HP Performance turbo + 347

[bikewiz]

OH the rear end has been fixed for some time now. The car was only down for a week. I've just been having small problems and stuff. I will never build another turbo car for street use again. To many bugs and problems for everyday driving.

[bikewiz]

here are the videos from the dyno pulls:

[Sinful]

those videos show it was worth the effort.

[bikewiz]

yeah it will be worth it when its all taken care of, but as of now it seems like when I fix one thing, 2 more problems arise. Its getting to the point where I'm getting frustrated with the car and I just throw it in storage for like a week or two until i feel like messing with it again. My Denali is getting more use this summer than I ever thought it would, lol.

[bikewiz]

Hey look I got my scanner working too. Here is the acutal dyno graph:

[snipe656]

Originally Posted by bikewiz

yeah it will be worth it when its all taken care of, but as of now it seems like when I fix one thing, 2 more problems arise. Its getting to the point where I'm getting frustrated with the car and I just throw it in storage for like a week or two until i feel like messing with it again. My Denali is getting more use this summer than I ever thought it would, lol.

Welcome to the world of turbocharged mustangs.

[bikewiz]

Thanks buddy

[xr8240]

Originally Posted by snipe656

Welcome to the world of turbocharged mustangs.

Or any modified motor.....
Pays to have spare cheap runabout...

[fred50stang]

What's up with the TQ spike around 96-98mph? Your car sounds great too! I should have my tune done soon.

[Blackfive0]

Video looks good. I had my car tuned at Eurotech last week by kurgan.
oh give it some time you will run out of things to fix and you will have more fun then you will know what to do with. Hell I thought I was done with mine and found out today that I have a bad fuel injector that is leaking and it is not the rails

[5driver0]

Originally Posted by bikewiz

Where do the blocks supposedly split? I can imagine cylinder walls due to boring over. Have never heard of the block splitting before.

Do a search on here for "split block" and after reading a few hundred posts, you'll be convinced I'm sure

[r.barn]

Nice set-up - Good numbers
Good choice with the Dart.

Here's great vid of what happens to over powered 302's
http://videos.streetfire.net:80/vide...0a0177e6d0.htm
SPLIT IN TWO LIKE A BANANA


Thought you would make more like 600+rwhp at 13psi though???

[bikewiz]

Oh yeah its capable of way more. But Bob and I made the decision to tune it on the safe side because most of my driving is street and when I road race, those are 20-30 min heats of constant abuse. Plus with the crappy quality of pump gas here, its better not to go crazy on the timing. A lot of people forget on here that I live in the chicago area and we have bad ground level ozone. They load the gas up with ethanol as an additive. They say on the pumps up to 10% ethanol, but I've tested it with a GM tool I have at the dealership and the quality actually ranges between 7-13% ethanol, its very inconsistent. I'm not chancing my motor to get a couple extra degrees of timing when the government only lets me burn #### gas. I'll save my extra timing for when I go to the strip and run Sunoco 100 race fuel, where I need the extra power. My SCT chip tune #2 on the switch is set up with more timing for 100 octane and it will do 620ish at the wheels, still a moderate tune just because I'm not nuts.

With more boost, more timing, and meth I could easily have over 700rwhp, but why? I'd never use it.

Believe it or not, ive got my suspension dialed in now and with the 315 nitto DRs out back, I actually have little to no tire spin in 2nd or 3rd gears on the street. The car just GOES!

Fred,

I dunno whats up with the torque spike. Bob couldn't explain it either. Eurotechs dyno was really ####ed up that day. We had to restart the PC 4 times cuz it wouldn't slow down the roller after the run, it just kept freewheeling. I just wanted my car tuned so that it ran. I've been too busy fixing the quirks to mess with my boost controller, but once I do and have more consistent control over my boost, I'm gonna have Bob re-dyno tune it.

[r.barn]

10-4 on the safe tune

I think the ethanol they like up there has
more to do with them keeping all the corn farmers
up there happy more than emissions


You might want to check out the AEM engine computer too.
Just had mine installed and cant believe how much
better it idles and accelerates just in N/A form
VERY cool "plug-n-play" ECM, plugs right into factory harness.
My tuner says once I get the boost going it will make a
HUGE difference in tunability also.
Also has a "traction control" feature I cant wait to play with.

