Snow Performance Boost Cooler® adds 60HP through water methanol injection

msnow · 09-24-2003, 11:02 AM

Snow Performance Boost Cooler® adds 60HP through water methanol injection
New BoostCooler® with improved activation that varies the quantity injected with boost for better mid-range power and improved chemical intercooling.

Snow Performance has developed a new Stage-2 BoostCooler® water/methanol injection system that uses a new Variable Controller that varies the quantity injected with boost. Because the correct amount is injected at all RPM/boost levels, power and drivability is much improved over the typical on-off systems. The Variable Controller features adjustments for onset boost level and full quantity boost level so the injection curve can be maximized for each application and can be mounted under hood or on the dash for adjustments while driving.

Other Stage-2 features include a 200psi pump for even better cooling/atomization, and a level switch to indicate when to add fluid. Retail price on the new system is $399

Designed as a chemical intercooler for supercharged/turbocharged applications for increased air density, timing, and power, the BoostCooler® can also be used in naturally aspirated and nitrous applications to greatly reduce detonation. The system injects a fine mist of water/methanol into the intake tract under boost, high load, or upon NOS activation. With the kit’s cooler intake charge and anti-detonation qualities, one can safely run more boost and timing. Typical gains on 12psig boost applications on pump gas are 100hp if all the timing potential is realized. In the words of Steve Estrada at SuperFlow Dyno Corp.: “the BoostCooler® by Snow Performance showed more horsepower per dollar than anything we’ve ever tested”.

The kit comes with everything needed for installation, including a high pressure/high volume pump and specially designed nozzles to atomize the mixture completely. The kit can be used on 200-1500hp/ 5-30psig boost applications. Installation takes just 2-3 hours.

Snow Performance has been designing and manufacturing well engineered injection kits for over 2-years for many different types of vehicles with 100’s of hours of dyno and data sharing to ensure maximum performance.

Call 719-271-5644 for more information or visit www.snowperformance.net

Credit cards, Paypal, cashiers checks accepted

Superskwrl · 09-24-2003, 08:45 PM

Step up 2 the plate, and donate 1 to some1 @ the turbomustangs.com shootout so they can test it

Go to turbomustangs.com and contact the administrater

If it works i'll buy 1

msnow · 09-25-2003, 12:16 AM

Dear Superskwrl,
I understand the need for 3rd party endorsement/results. Better yet, you will be seeing a 3rd party installation/ dyno thrash in one of the major mustang mags soon. Results: on a 10psi vorteched '01, even after having an experienced tuner get every last HP out prior to installing the kit, The Boost Cooler® gained an easy 42 HP with a very conservative tune ( more timing could have been added as the detonation threshold wasn't even close). HP gains go up the more boost/ higher HP the application. I will look into this shoot out - it sounds like a great marketing tool.
Thanks,
Matt

syclonedave · 09-27-2003, 04:09 AM

So how long till you gotta refill? & it only works under boost? So you gotta put your foot in it for it to work.

I'd rather have something that you can feel all the time. & you don't have to worry about running empty.

19COBRA93 · 09-27-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by syclonedave
So how long till you gotta refill? & it only works under boost? So you gotta put your foot in it for it to work.

I'd rather have something that you can feel all the time. & you don't have to worry about running empty.

Are you for real?

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "feel all the time"... When under cruise you wanted what exactly? If you were to run nitrous, would you have it on (spraying) all the time? When just cruising down the freeway?

Water/Alchy cools the intake charge when under boost. When not under boost the motor is seeing near ambiant temp. Why would you want it injecting then? w/a injection doesn't add power just by putting it on, in fact you would most likely lose some (very little) power. You gain power because it allows you to run more boost and more timing.

For example, I was able to run 3 degrees more timing and 3 more lbs of boost after I installed my w/a injection. Did it make a difference? Hell yes it did. And that's not even my limit yet. I have only begun to experiment with it.

