Advantages of Turbos over Nitrous.

[Jetfast50]

Me personally, I like to spray the hell out of a motor straight threw the turbo.

[blksn955.o]

Originally Posted by millhouse

..as a proper turbo setup is going to have...with more torque every time.

On avg. an equally built setup I would have to say no to the mention of more tq. every time. Say the avg. person is running 10-15lbs of boost in a 302 based motor making 450rwhp and around 400-425ftlb. From my viewing of dyno graphs on the webz and people posting up about the hp/tq of boosted apps (both turbo and charger) the torque is rarely over the hp number and if so not by much and at most right around one another.

Take an avg. n2o combo and with say a 150-175 shot on it. It is not uncommon for a n2o combo to make well over 200ftlbs from a 150 shot...say your at 315hp/300ftbls-ish at the tires n/a then add a 150 shot...taking away from power loss it is very easy that combo will put down 425-450rwhp and 500ftlb. Nothing will probably equal the quickness of the power hit either...off to on, on demand. If n2o does one thing at all it is make gobs of torque (why it is sometimes even called torque in a bottle). Also depending on were your running the alt. and weather does not play as big a role...say its hot and humid turbos will probably not be working to their best...n2o is -125* with X oxygen regardless (why n2o is sometimes called atmosphere in a bottle).

Again this is on avg street driven cars...not purpose built track cars but cars you have greater chances to see on the street on a regular basis but still put together properly.

The devil is in the details and both are great if used correctly...for one I love turbos and hope to build one someday. I have a n2o setup and love it for the simple fact it is not always there. I can knock down 24+ mpg as well and on less than 93 octane. That savings would cover the price of n2o. Turbos are just so damn cool though and make great power and can be turned up easier than a charger. Even a charger is a nice setup once you get to the level your looking for. All 3 compete with one another and all 3 win.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by blksn955.o

On avg. an equally built setup I would have to say no to the mention of more tq. every time. Say the avg. person is running 10-15lbs of boost in a 302 based motor making 450rwhp and around 400-425ftlb. From my viewing of dyno graphs on the webz and people posting up about the hp/tq of boosted apps (both turbo and charger) the torque is rarely over the hp number and if so not by much and at most right around one another.

Take an avg. n2o combo and with say a 150-175 shot on it. It is not uncommon for a n2o combo to make well over 200ftlbs from a 150 shot...say your at 315hp/300ftbls-ish at the tires n/a then add a 150 shot...taking away from power loss it is very easy that combo will put down 425-450rwhp and 500ftlb. Nothing will probably equal the quickness of the power hit either...off to on, on demand. If n2o does one thing at all it is make gobs of torque (why it is sometimes even called torque in a bottle). Also depending on were your running the alt. and weather does not play as big a role...say its hot and humid turbos will probably not be working to their best...n2o is -125* with X oxygen regardless (why n2o is sometimes called atmosphere in a bottle).

Again this is on avg street driven cars...not purpose built track cars but cars you have greater chances to see on the street on a regular basis but still put together properly.

The devil is in the details and both are great if used correctly...for one I love turbos and hope to build one someday. I have a n2o setup and love it for the simple fact it is not always there. I can knock down 24+ mpg as well and on less than 93 octane. That savings would cover the price of n2o. Turbos are just so damn cool though and make great power and can be turned up easier than a charger. Even a charger is a nice setup once you get to the level your looking for. All 3 compete with one another and all 3 win.

One of the advantages of a properly setup turbo is the broad torque along with the gobs of torque they produce. It's not uncommon at all to see torque levels eclipse horsepower levels...and actually quite the opposite (see sig). Seeing as it also creates it's own atmosphere....it's also not going to be affected the way nitrous would be at higher elevations. You would effectively have to increase the nitrous shot at higher elevations to compensate for the power lost in n/a form.

There is no doubt though on how instant nitrous is...and the cooling effects are advantages even with turbo setups.

