Friend dynoed 03 GT w/ MMR 900, Comp 278AH Cams, LT's etc, weighed it too

[Speeds8erM-1]

Friend of mine bought an 03 GT a couple weeks ago from another friend of mine who has had it for years.

03 GT, 5 Speed, 3.73's, dynoed on 315 Nitto DR's

MMR 900 Shortblock, pistons are notched for the cams, motor has about 20k miles
Comp 278AH Cams
Mac Longtubes
Mac Prochamber
Magnaflow Catback
Accufab 75mm Plenum & TB
JLT RAI
Tuned by RWTD

Stock heads, stock pulleys, stock maf, stock steel driveshaft.

Car put down 267 rwhp and 271 rwtq SAE Corrected on a Dynojet. The car had previously made 272 rwhp at RWTD on their dynojet a few years ago, but had an 03 Cobra aluminum flywheel in it then, it has a stock steel 99 flywheel in it now.

The cams seem to be hurting it pretty bad, it put down 269 years ago with the stock bottom end, no longtubes and stock cams.

He weighed it tonight, full weight car plus HPM Subrame Connectors and Chrome 04 Cobra Wheels, no spare or trunk carpet stuff, with 271 pound driver and a 1/4 tank of gas, 3580 on a CAT Scale which is plus/minus 20 pounds.

[Brian]

I'd cry.....sorry for being honest.

[Speeds8erM-1]

Yep, surprisingly it pulled a slightly modded 99 Cobra w/ 4.10's, JLT RAI, Bassani Catted X Pipe & Dynomax Bullets from a 35ish roll in second.

[justinschmidt1]

dyno numbers dont mean ####...I would be more worried about how the car ran at the track.


If he pulled a modded 99 cobra from a roll than his car should be getting up and going pretty well for a 2v

[Speeds8erM-1]

Eh, dyno numbers tell alot if you know what you are looking at. The car lost power on the same dyno with the longtubes and cams, then went to another dynojet and made a little less. All seems to be inline. Im not sure if the car is running that good, or if the Cobra just wasnt getting it done. We will find out when he runs some more people.

[riph22a]

do you know if the cams were degreed in? either that or something is off in the tune. also is it tuned up ie plugs, fuel filter, clean maf, all cops working to spec?

[Speeds8erM-1]

Cams werent degreed. The tune was a cheap baseline tune, but was looked at by another shop when he dynoed and he said it looked good. 13.20 air/fuel, 27 degrees of timing. The car just got plugs tonight, so no he hadnt changed the plugs recently or anything else, but when it was dynoed a few years ago everythig was new and it only made 271.

[ARCANGL]

wow... thats def low. That as long as the car runs good so be it, but it seems to be missing about 40 hp LOL

hell my car with BBK fenderwell CAI, BBK LT's, and o/r exhaust made 271rw/313rwtq... on stock throttle body

something seems off in the combination he's running

[Speeds8erM-1]

It's the cams, and the low comp motor, for sure

[swinerton]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

It's the cams, and the low comp motor, for sure

It's killing it.

[BlackSunshine02]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

It's the cams, and the low comp motor, for sure

He says it has an MMR 900 motor do we know the compression ratio?

I say it's the cams, I would kill this kid with my comp 262 cams and stock manifolds and stock block/heads! and I have less money...Something is wrong!

[94503]

gotta look at teh whole graph might of made more mid range than before

[rlovejoy]

What is the compression? Thats not a bad choice in cams but it dose need to be degreed. With a 5 speed, 373 or 410 gears ans atleast 9.5 compression those cams are great. Run a compression check to see if the compression average is the same on both sides. If its not degree the cams. the 278ah cams when installed stright up seam to run advanced on the driver side and a little retarded on the passenger side. If you get them right with long tubes thos cams are good for the 300hp range on a stock bottom. You cant buy a better n/a cam.

[Speeds8erM-1]

Originally Posted by BlackSunshine02

He says it has an MMR 900 motor do we know the compression ratio?

I say it's the cams, I would kill this kid with my comp 262 cams and stock manifolds and stock block/heads! and I have less money...Something is wrong!

Probably lower than stock, it was built with a blower in mind and the pistons are notched.

[Speeds8erM-1]

Originally Posted by 94503

gotta look at teh whole graph might of made more mid range than before

It lost like 80 ft pounds in the mid range vs boltons lol

[Speeds8erM-1]

Originally Posted by rlovejoy

What is the compression? Thats not a bad choice in cams but it dose need to be degreed. With a 5 speed, 373 or 410 gears ans atleast 9.5 compression those cams are great. Run a compression check to see if the compression average is the same on both sides. If its not degree the cams. the 278ah cams when installed stright up seam to run advanced on the driver side and a little retarded on the passenger side. If you get them right with long tubes thos cams are good for the 300hp range on a stock bottom. You cant buy a better n/a cam.

I havent really seen many people running them n/a, hmmmm, you think there is that much power in it degreeing them?

[rlovejoy]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

I havent really seen many people running them n/a, hmmmm, you think there is that much power in it degreeing them?

Yes. I have always run my car n/a and have used 14 different cam set ups and have put the 278s back in 4 times. I cant get any thing else to come within 20 hp on my 11 to 1 ported stroker. but they have to be degreed. For some reason the driver side is almost always advanced. I have installed 23 sets of comp cams in various mod motors and it may be just my luck but on the first check I always find the drivers side advanced 6 to 8 and the passenger side back 2 degrees for a total difference of 8 to 10 degrees. I usually set them up on a 110 degree center line wich is 1 degree advanced. Made 69 hp on my motor at the fly wheel over stock bump sticks. Only improved about 10 hp over stock before I degreed them.