As far as fill...I have the same type of setup on my car. I usually top off my bottle once a week or less. That's not when it's empty, it's usually still 1/3 full. I drive my car hard everyday too. Water/achy mix is cheap. I happen across a 55 gal drum of alcohol which I mix with water before putting it in my car. So, it's nothing for me.

So, yes, you have to put your foot in it to work... Just like every other performance part, or power adder out there.

syclonedave · 09-27-2003, 06:36 PM

So u have it set to come on @ ? lbs of boost?

& so then there's no improvement till it comes on.

What's your alc/water mix % ?

I have a aquamist on my sy & I'm running about 80% alc/ 20 water, but with that mix when it comes on it's like turning off 2 cyls.

91lx by MORA · 09-27-2003, 08:33 PM

Spool time suffers a bit with turbos with the water/alky injection kits.

Anyway, you can do your own kit for less than $100..just make a search in google...

gaslight · 09-28-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by syclonedave

I have a aquamist on my sy & I'm running about 80% alc/ 20 water, but with that mix when it comes on it's like turning off 2 cyls. [/B]

that doesn't sound right. You shouldn't loose power when it comes on. It is there to cool the charge so you can run more boost and timing than you could without it. It should only come on when you are seeing boost.

syclonedave · 09-28-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gaslight
that doesn't sound right. You shouldn't loose power when it comes on. It is there to cool the charge so you can run more boost and timing than you could without it. It should only come on when you are seeing boost.

I agree. someone said i might have to much alch. in there.

It's set to come on at 10 psi.

gaslight · 09-28-2003, 07:18 PM

you shouldn't be loosing but gaining. maybe too much is being injected.

syclonedave · 09-28-2003, 07:59 PM

That's what it feels like, but the guy who sells the aquamists & knows them, said no way I was flooding it. He's the 1 that said I might have too much alch.

I'll just have to change the mix & try it.

msnow · 09-29-2003, 10:16 AM

My 2-cents:
Syclonedave: My 2- qt container on a 650HP/20psi/ 1000ml/min injection 50/50 methanol/water mix gets approx. (8) 1/4 mile runs. In every day spirited driving, that = approx 1-week. I also have an led that tells me when to add fluid ( $39.95 upgrade to the stage-1 reservoir).

Both systsems are boost activated.

Are you running 80/20 methanol or some other alcohol? Methanol is the stuff! It actually donates O2 when combusted as well as being the best antidetonant. 50/50 works great!

Your power loss indicates too much qty or a fast spooling turbo that is hitting full boost at a very low RPM before the engine is moving enough air or injecting at too low a pressure to atomize correctly or a weak primary/secondary ignition system or starting at too low an A/F ratio ( lower than 12:1).

I run as ahigh as 80/20 methanol water. I make sure my methanol isn't more than 1-month old - it loses it's high-end volutile components over time. My A/F ratio when injecting is 11:1. This equals a noticable "kick" when injection starts.

19Cobra93 - I think you are correct in your input.

2turboz · 09-30-2003, 09:50 AM

Ever try E85 for the alcohol source? It is a commercial ethanol 85%/gas 15% mix that is available in most populated areas as an alternate fuel. It supposedly has a very high octane rating and it is renewable-- reportedly works best in high compression (turbocharged?)engines. It is supposed to be around the same price as regular gas.

msnow · 09-30-2003, 10:47 AM

2turboz,
I've never tried it -I'm not sure how it would mix with water in the injection system. It looks like it's about the same price as methanol - $2/gal but isn't as good at cooling and as an antidetonant. As a stand alone fuel, you would have to really increase the qty as ethanol doesn't have the energy content of gasoline.
Thanks for the input,
Matt

syclonedave · 09-30-2003, 02:01 PM

I use isopropyl, as recomended by the man. & others who have the Aquamist. Reportedly other types will clog the pump.

msnow · 09-30-2003, 04:40 PM

You might check with the man. but I think the aquamist will work with methanol up to a 50/50 mixture. By not using it, you are just leaving free HP on the table.
Thanks,
Matt

SvtJosh · 10-01-2003, 02:27 AM

So isopropyl is not as good as methanol? Rats... I have all the isopropyl you could ask for. Where do you buy the methanol?