I will say though that I can get upwards of 28mpg on the freeway....albeit difficult. 24mph seems to be the norm for me. Sure I have to pay a bit more for premium....but the extra costs (15-20 cents per gallon) are minimal.

[blksn955.o]

mid 11's at 127 damn...do you let off at the 1/8th or get 3-4 second 60fts? That is what 1.5 seconds off what the mph shows you can do.

Your combo is basically what I want to do down the road with twins or a t67 single. I bet that is a lot of fun on the street. combo to combo...go race and see who wins in the end I dont think a closely matched race will be boring to watch no matter who wins.

higher alt. is a killer for boost as well as less atmosphere pres. is avail. I have heard people say n2o is easier to tune at alt. or at least not as effected by the alt.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by blksn955.o

mid 11's at 127 damn...do you let off at the 1/8th or get 3-4 second 60fts? That is what 1.5 seconds off what the mph shows you can do.

Your combo is basically what I want to do down the road with twins or a t67 single. I bet that is a lot of fun on the street. combo to combo...go race and see who wins in the end I dont think a closely matched race will be boring to watch no matter who wins.

higher alt. is a killer for boost as well as less atmosphere pres. is avail. I have heard people say n2o is easier to tune at alt. or at least not as effected by the alt.

Yeah, my 2-step was malfunctioning and it was my first time out with my new 15" MT street radials (previously running 17" nittos). I believe my 60's were in the 2.0 - 2.1 range! To top it all off, I was breaking up on the big end due to a faulty (brand new) MSD cap and rotor. Come to find out the rotor tip broke off! My ET's will be dropping next year for sure!

As for altitude changes, you have to remember that turbo setups are unlike other types of forced induction in that they have the ability to control boost based off of the engines vacuum/pressure. At higher elevations, you will have virtually the same horsepower as lower elevations. The wastegates won't open until they have reached their internal setting....so you will reach the same amount of positive manifold pressure. It's for that reason that SAE elevation correction is limited to a max of 3%...and that is at the extreme side of the spectrum.

FYI, here is a small clip of a vid I took a couple of years ago. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/T...sin_141490.htm

[blksn955.o]

That makes sense about the wastegate but you would still think it is working harder or at least taking longer to build up the power as there is less air volume to be had at higher alt.

I understand the tire change...I started at least running BFG DR at the track vs. the street tires I had been running. Best 60ft on street tires was a 1.9...best so far on DR is 2.1 the last run I made that night. Got some great advice and that 2.1 was .3 from the prior best...just need to work on it a tad more. Hope to get a 1.7-1.8 range on avg. before going to a MT DR or ET street.

DAMN nice setup 5 lug and all again basically what I want to do down the road...I may have to do it to the 94 down the road but I would love to also get a notch and do that.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by blksn955.o

That makes sense about the wastegate but you would still think it is working harder or at least taking longer to build up the power as there is less air volume to be had at higher alt.

I understand the tire change...I started at least running BFG DR at the track vs. the street tires I had been running. Best 60ft on street tires was a 1.9...best so far on DR is 2.1 the last run I made that night. Got some great advice and that 2.1 was .3 from the prior best...just need to work on it a tad more. Hope to get a 1.7-1.8 range on avg. before going to a MT DR or ET street.

DAMN nice setup 5 lug and all again basically what I want to do down the road...I may have to do it to the 94 down the road but I would love to also get a notch and do that.

It may take longer to build boost...but then again, with the already less dense air....there shouldn't be as much resistance in the first place. Really I'm not sure on that one. Lag may be increased slightly....although I wouldn't think by much.

Yeah, that run I had was fresh off of the freeway with a 45 minute summer drive to the track. As for launching....yeah, it's going to take some time and some PRACTICE! In n/a stock longblock form (sans upper/lower intake) it wasn’t out of the norm to cut 1.7’s on my 17” nitto’s. The extra power however is sooooo much harder to control without going to a full out slick. Using only skinny 235’s doesn’t help too much….but with the proper technique and a functioning 2-step, 1.6 or lower 60’s shouldn’t be out of the question.