[bikewiz]

Car is still running, and much better! I forgot to put loctite on the bolts for the turbo flange, so they loosened up and made big exhaust leak that was suprisingly quiet. My car kept getting slower and slower. Where I had my boost controller set it was making 12psi. Some new copper RTV and some red loctite now puts me at 13.5 psi without touching the controller, lol.

I have fixed multiple driveability problems (spark plug wires, exhaust leaks, stonger bypass valve spring, manual boost controller instead of AVC-R, plumb wastegate outlet into downpipe pre-o2s) and car is fantastic. This week I'm installing a 9" rear to handle the power, and then I'm off to Kurgan for another dyno tune. This time we will make a tune for high octane and high boost for the drag strip. Right now I have a street tune for 93 gas and 13psi, and a roadrace tune for 100 octane 13psi.

At the drag strip, if I run 100 octane, what boost levels do you think my motor is safely capable of? 16psi? I'm just asking here because everybody in this thread knows my buildup well.

Thanks!

[fred50stang]

I used 93 pump gas on my tune and was seeing 15lbs of boost. So with race fuel, I would think that 20psi would be your limit. I know every motor is different. And you certainly have some good hardware on your car.

[bikewiz]

Okay so 16 psi is not out of reach, cool. 20 psi is probably not out of the question, but I've got too much money and time into this motor to even mess with that kind of boost. I don't need to make that much power. I know this car is capable of 700+ rwhp with more boost, better fuel, and maybe some meth injection, but I have no use for that kind of power. Thanks for the input!

I just picked up a Large Red spring for my Tial 44mm wastegate (0.8 bar) and then I've got my Hallman Manual to raise it from there.

[r.barn]

Originally Posted by flyin_hawaiin

I completely agree with you.. but this is what you need to understand... THIS CAR IS GOING TO BE USED FOR AUTOCROSS/ROAD RACING.... which means, a conservative tune is a MUST... I told matt that the car could probably handle another 2-3 degrees of timing and probably make close to 600rwhp, but for the sake of longevity on a road course, WE DECIDED to keep it toned down a bit..

1 thing i completely disagree with you with is the size of the motor vs HP on the turbo car... turbos dont care what size the motor is and will make just about the same HP on a 306 vs 331 vs 347... the turbo is a wonderful thing, what you lack in CI, you gain with that little wheel

+1,000,000. ...... Cant tell you how many good tuners I've talked to that
have said 99.999% of blown head gasket, broke pistons and all that other
shyt, are from people getting caught up on dyno racing and using over
aggressive tunes.

I have a friend running almost 800rwhp on boosted 347
I believe its holding together for one reason only, ...... a good tune on a FAST system

[xr8240]

With autocross traction & handling is king, so low-sh boost but wide power band, imo about 8 Lb on a tuff 306 would do the job...350 to 400 h.p....
350 doesn't sound like much but this is with WIDE power band where 3/4 of that power is in lower 1/2 rpm range, compared to n/a engine with same top end power... Low end torque is nice to get car set up before corners....
Thats if the rules allow forced induction engines ?.....

[FASTFOX91]

hmm

[bikewiz]

Originally Posted by FASTFOX91

hmm

?

Update:

Done a lot of work on the car with getting the Moser 9" set up and misc things here and there. The car is finally reliable enough to drive almost anywhere. I'm going wednesday morning to have Bob re-tune the car with all the changes that I have made. I had an aftermarket billet adjustable timing pointer that was displaying a false reading. I picked up a new OEM one from Ford and installed it. I checked my timing at idle with the spout out and I was actually at 6*, not 10* like Bob told me to do. So I assume that messed with the tune and the output of the setup. I now have reset the timing at 10* exactly to ensure I am good for the dyno. I also took Bob's advice and switched from the Autolite XP 3923 (0.030" gap) plugs to a set of the NGK V-Power plugs that he suggested gapped at 0.027" instead. What an incredible difference. The car runs much better and doesn't blow out the spark under snap throttle conditions like it used to. I used to have to ease into my throttle to get the car to accelerate with power. If I mashed it, and the turbo lagged, the car would break up and sputter until I backed out of it a little. Those plugs basically fixed it.