Is the kit worth while on an already and efficiently run intercooled car?

syclonedave · 10-01-2003, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by syclonedave
I use isopropyl, as recomended by the man. & others who have the Aquamist. Reportedly other types will clog the pump.

As I recall, anything other than iso. might gum-up the pump. ?

syclonedave · 10-01-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by msnow
You might check with the man. but I think the aquamist will work with methanol up to a 50/50 mixture. By not using it, you are just leaving free HP on the table.
Thanks,
Matt

how many more BTU's are in meth. compared to iso.?

syclonedave · 10-01-2003, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SvtJosh
So isopropyl is not as good as methanol? Rats... I have all the isopropyl you could ask for. Where do you buy the methanol?

Is the kit worth while on an already and efficiently run intercooled car?

From the standpoint that the cooler & less-prone the intake charge is to detonation, the more timing u can run = mo-power

2turboz · 10-01-2003, 09:57 AM

FWIW,

Methanol is much harder on synthetic and rubber surfaces/parts than the other alcohols- the molecule is quite a bit smaller than isopropanol or ethanol. Methanol is also very toxic, and therefore, more difficult to obtain (aka wood alcohol) than safer varieties. Ethanol is the alcohol in drinks- formed from grains and therefore a renewable fuel source. Isopropanol is the common rubbing alcohol, which normally already has some water mixed in (exception, anhydrous alcohols- mostly used for lab use, more expensive).

All alcohols add oxygen to the molecule, adding an oxygen atom is what defines an alcohols as opposed to the simple equavelent hydrocarbon molecule (like methane (CH4) vs methanol (CH3OH)- both 1 carbon molecules; ethanol has two carbons; isopropanol has 3). From all Ive heard, the alcohols all have high octane ratings, at least higher than gasoline, in the 120 range, so I'd have to question if any one is much better than others at controlling detonation. Most, if not all alcohols mix with water, and many form azeotropes, which makes them difficult to separate the water from, once mixed.

msnow · 10-01-2003, 10:37 AM

SVTjosh - we have seen 40HP more on 17 psi procharged/intercooled- 3-core- 5.0's with water/methanol injection.
Methanol is easily purchased wherever racing fuels are sold, on the web at hiperfuels.com, and is mixed 20-42% in windshieldwasher fluid( blue, says "contains methanol", -20°f).

Syclone dave - you are right on with the increased timing/boost with cooler intake charge. However, some of the increased detonation threshold is from the high octane/combustion cooling from the mixture in the combustion chamber. I'm not sure of the relative energy content but my understanding is that it's the cooling properties( latent heat of vaporization) and the octane enhancement( some say as high as 126octane for methanol) that are more important in this application.

syclonedave · 10-01-2003, 01:04 PM

So as it seems, the meth. may increase power over iso. , but I don't feel that it's worth a clogged pump for the increase.

SvtJosh · 10-02-2003, 02:53 AM

How much more is it worth?
Out of a hypothetical gain of 100hp is the Methanol worth, say 20 more hp over isopropyl?

A.Brown · 10-04-2003, 07:03 PM

Have any interest testing this on a Turbo 4.6L?

-Adam

msnow · 10-06-2003, 10:25 AM

I'm not sure of the actual difference. If you look at the #'s, ( latent heat of vaporization, Octane) I'd guess 10-15% more detonation control with the methanol.

2000 saleen - Are you utilizing a air-to-air intercooler with that turbo? air-to water? How much boost? what FWHP?
Thanks,
Matt

vegastang · 10-06-2003, 04:29 PM

methanol is the ticket. the octane of methanol is only about 100octane, but with the combustion chamber cooling effect, the overall effect can be as effective as running straight 105octane, while using standard pump gas.

go to turbobuick.com, there is an alcohol forum there with lots of info. and you can easily make your own $300 "kit" for about $150 at the following link.
http://home.att.net/~stevemon/AlcoholInjMod.html

except use a M10 or M15 nozzle from macmaster carr instead of the NOS nozzle. (search turbobuick.com)

Basically you need a $60 pump, a $3 nozzle, a $30hobbs switch, a relay, a $10 overflow tank from autozone, and some fuel line and wire. or you could pay twice as much for someone to put there own stickers on the SAME parts, put the parts in a box and mail it to you.