[Chuck98GT]

If you are spraying NAAWS on the street, make sure you don't spray it to soon. I saw a VW jetta loose bad one time spraying too soon.

[ifucan]

all i will say to the yahoos on here...11.06@123 stock 130k mile shortblock, stock cam, stock ecu/no piggyback, p heads, typhoon intake, 30lb injectors and a NOS big shot efi kit set for 150hp...nitrous rules..."from a streetcar to a racecar at the flip of a switch"

I can get ALOT of bottle refills for the 5k price of the ots turbo kits...yes i know you can diy it for relatively cheap, but then again how long did it take you to install the turbo and 'work' the bugs out w/the tuner and all...all i had to do was pull my upper intake and put the plate on...

Lets not talk about which is better on the street...millhouse, didn't appear from that video that your car gets great traction, so I don't think anyone gets to play that card

Far as im conserned, for cheapie cars (i.e. cars running 9's and slower) nitrous rules because of it being cheap...once you get faster than that things change...for instance Troy Pirez has a 600+ci motor on nitrous and runs 4.8x's in the 1/8 while an aquaintance of mine does the same w/a tt cobra but only 427 cubes...

again it depends on purpose...when i build an all out race car it will be turbo, but for the street, nitrous is fast enough for me

[my8950]

I dont know, I'd just drive around and purge my NOS, what else is it supposed to do? I've seen those kits too that have a blu-ish LED that you mount near it so the purge is lit up, thats kinda cool too...

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by ifucan

all i will say to the yahoos on here...11.06@123 stock 130k mile shortblock, stock cam, stock ecu/no piggyback, p heads, typhoon intake, 30lb injectors and a NOS big shot efi kit set for 150hp...nitrous rules..."from a streetcar to a racecar at the flip of a switch"

I can get ALOT of bottle refills for the 5k price of the ots turbo kits...yes i know you can diy it for relatively cheap, but then again how long did it take you to install the turbo and 'work' the bugs out w/the tuner and all...all i had to do was pull my upper intake and put the plate on...

Lets not talk about which is better on the street...millhouse, didn't appear from that video that your car gets great traction, so I don't think anyone gets to play that card

Far as im conserned, for cheapie cars (i.e. cars running 9's and slower) nitrous rules because of it being cheap...once you get faster than that things change...for instance Troy Pirez has a 600+ci motor on nitrous and runs 4.8x's in the 1/8 while an aquaintance of mine does the same w/a tt cobra but only 427 cubes...

again it depends on purpose...when i build an all out race car it will be turbo, but for the street, nitrous is fast enough for me

There are many...many...many turbo kit's running around on a stock longblock running comparable if not better times (without the need to refill bottles or flip switches). I'm not dissing you're times (your obviously able to hook up quite well), but really...it proves nothing.

There are many...many kit's available for the 5.0 mustang under $3000 (B&G currently has a sale for $2500). Those kit's can be installed and perfectly tuned in a weekend. There are no bugs if you take it to a qualified tuner. Don't forget too that most of us tubo guys get the added fuel economy from runny a lower numeric gear ratio (not that most of us care).

As for me...considering I fabricated most everything myself....I didn't car about time. The same goes in regards to tuning. It's something I wanted to learn....and as most everything it takes a bit of time to do so. Most only need to go to a tuner.

I will say that if you are running around with p heads and no tune...you are likely short-changing yourself on power. It's not uncommon to pick up 15+ horsepower after a head swap with a simple tune.

As for traction...I was then running around on bald nitto 17" drag radials in 40* weather. Traction was obviously an issue. With my current skinny 235 60 15 MT street radials....traction is far, far better.

It's quite apparent that both turbo and nitrous setups producing similar power are going to have the same traction issues. For many of us that go WOT on a regular basis, the bottle would be a detriment to not only our budget...but our fun factor.

[D1COUPE]

Turbos are just better hands down!

