talking about simply fall out of the math FROM THE VALVE EVENTS. It's the design of the lobe (ramp rates, etc.) and the valve events that truly define a cam. Duration, LSA, etc. just fall out from simple addition/subtraction AFTER the correct valve events have been determined. The guys that really understand cams (I don't) are talking about the valve events and the lobes --- when does the valve start opening and closing and how quickly does it go from closed to peak lift. Once they've used their models to determine that --- they use addition to calculate duration/LSA. They're almost afterthoughts.

Lastly (ok - really lastly this time) - it's the whole combo that contributes to the sound at idle/power output, not just the cam. The same cam in a car with different heads can sound different. With different headers/exhaust it sounds different. More displacement and more static compression make the same cam sound/behave milder. You have to look at the whole combo -- not just the cam -- if you're serious about achieving a specific outcome -- whether it's a wicked lope at idle or just a car that runs the way you want it to.

[Joel5.0]

From their description........

*Notes:
1) Fits all Small Block Ford Windsor 1962-1995 that DID NOT come from the factory with a hydraulic roller camshaft
2) 5.0/351W firing order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
3) Requires 31-1000 retrofit kit and OE style hydraulic roller lifters

Those are small base circle HR cams........

[XSPOWER]

In my town, no one cares about the sound of a lumpy cam anymore. BUT, every man woman and child want those stick on hood scoops that are the rage now. It kills me to see $40,000 trucks cruisin around with stick-on hood scoops. YUCK! To me, hearing a car with a big rumpity-rumpity cam at idle gets my adrenalin flowing! You can go to a car show with 500 perfect show cars driving in and no one really pays much attention, But let a old rusty beater with a earth shaking cam come idling by and people stop and look with amazement!

[RacinNdrummin]

Originally Posted by frankstang

I just looked at the thumper site and you're right, a cam made just for the reason RacinnDrummin is looking for. Lopey idle without the drivability problems.

I wasnt really looking for a cam that just had the sound and nothing above that. I was basically Just defending people who buy cams for performance AND Idle characteristics. I wouldnt buy a cam that was too much for my setup just for idle quality, that is retarded. I was just making a point that I dont see anything wrong with somebody wanting a cam that sounds badass as well as adding (at least a little) to their setup even if it takes a little from the bottom end. That was what I did with my truck and I liked my truck more because of it, even if it didnt pull stumps anymore.

Originally Posted by Michael Yount

What entertainment -- reading this thread. First off, stuff like this --- "...real loud and throughty" ---- a word I've never seen before -- throughty. Cool. I guess he meant "throaty" -- but heck, if you can't spell it more than one way what good are you?

Back in the day, when dad's 65 Vista Cruiser was warmed up, if you pulled the manual choke cable out just the right amount, you could get the stock motor (except for duals, glasspacks and a holley carb) to sound like a top fuel car at idle. Best of both worlds -- wicked idle, and push the choke knob back in and it drove like normal. Of course, I was about 13 at the time and thought a nasty cammed-up idle was cool.

Got a buddy with a new S65 biturbo V12 Mercesdes/AMG. Makes 593HP and 690+ lb-ft of torque - over 600 of it available from 1500 rpm to 5000 rpm. And it idles like a Honda, which is to say you can barely hear it sneaking up on you in the parking lot. That's my idea of awesome.

Trey's comment - "Tons of sound without killing driveability." Lots of folks want this. As a practical matter, it doesn't exist. All due respect to Comp (my custom was ground by them), I suspect their marketing department had more to do with that cam description than their cam designers did. With valve events that contribute to big overlap numbers it starts to become difficult to fill the cylinder properly at low rpm (read - idle), power/torque goes in the toilet at that rpm (this all relative to displacement). Those kinds of valve events need rpm to start working - there's just no way around it with our motors - modern technology has found ways around it. That's why the OEM's use things like variable length intake manifolds, and variable cam timing, or even alternate cam lobes in the case of, for example, Honda's VTEC system. It allows them to have decent torque down low along with a quiet, smooth idle and good emissions, while still having exceptional top end performance. It's part of what allows the 3.5L V6's from companies like Toyota and Nissan to put out over 300HP, while still making over 260+ lb-ft of torque with peak torque occurring in the 3500 rpm range WHILE idling so quietly/smoothly at 600 rpm that you can barely tell they're running. Compare that with the performance specs of the new Mustang's engine which is 66 cubic inches larger and you'll start to see why those of us that would like to see Ford survive just cringe because they can't seem to build a world class engine.

Lastly - dmc919, if you want to understand cams, go to Buddy Rawls' website, open every tab and read. http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/index.html All the numbers you're talking about simply fall out of the math FROM THE VALVE EVENTS. It's the design of the lobe (ramp rates, etc.) and the valve events that truly define a cam. Duration, LSA, etc. just fall out from simple addition/subtraction AFTER the correct valve events have been determined. The guys that really understand cams (I don't) are talking about the valve events and the lobes --- when does the valve start opening and closing and how quickly does it go from closed to peak lift. Once they've used their models to determine that --- they use addition to calculate duration/LSA. They're almost afterthoughts.

Lastly (ok - really lastly this time) - it's the whole combo that contributes to the sound at idle/power output, not just the cam. The same cam in a car with different heads can sound different. With different headers/exhaust it sounds different. More displacement and more static compression make the same cam sound/behave milder. You have to look at the whole combo -- not just the cam -- if you're serious about achieving a specific outcome -- whether it's a wicked lope at idle or just a car that runs the way you want it to.

There isnt one part of this that I disagree with. But I think the main thing with this thread is that most of you guys "bashing" (note the quotes) choosing cams partly on idle quality are assuming that all cams that give you a nice rough idle will make you loose power. As I said above, Im not advocating putting a cam in a stock engine, but when somebody has, lets say, Full exhaust from headers back, CAI, bigger MAF, Bigger TB, Ported Intake/GT40 or Aftermarket manifold, Id say the next step should be a nice cam that compliments that setup, and chances are, if you want to make power up the the RPM range, that cam is at least going to have a semi-choppy idle. We arnt talking about turbocharged Mercedes engines here, were talking about a good ol small block ford that has changed very little since it was new, you arnt going to make big N/A power without a choppy idle and it aint going to be in the lower RPM ranges.

[blkfoxlx]

Originally Posted by swebb

Threads like this belong on a ricer message board. I hear those "fart" sounding mufflers help make your cam sound more badass

I would rather have something that didn't make a sound and hauls ass, than make a bunch of noise and run like turd!

How much HP did your cat back give you?! You know most people getting their flowmasters didn't gain more then 2hp, they just get them for the sound. The sound is a big part of satisfaction from your street car. Very different when it comes to an all out strip car.
My F cam gave me good sound and good power.

[jonb347]

dont buy a cam based on how it sounds. just for the record however, i have an e cam and it sounds a little meaner than stock but not much, it sounds good with the idle dropped down, but then you risk embarrassment of stalling.

[jbigalow]

if you want a cheap fix to a cammy sound pull the vac lines out and don't plug up your intake i did that with a b cam and it sounded good

[tooler]

So anyway, can I get the same effect if I pull some vac lines?

P. S. Don't respond.

[Joel5.0]

Here you go.......

E303
Click here to see Video

Stg 1
Click here to see Video