And the "100psi pump option" offered by some vendors is really just the same exact pump as the 60psi, easily rigged to flow a higher psi.

msnow · 10-06-2003, 07:40 PM

Vegastang - You are correct on the combustion cooling of methanol. The octane ( effect on detonation threshold) of methanol is actually higher than the usual published 105.
Since methanol chills intake air significantly, the CFR octane test on alcohols requires special test equipment to reheat intake air which nullifies methanol's charge-density advantages and produces octane ratings that are lower than those of alcohol running in a real situation where the cold intake charge would tend to lower peak combustion temps and reduce the propensity to knock. For this reason, methanol has been rated between 115-126 octane in real world situations. Ethanol is about 10 octane points lower.

Your input on do-it yourself kits while meant to inform warrants the following:

Do it your self kits are great for the engineering types amoung us and those that can afford to do it wrong and fix. The benefit of an engineered system like the Boost Cooler® is all the parts are designed to work together and you end-up with a tested/ robust system. Also, tuning knowlege/ help ads value to a system like the Boost Cooler®.

Our 200psi pump is not a rebadged 60 psi with a regulator. It is a larger capacity 2 gal/min @ 200psi and will actually do 220psi. You won't buy this pump anywhere near $60.

The correct way to do water/methanol injection is to inject a small qty at low boost and increase qty linearly as boost ( heat)increases which is accomplished with our variable controller. You simply will not get this improved driveability/power with a simple hobbs switch.

vegastang · 10-07-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msnow
Vegastang - You are correct on the combustion cooling of methanol. The octane ( effect on detonation threshold) of methanol is actually higher than the usual published 105.
Since methanol chills intake air significantly, the CFR octane test on alcohols requires special test equipment to reheat intake air which nullifies methanol's charge-density advantages and produces octane ratings that are lower than those of alcohol running in a real situation where the cold intake charge would tend to lower peak combustion temps and reduce the propensity to knock. For this reason, methanol has been rated between 115-126 octane in real world situations. Ethanol is about 10 octane points lower.

Your input on do-it yourself kits while meant to inform warrants the following:

Do it your self kits are great for the engineering types amoung us and those that can afford to do it wrong and fix. The benefit of an engineered system like the Boost Cooler® is all the parts are designed to work together and you end-up with a tested/ robust system. Also, tuning knowlege/ help ads value to a system like the Boost Cooler®.

Our 200psi pump is not a rebadged 60 psi with a regulator. It is a larger capacity 2 gal/min @ 200psi and will actually do 220psi. You won't buy this pump anywhere near $60.

The correct way to do water/methanol injection is to inject a small qty at low boost and increase qty linearly as boost ( heat)increases which is accomplished with our variable controller. You simply will not get this improved driveability/power with a simple hobbs switch.

Thats your opinion, my opinion is that if someone doesn't have the knowledge to put the few necessary parts together for such a basic alcohol system, they really have absolutly no business spraying methanol in the first place, as it is a completly different aspect of tuning and maintaining, both of which require direct knowledge, not a phonecall to someone who does. Of course I'm speaking of your $300kit, which is a direct ripoff of the DIY turbobuick kits which is $150 in parts that are very easily attainable, you just have the foresight to charge an extra $150 to put them in a box together and mail it. The end user still has to install the whole system the same way, so I really don't see what you've "engineered" except an easy way to make money.

And nobody here needs anything close to a 200psi pump, which I've never seen in your site or ads, so I don't even know what you are talking about. I was speaking of your 100psi pump which is the same pump as the 60psi pump, just modded to flow a higher psi.