[ifucan]

Originally Posted by millhouse

There are many...many...many turbo kit's running around on a stock longblock running comparable if not better times (without the need to refill bottles or flip switches). I'm not dissing you're times (your obviously able to hook up quite well), but really...it proves nothing.

There are many...many kit's available for the 5.0 mustang under $3000 (B&G currently has a sale for $2500). Those kit's can be installed and perfectly tuned in a weekend. There are no bugs if you take it to a qualified tuner. Don't forget too that most of us tubo guys get the added fuel economy from runny a lower numeric gear ratio (not that most of us care).

As for me...considering I fabricated most everything myself....I didn't car about time. The same goes in regards to tuning. It's something I wanted to learn....and as most everything it takes a bit of time to do so. Most only need to go to a tuner.

I will say that if you are running around with p heads and no tune...you are likely short-changing yourself on power. It's not uncommon to pick up 15+ horsepower after a head swap with a simple tune.

As for traction...I was then running around on bald nitto 17" drag radials in 40* weather. Traction was obviously an issue. With my current skinny 235 60 15 MT street radials....traction is far, far better.

It's quite apparent that both turbo and nitrous setups producing similar power are going to have the same traction issues. For many of us that go WOT on a regular basis, the bottle would be a detriment to not only our budget...but our fun factor.

Millhouse, first i would like to thank you for speaking to me, not down at me...i like having ideological debates w/o the pissing/moaning...truth be told, neither of us is wrong because it has to do with preference...just a few more points that swayed me away from turbo to nitrous...

1. Yes you can learn to turn yourself but must invest time and money or just pay someone else for theirs, while this may offer some an intrinsic reward I have always said that I don't care what method I use to go fast, I just want to (so 2500 for the kit and 500-750 for a tune or software, I think we can both agree that the turbo car will not run well w/o a tune whereas the nitrous car will)
2. With nitrous due to the torque, i run 3.55's or 3.73's, and i too was getting over 20 mpg
3. I can certainly agree that cold weather will adversly affect traction esp on a turbo car that will make more power in dense air.
4. I didn't want to add weight to a car or heat to the enginebay(dont know how much a turbo setup weighs but it would def be more than a bottle, plus it is over the front end)
5. Many turbo setups I see cut the car (i.e. fenderwells are trimmed), to me this was the deciding factor and while the diy setup could enable you to move the turbo where you want, it just seemed like too much hassle
6. I believe you made a comment about turbo creating its own atmosphere, partially true but not entirely...remember it is only taking ambient air and generally increasing the temp whereas the nitrous is truely making its own atmosphere...nitrous is -130 degrees at the nozzle i believe check out the temp guage on this manifold (I know a manifold isn't going to be 80 degrees on a running car but...) http://www.zex.com/Base/Video/ZEXPlate_WEB.wmv
7. Fuel system, does not need to be very intricate on a nitrous car (Tuten in '03 proved this low 10's w/nothing more than a 255 inthe tank, stock rails and all) try to do that w/a turbo setup and your asking for problems...ive had friends burnup quite a few motors due to this (supercharger combos which bsfc is less than turbo).
8. Lastly, I agree that the turbo whistle/bov is much cooler than purging...that is so 90's.

That p headed combo was '05, '07 I had a 347 on nitrous and now I am building a 351w based wilson manifolds dual stage setup, hopefully putting the other combos to shame...

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by ifucan

Millhouse, first i would like to thank you for speaking to me, not down at me...i like having ideological debates w/o the pissing/moaning...truth be told, neither of us is wrong because it has to do with preference...just a few more points that swayed me away from turbo to nitrous...

Agreed.

1. Yes you can learn to turn yourself but must invest time and money or just pay someone else for theirs, while this may offer some an intrinsic reward I have always said that I don't care what method I use to go fast, I just want to (so 2500 for the kit and 500-750 for a tune or software, I think we can both agree that the turbo car will not run well w/o a tune whereas the nitrous car will)

There are quite a few guys running around with simply a matching MAF meter for their larger injectors (sloped for forced induction) along with locking the timing in the 18* range. It may be far from ideal...but quite often it works (although I don't condone it). Likewise with an FMU. They work quite well...although they typically leave you running rich leaving some horsepower on the table. I will agree though, to do it right is going to cost a minimum of $500.