[Speeds8erM-1]

Ported, and stroker are possibly key words as well. Have you tried them on a stock headed stock cube motor?

[rlovejoy]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

Ported, and stroker are possibly key words as well. Have you tried them on a stock headed stock cube motor?

Yes, HP up more than a stg 2 cam but tq suffers down low with stock converter, need at least 300 stall with auto and 410 gears,no less. I think it would be pretty much the same with any stg 3 cam on a stock head and bottom, The thing is you cant even get away with it without .040 head gaskets or a fly cut job wich I dont like on a stock piston but have done it with sucess. The dss stroker 10 cc piston dosnt even have to be fly cut even with a .020 cometic gasket.

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by rlovejoy

I usually set them up on a 110 degree center line wich is 1 degree advanced. Made 69 hp on my motor at the fly wheel over stock bump sticks. Only improved about 10 hp over stock before I degreed them.

I have recently done a crap ton of research and N/A 2V seem to make the most HP with 110 install centerline no matter what the cam is. Same cams no matter the brand always seem down 10-40RWHP at 114+centerline which is what you have to do with ~235+ duration at 050 to keep the valve from hitting a non notched piston.

Since the OP cams are not degreed I agree that I would look there first.

[Speeds8erM-1]

My friend has been looking at degree kits, solid lifter to do this with, adjustable cam gears and everything else since I told em about mr lovejoy's results today haha

[99MustangGTman]

Those cams are way too aggressive for the car.

[BULLITT1992]

He definitely needs to have someone look into this closer. It really sounds like the worst of both worlds if he is now making less HP than before and loss 80 hp in the midrange. Having the cams degreed and getting a real tune would be a few things worth considering.

[rlovejoy]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

My friend has been looking at degree kits, solid lifter to do this with, adjustable cam gears and everything else since I told em about mr lovejoy's results today haha

Do a compression check first to see if thats the problem. Remove all the coil packs and spark plugs. Tie the throttle wide open. Remove the fuel pump fuse. When you check each cylinder count the revolutions and do each cylinder the same number of turns. 5 or 6 compression strokes is a good number. Do all one side and then the other. If you get somthing like #1=175 #2 =170 #3=180 #4=172 other side #5= 169 #6=174 #7=176 #8=170 then cam timing is close. but if you get somthing like #1=180 #2=175 #3=169 #4=172 other side #5=150 #6=155 #7=149 #8=154 . You get the idea. The most important thing about cam timing in our motors is getting the cams to work together. If the pistons and valves, rings are in good shape and the average compression is lower on one side than the other you have a cam timing issue.

[Speeds8erM-1]

I told em to do a compression test but he is now stuck in the mindset of "they are off, #### it, they are off, Im getting the stuff to fix it", but I agree he needs to test it first.

Another friend of mine has a 9 second Lightning and never degrees his cams and has good luck thus far, but this 03 GT seems to need something and I bet this is it.

[rlovejoy]

I told em to do a compression test but he is now stuck in the mindset of "they are off, #### it, they are off, Im getting the stuff to fix it", but I agree he needs to test it first.

If the cam timing is off the comprission test will prove it. Check the compression. This is not an easy jop in the car and there is no since in doing it if its not needed, also the compression test will tell you what you are looking for. Some of the dino guys out there dont even own a degree wheel, they just start advancing the low compression side untill its even. They dont even remove the high side valve cover and swear that this method works better.

[AJMD69]

What about MAF, injectors, fuel pump? Are they maxed out? I have nearly the same setup with stock short block but I have ported stage II Heads cobra maf and 24# injectors. My car has 106K miles on it. I made 314 HP @ 5800 and 318 TRQ @ 4600.

Has he run it down the track yet? I have yet to run mine since the dyno tune @ JPC but I have added a Stewart EMP water pump and a march fluid dampner. I will try to get some new track numbers myself.

[Speeds8erM-1]

There is no way it's pegging anything with 267 rwhp, plus it has a Focus Pump & BAP, nothing looked wrong in the tune according to the other shop that looked at it. He actually took it in there to get it retuned, figuring the tune from years ago was just not good enough, he told em to save his money for now.

He hasnt run it at the track, it's not gonna run great, my friend cant launch a car, and it weighs 3580 with him in it. The car went 8.40's@82.56 or so years ago with boltons, no lt's, stock cats.

Another thing I forgot to compare was the bolton numbers at 272 rwhp were with UD pulleys, it doesnt have them anymore

[CamFox]

Thats terrible on a dynojet. Dynojets are known for being high as they dont load the chassis and that would equate to around 240-250 on a mustang dyno......DAMN

Ive got an idea why its so low lol.

[Speeds8erM-1]

He did a compression test, and it was 178 average on one side, 158 average on the other

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Speeds8erM-1

He did a compression test, and it was 178 average on one side, 158 average on the other

Probably giving up 20+hp in the cam timing it sounds like.

[rlovejoy]

There you go, you know what the problem is and where it is.

[Speeds8erM-1]

I have noticed NOBODY in this area degrees cams in these cars, everytime I mention it, people look at me funny lol. I wonder if my friend's Vortech 02 GT is leaving any power on the table with his Crower Stage II's being installed straight up.

[Speeds8erM-1]

The car has done decent for what it is, but Im sure there are other factors at hand with the cars he has raced.

It's in here vs my friend's 99 Cobra, but the Cobra only got shifted at 6400 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5...250_648469.htm

Beating down a H22A CRX here and running an 01 GT that makes 13 less hp, but more torque and has 4.10's, 4.10's dont appear to work worth a damn on the roll races lol http://videos.streetfire.net/video/C...-vs_681950.htm

[BULLITT1992]

You can't always tell a lot by street races, get that thing on a track and see what kind of time it puts down.