There is a lot of black carbon/suit buildup on the plugs and the car idles very rich. We are going to lean out the mixture with this next dyno tune so that I can get better than 8-10mpg city. I get about 17-18 hwy so we think its just too rich in the idle/driveability part of the tune because when I am cruising down the road, my A/F on my wideband is usally between 14-15.

I'm gonna have 3 setups for the car.

The 1st is a street tune. 93 octane, ~12psi via Hallman manual boost controller.

The 2nd is for road racing. 93 octane again. I don't need a crazy amount of power when I'm running up at Road America so I'm gonna turn the boost controller down so that I'm running on spring pressure only, 10psi. I have to talk to Bob, but I don't think I will need a special tune for just turning down the boost.

The 3rd is purely drag race. 100 octane. 16psi via Hallman MBC. We are gonna add 5 gallons of 110 race fuel to the tank on the dyno to make up a 100 octane mix in the 1/4 full tank. Then I've gotta have Bob keep cranking up the boost knob until he gets to 16psi, because I don't know where that is yet, lol.

[bikewiz]

Just did the new dyno runs this morning with Bob. Here are the results:



Boost is falling off up high. Maybe too small of air filter? Maybe I need to switch to a 3.5" Dynomax and dump it before the axle? Maybe a T76 needs to go on next year? lol who knows.

Very satisfied with it for the work I've done to it. Thanks again Bob!

check out www.kurganmotorsports.com you wont be dissapointed!

[notlekdyob]

I just read every post here and there is a lot of good info in this thread. Good luck in the future bikewiz with your project. I have plans of redoing my 347 and have it set up for turbo. I am currently fighting the fight in Iraq but I will be home buy Christmas. I think I will ordered my tubo kit now so its there when I get home.

[bikewiz]

Been a while since an update. The car has been in storage and I there is a bunch of stuff I've done that I didn't post.

Trying to remedy my high rpm boost drop off, I went to re-do the inlet pipe to the turbo with the draw-thru maf. I took it apart and found out that my bypass valve fitting that recirulates bypass air back into the turbo was loose in the pipe. This was allowing unmetered air to be sucked into the motor. Un-metered air makes the O2s think the motor is running lean and it richens to compensate. Hence why I had driveability issues, black smoke out the exhaust, nasty fumes, 8-10mpg city, I can keep going on and on. I fixed this one fitting, and the car runs a million times better and solved a ton of problems.

I wound up not making a new intake because time was an issue, but thats on the to-do list for spring. Bob, did inform me that anytime I move the MAF around or re-clock it, that throws off the readings. So once I do figure out a draw thru intake setup that will get my air filter high and dry, I guess I'll be going back to Bob in the spring for another tune (which is fine by me cuz its fun tuning w/ Bob).

Also working on yet another valve cover setup because I need to get the breathers up higher so my catch can doesn't fill up so quickly. I've got the electric evac pump which seems to be pulling a constant 8" of vacuum on the crankcase at idle which is good enough for me and is keeping most everything from leaking.

Happy new year everyone, I'll be bummin around here from time to time.

Come spring time expect to see some time slips up from me. I'll be damned if I can't learn how drive this car at the track and put down a low 10 sec ET.

[shelby6782]

hey running an 88mm garrett turbo stage 4 kit from hp on a 95 gts like yours. love the car man. post some pics of your breather setup when your done im gonna need something of the same sort im guessing. need to know what plugs you went with another guy informed me to go with ngk 5671a-9 plugs but they dont make them anymore. u and i are running alomost the same motor combo except im carbed. by spring i should have mine on here with some dyno runs of about 25lbs of boost and some 117 octane im hoping for 1000 or more out of this thing.

[bikewiz]

Originally Posted by shelby6782

hey running an 88mm garrett turbo stage 4 kit from hp on a 95 gts like yours. love the car man. post some pics of your breather setup when your done im gonna need something of the same sort im guessing. need to know what plugs you went with another guy informed me to go with ngk 5671a-9 plugs but they dont make them anymore. u and i are running alomost the same motor combo except im carbed. by spring i should have mine on here with some dyno runs of about 25lbs of boost and some 117 octane im hoping for 1000 or more out of this thing.

The plugs are NGK 5671a-7's, or part #4091 for when you order them. They work fantastic.