2. With nitrous due to the torque, i run 3.55's or 3.73's, and i too was getting over 20 mpg

I average 24mpg on the freeway @ 75mph and if I'm careful can get upwards of 28mpg at 65mph. That's the beauty of turbo's....and the ability to run 3.27 gearing.

3. I can certainly agree that cold weather will adversly affect traction esp on a turbo car that will make more power in dense air.

Cold air definitely increases horsepower...and reduces traction. It also allows the intercooler to function that much more efficiently.

4. I didn't want to add weight to a car or heat to the enginebay(dont know how much a turbo setup weighs but it would def be more than a bottle, plus it is over the front end)

I would imagine it would add quite a bit more than the bottle....although most require you to remove the smog, helping minimize the addition. Many of us relocate the battery to the rear, aiding f/r weight distribution. I myself swapped over to an aftermarket k-member/a-ams along with coil overs. Subtract the additional weight saved from aluminum heads...and I'd venture to say even with my turbo kit I'm likely under 3k lbs.

5. Many turbo setups I see cut the car (i.e. fenderwells are trimmed), to me this was the deciding factor and while the diy setup could enable you to move the turbo where you want, it just seemed like too much hassle

Many do...and many don't. It's just a matter of finding the proper one. I myself made my own....which required virtually no trimming at all.

6. I believe you made a comment about turbo creating its own atmosphere, partially true but not entirely...remember it is only taking ambient air and generally increasing the temp whereas the nitrous is truely making its own atmosphere...nitrous is -130 degrees at the nozzle i believe check out the temp guage on this manifold (I know a manifold isn't going to be 80 degrees on a running car but...) http://www.zex.com/Base/Video/ZEXPlate_WEB.wmv

A turbo or supercharger does create it's own atmosphere (seen as positive pressure at the manifold). The increased air temps are a result of pressurizing only....which can be cooled back down with the aide of an intercooler.

Nitrous does not create it's own atmosphere...but rather is a chemical additive. The difference can be seen by looking at a vacuum gauge while on the juice under wot.

7. Fuel system, does not need to be very intricate on a nitrous car (Tuten in '03 proved this low 10's w/nothing more than a 255 inthe tank, stock rails and all) try to do that w/a turbo setup and your asking for problems...ive had friends burnup quite a few motors due to this (supercharger combos which bsfc is less than turbo).

Most of us turbo guys on the stock blocks are running around with nothing more than injectors & and 255 in-tank pump....any many of us are too running 10's (with traction, I SHOULD be there too. ). Superchargers are a different beast....and because of the extra parasitic drag on the crank will require a bigger fuel system per rwhp when compared to a turbo setup.

8. Lastly, I agree that the turbo whistle/bov is much cooler than purging...that is so 90's.

I still love the looks/sounds of a nice cobra setup purging out of it's mouth (emblems on the front or side).

That p headed combo was '05, '07 I had a 347 on nitrous and now I am building a 351w based wilson manifolds dual stage setup, hopefully putting the other combos to shame...

If I had to do it again, I would have skipped straight to a 351w setup for my twins with bigger hair dryers. It's easy to make 500+rwhp on a 302 with low boost levels....using a 351w as a base should make 600+rwhp on the same boost levels easily! 700rwhp would be as simple as turning the boost controller up a notch. Good luck with your setup man!

[ifucan]

Originally Posted by millhouse

Good luck with your setup man!

thanks, you too

I just realized how off topic we got...to the original question

I believe for all out race combos nitrous has difficulty because of the abrupt power that comes on, which makes traction a problem and is very hard on parts...the instantaneous pressure jump the cylinder sees w/nitrous is hard on everything from rings/pistons to bearings...the paradox that is unique w/nitrous is that the instant you hit the button, that is the most tq you will see (generally it falls from that point on) whereas a turbo will be flat and a supercharger will rise until the efficiency of the blower is met then fall. The thing with nitrous is that were it is hardest go get traction (1st 60') is where you have to win because that is the most tq you will see and due to the topend charge of the turbo cars (sometimes upward of 40+mph on the back half of the track). I remember an article interviewing Sam Vincent (NMRA SSO racer) who said he had to have a turbo car covered by a tenth to the 330' to make it a race.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by ifucan

thanks, you too

I just realized how off topic we got...to the original question

I believe for all out race combos nitrous has difficulty because of the abrupt power that comes on, which makes traction a problem and is very hard on parts...the instantaneous pressure jump the cylinder sees w/nitrous is hard on everything from rings/pistons to bearings...the paradox that is unique w/nitrous is that the instant you hit the button, that is the most tq you will see (generally it falls from that point on) whereas a turbo will be flat and a supercharger will rise until the efficiency of the blower is met then fall. The thing with nitrous is that were it is hardest go get traction (1st 60') is where you have to win because that is the most tq you will see and due to the topend charge of the turbo cars (sometimes upward of 40+mph on the back half of the track). I remember an article interviewing Sam Vincent (NMRA SSO racer) who said he had to have a turbo car covered by a tenth to the 330' to make it a race.

[Angry_Man]

Wow, sometimes threads do get off track. The original question was: "I am told that a nitrous car can't really compete with a turbo car? Why?"

What level of competition are you asking about? Street strip stuff both have their ups and downs. Outlaw style competition is a different game.

[ls1killa]

Originally Posted by ifucan

all i will say to the yahoos on here...11.06@123 stock 130k mile shortblock, stock cam, stock ecu/no piggyback, p heads, typhoon intake, 30lb injectors and a NOS big shot efi kit set for 150hp...nitrous rules..."from a streetcar to a racecar at the flip of a switch"

I can get ALOT of bottle refills for the 5k price of the ots turbo kits...yes i know you can diy it for relatively cheap, but then again how long did it take you to install the turbo and 'work' the bugs out w/the tuner and all...all i had to do was pull my upper intake and put the plate on...

Lets not talk about which is better on the street...millhouse, didn't appear from that video that your car gets great traction, so I don't think anyone gets to play that card

Far as im conserned, for cheapie cars (i.e. cars running 9's and slower) nitrous rules because of it being cheap...once you get faster than that things change...for instance Troy Pirez has a 600+ci motor on nitrous and runs 4.8x's in the 1/8 while an aquaintance of mine does the same w/a tt cobra but only 427 cubes...

again it depends on purpose...when i build an all out race car it will be turbo, but for the street, nitrous is fast enough for me

that's a damn shame 11.0's on p heads and my friend can't even run that with a aluminum head set up. What's funny is your car is faster then his and jake lamotta tuned it. This go's to show that lamotta is taking him and he is full of s h I t!

[OldFourEyes]

LoL - Turbos gotta wait, but nitrous is nevah late.

Can't beat oodles worth of testicularly-torsionating torque!

[ifucan]

[QUOTE=ls1killa;8445486]that's a damn shame 11.0's on p heads QUOTE]

and that was only one night on the worst 60' (1.53 compared to a 1.46 when I ran out of nitrous) of all my nitrous runs...give me time to play with some variables and it would've went high 10.8x's...then I'd but the 200 or even 250 gun to it and pull the pin

[Thewhite88pony]

Comparing nitrous to a nice turbo setup is like comparing a blower to a turbo.

It's just not in the same league.

[johnsvt]

Turbos are great power adders, but can be hard to tune and uber expensive in comparison to a No2 setup. However, for simple stuff, lets say a 10 sec weekend warrior No2 can be great much cheaper and if tuned right the car can be dead consistent. Can a No2 car compete? sure can...it just may need to be a little lighter than a turbo car.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by johnsvt

Turbos are great power adders, but can be hard to tune and uber expensive in comparison to a No2 setup. However, for simple stuff, lets say a 10 sec weekend warrior No2 can be great much cheaper and if tuned right the car can be dead consistent. Can a No2 car compete? sure can...it just may need to be a little lighter than a turbo car.