The breather setup is still not perfect. I have two moroso breathers that have the 5/8" hose nipples on them. I run one in each valve cover to a catch can. The catch can has a 3/4" hose coming off the top going to a cobra electric evac pump that is in the fender well. Problem is I suck up oil from one of the valve covers because the breather is positioned bad. The upper intake plenum doesn't leave me much room to space a breather on the drivers side, so I'm gonna have to re-think it and get a new set of valve covers to start over with.

[shelby6782]

thanks man i got the plugs on the way

[bikewiz]

Just an update:

Got everything fixed that needed fixing. Car runs great and is driveable daily. Changed the exhaust to a 3.5" single dump with a Borla XR-1 muffler and welded a flexjoint in the crossover between the headers so that the v-band flanges seal correctly. HP welded the kit together wrong and it was leaking from the v-band flanges because they wouldn't sit flush. Got the new valve covers installed with a healthy breather setup and a catch can with drain, it works great.

Had Strange setup my 9" with a Motive 3.50 ratio gear. The rear end is quieter than it ever has been.

The only problem I have now is that driving the car daily on Shell 93 pump gas, the best MPG I can average is 9.4 MPG. Thats pretty sad. Here in Chicago suburbs, I'm paying around $4.50/gal for premium. Simply put, I cant afford to drive the car.

[MCLFLN]

Congrats, always a good feeling when you get the problems worked out.

[N20Jnky]

Bike:

Wonderful post... I just finished a FOUR YEAR project with my car... Swapping in a 408w stroker and redoing just about everything else on the car... Your post brought back all of the memories about feeling elated when things went right, and near depression when they didn't... Funny thing tho... I'm less than one month "done", and I have bought a 87 Notch project car... UGH!!!!!

My plan is to build a low 9 second turbo car... I was down at DSS today and talked with Eric... He is suggesting a 331 FMS Boss block with XR internals... How were things resolved with them??? My other alternative is to work with Brian at ADPerformance in Seattle (where I live). I, like you, really like the look of the HP turbo set up -- but sounds like you wouldn't recommend them either. My buddy and I are installing a Stage I kit in his car, and like everyone else, they were slow shipping, missed parts, and basically screwed everything possible up... Who have you learned is a quality turbo kit to go with?

Again, I loved the post and thanks for sharing with all of us....

[bikewiz]

I would definatley go with DSS again as long as you don't have a deadline. After everything was said and done, the only beef I have with them is I walked in 12/26/06 at their facility with the full $9,000+ cash in hand and paid them in full with the agreement that the motor would be ready by the 2nd week of April '07. 2nd week of April rolls around and they said the motor was ready to be put together, but it would take them 2-3 weeks to assemble because they were behind. Instead I opted to pick up the motor in pieces and assemble it myself. They only gave me a $300 credit for taking the motor unassembled. I had it together and in the car within 24hrs of picking it up from them.

I would definately recommend DSS again, just tell them you want your motor earlier than you really need it.

I'd stay away from HP Performance. There are 2 really good turbo kits you will see here on Corral. B&G is one of them and there is another guy named Newt-Rod who sells a pretty nice 70mm kit.

[MCLFLN]

I highly recommend Brian at ADPerformance in Seattle. Also, he is a sponsor here on the Corral...so you would be helping support the site.

[bikewiz]

This thread is getting old, but a lot people have PM'd me liking the info in it.

Just an update, the car now has a TR-6060 trans, and I went back to a catback style exhaust (Dynomax Ultraflow Welded) with a custom y-pipe. One of my main concerns with running a draw-thru MAF setup was the air filter location. It was way down there behind/below the RF fog light and I always was worried about driving in the rain (even with a K&N Drycharger wrap and a splash shield):

(original mockup before splash sheld and other changes)

Now I got around to taking the time to figure out a different setup. I switched from a dinky 4 x 4" K&N filter to a 6 x 6" AFM powerstack filter and a BLOX composite velocity stack for a lot more breathing room. Let the pics speak for themselves:









I know the front impact protection is compromised slightly, but I'd rather have my airfilter high and dry.

[flyin_hawaiin]

omg, thats going to be a PITA to tune with that 90deg in front of the meter!

[MCLFLN]

Bob, you need to get him to buy and AEM! MAF problem solved