They (turbo's) are neither hard to tune...nor uber expensive. Both methods will require a dyno tune to get the most out of them...and both methods have their el-cheapo methods that require minimal tuning.

There is no doubt about costs though....as nothing can compete with the up-front costs of n02.

[CamFox]

i like all power adders. but you cant say a turbo kit isnt expensive.....350 bucks for a nitrous kit to make ALOT of torque.....slap it on in a couple of hours and go. Turbo kits take time and ALOT of money (couple grand easily).

If i had lots of money id prolly have a boosted car. But nitrous kits are cheap as hell and can keep on going easily. bottle fills don't bother me that much, its worth it for that nasty torque hit

[LS2 KLR]

I use to get alittle over 200rwhp out of my setup, ran it for over 3yrs. For a street car, it was alittle too much. Hard to tame that big of a shot. Sure it was alot of fun but my car is much faster now with the turbo setup. And once I install my auto, it will be that much better.

[cmb91LX]

turbo guys will never concede the fact that something out there is = or greater than a turbo setup. Plain and simple, they wont open their eyes.

I have had a turbo fox, KB 97, 2 prochargers on a 97, and a N2O fox. That beign said, with all the headaches of a turbo kit, exhaust gaskets, excessive heat burning #### up, tubing in the way of everything, and the constant maintenance, belts and tubing on procharger, I am going to nitrous on my 97. It hits hard and I'm sorry but my nitrous fox was faster than my turbo fox, both on AFR headed 306, 175 of gas and T70 @10-12psi, the nitrous setup was faster and easier to maintain and deal with. So what ifyou have to fill bottles, I'd rather pay to fill bottles than to spend all my time keeping everything in check and the car running, whats your time worth?

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by cmb91LX

turbo guys will never concede the fact that something out there is = or greater than a turbo setup. Plain and simple, they wont open their eyes.

I have had a turbo fox, KB 97, 2 prochargers on a 97, and a N2O fox. That beign said, with all the headaches of a turbo kit, exhaust gaskets, excessive heat burning #### up, tubing in the way of everything, and the constant maintenance, belts and tubing on procharger, I am going to nitrous on my 97. It hits hard and I'm sorry but my nitrous fox was faster than my turbo fox, both on AFR headed 306, 175 of gas and T70 @10-12psi, the nitrous setup was faster and easier to maintain and deal with. So what ifyou have to fill bottles, I'd rather pay to fill bottles than to spend all my time keeping everything in check and the car running, whats your time worth?

I'm sorry to say, if you had an issue with reliability...it's the fault of your setup and or tune. With a proper turbo setup, there is no reason to be burning anything up, nor is there any reason to be blowing gaskets.

I'm curious, how quick was your T70 setup running 12psi? That should have been an easy low 10 second ride with a decent launch.

A for spending money on bottles....have fun with that. The only cash I dish out for my turbo stang is subtle upgrades every year....and nothing related to upkeep of the turbo setup. Again, a proper turbo setup will not require any more maintenance than a naturally aspirated one.

[larrylass]

First off i love nitrous, i have it on my car ,i dont feel its expensive compared to the cost of a turbo setup.What i like most of all is the n2o is only on for the time of the run and goes in cold drastically reducing cylinder pressures during normal driving and not needing an intercooler setup That being said though just go to turbomustangs .com and you will see very quickly who the Boss of the poweradders is.

BigLar

[cmb91LX]

Originally Posted by millhouse

I'm curious, how quick was your T70 setup running 12psi? That should have been an easy low 10 second ride with a decent launch.

never ran the car at the track, but it was def no 10 sec car, wasnt setup for drag anyway. the nitrous hit harder more immediately than the turbo spooled.

Either way, I'm changing from Procharger to Nitrous on my 97 and personally wouldnt go turbo again, its not about crazy always available power to me, its about having a little fun every now and then and retaining true stock-like driveability. Dont get me wrong, I like a well setup turbo and respect its potential, but I'm too lazy to stay on top of it.

[Angry_Man]

Reversion becomes an issue with nitrous in the super high hp applications.
At this time boost has the ability to fill the cylinders better.

Figure out how to inject nitrous into the cylinders with the valves closed and turbos/blowers will become a thing of the past.
Just my opinion..

[red89coupe]

this thread makes me laugh !!!! It all really depends on what YOU see as a advantage and the setups. you cant compare a stockish motor/SMALL turbo with 8 psi to a stockish motor running a 300 shot lol same goes for a stockish motor and a SMALL dry shot vs stockish motor big turbo and GOBS of boost lol

I have had both and for ME the turbo has been better.. for ME!!

MY reasons are going to be different then others but I will throw them out.

$65 a bottle fill here vs $25 back home adds up quick.
it was hard for me to keep bottle pressure. Ohio sucks its allways cold!!
left bottle close before a race..way off my dial in lol. That sucked lol
left bottle open on way home from track and got pulled over.. REALLY sucked!

so I switched to turbo.. same motor went 13.6@ 101 N/A 12.8@112 on a 100 shot and 12.1@ 120 with 8 psi. only took a weekend to install and the ONLY issue I have had is.. TRACTION lol

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by cmb91LX

never ran the car at the track, but it was def no 10 sec car, wasnt setup for drag anyway. the nitrous hit harder more immediately than the turbo spooled.

Either way, I'm changing from Procharger to Nitrous on my 97 and personally wouldnt go turbo again, its not about crazy always available power to me, its about having a little fun every now and then and retaining true stock-like driveability. Dont get me wrong, I like a well setup turbo and respect its potential, but I'm too lazy to stay on top of it.

It may not have been a 10 second car, but with that setup and 12psi...it should have had mid-low 10 second power with 550-600rwhp.

There is also no reason to not have stock-like drive-ability with any power adder, be it super, turbo or nitrous. Obviously nitrous will be the easiest to tune, but with a proper setup....and power adder can have excellent drive-ability. Will it cost more...hell yes it will. If you want all of that power on demand with stock-like drive-ability....a proper tune is a MUST. If your are not the type that goes WOT several times when you take the stang out, then the bottle may suit you just fine.

[High_Voltage]

I have to say that I am a fan of nitrous.....or was til I ran at a local track and bottle went dry and found out said track didn't offer refills. I am now in the process of installing a B&G kit. I ran a best of 10.95 on spray, 150 shot, and I am praying to at least equal the ET as I am still running a TKO tranny. But the nitrous was absolutely fun launching wheels up, which will be dearly missed, but if turbo will save from running out of bottles and destroying control arm bushings and running retarded timing all the time on the street while not spraying, then I'll never look back. Holy damn run on sentence Batman.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by High_Voltage

I have to say that I am a fan of nitrous.....or was til I ran at a local track and bottle went dry and found out said track didn't offer refills. I am now in the process of installing a B&G kit. I ran a best of 10.95 on spray, 150 shot, and I am praying to at least equal the ET as I am still running a TKO tranny. But the nitrous was absolutely fun launching wheels up, which will be dearly missed, but if turbo will save from running out of bottles and destroying control arm bushings and running retarded timing all the time on the street while not spraying, then I'll never look back. Holy damn run on sentence Batman.

There is no reason you can’t launch with the wheels up on boost. A 2-step will do quite well building boost on the line. Simply set the 2-step, mash the gas pedal and watch the boost rise while you’re on the line. The loud bangs, pop’s and backfires are an added bonus!

[High_Voltage]

I have already installed two-step fired on horn button. I also still have 3.73 gears in the rear end. I guess I'll have to get a baseline down to motivate another gear change. I don't think the rtv on the diff cover is dry yet from the rebuild two months ago. Sucks. Wish I would have foreseen the change coming.