And the *correct* way to inject methanol on a turbo car such as a mustang that sees full boost as early as 2500rpm, would be in line with the MAF transfer and fuel flow. Injecting it as a function of boost means that the same volume of methanol is bieng injected from full boost at 2500rpm to 6000rpm on a car such as mine, which is far from optimal. It needs to increase in line with air and fuel flow. Regardless your $300 kit does in fact use a hobbs switch, as do countless 10 and 11 second turbobuicks, so this is irrelevent.

What you're doing is fine, but I feel that if you want to advertise it here in a DIY atmosphere, expect someone such as myself to point out the obvious.

91lx by MORA · 10-07-2003, 09:52 PM

exactly.

garyhigh · 10-13-2003, 04:24 PM

A Hobbs switch on a turbocharged application works just fine. Now it looks like the Vortech/Procharger guys want in on the action. Since they build boost so much slower than turbos, the progressive meth delivery should provide a smooth power increase throughout the RPMs. At the blistering rate a turbo spools, that would be hard to control in a progressive manner.

I had a SMC Enterprise kit on my GN and loved it. 25 psi on 93 octane and 26 degrees timing

msnow · 10-14-2003, 10:38 AM

Garyhigh - Just to trow it out there, we are working on a controller for fast spooling turbos and positive displacement blowers that adjusts qty as a function of mass air flow which should make for smooth power gains at lower RPM.
Thanks,
Matt

A.Brown · 10-18-2003, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by msnow
2000 saleen - Are you utilizing a air-to-air intercooler with that turbo? air-to water? How much boost? what FWHP?
Thanks,
Matt

Hey Matt, sorry about the delayed reply. I have an A/A front mount sheetmetal intercooler. With 30lbs of boost from a 76mm on a friend's Cobra the intake temps were only 35* above ambient so i'd say its extremely efficient. I am planning on tuning at a conservative 10lbs, 18lbs, and a very aggressive 26lb tune with some race gas in. We're expecting somewhere around 500-525rwhp on 10-12lbs and the sky is the limit when we crank the boost. If you are interested in working out something with me, shoot me an email: adam@turbolocity.biz

We are tuning the car in about 2 weeks so this would be the time to act upon this. Let me know, i am interested. Thanks!

-Adam

ken01GTvert · 06-28-2004, 05:47 PM

FYI...I've setup a group purchase for the boost cooler kit on corral.net at http://www.corral.net/forums/showthr...hreadid=514761

Blown284 · 07-05-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by msnow
Snow Performance Boost Cooler® adds 60HP through water methanol injection
New BoostCooler® with improved activation that varies the quantity injected with boost for better mid-range power and improved chemical intercooling.

Snow Performance has developed a new Stage-2 BoostCooler® water/methanol injection system that uses a new Variable Controller that varies the quantity injected with boost. Because the correct amount is injected at all RPM/boost levels, power and drivability is much improved over the typical on-off systems. The Variable Controller features adjustments for onset boost level and full quantity boost level so the injection curve can be maximized for each application and can be mounted under hood or on the dash for adjustments while driving.

Other Stage-2 features include a 200psi pump for even better cooling/atomization, and a level switch to indicate when to add fluid. Retail price on the new system is $399

Designed as a chemical intercooler for supercharged/turbocharged applications for increased air density, timing, and power, the BoostCooler® can also be used in naturally aspirated and nitrous applications to greatly reduce detonation. The system injects a fine mist of water/methanol into the intake tract under boost, high load, or upon NOS activation. With the kit’s cooler intake charge and anti-detonation qualities, one can safely run more boost and timing. Typical gains on 12psig boost applications on pump gas are 100hp if all the timing potential is realized. In the words of Steve Estrada at SuperFlow Dyno Corp.: “the BoostCooler® by Snow Performance showed more horsepower per dollar than anything we’ve ever tested”.

The kit comes with everything needed for installation, including a high pressure/high volume pump and specially designed nozzles to atomize the mixture completely. The kit can be used on 200-1500hp/ 5-30psig boost applications. Installation takes just 2-3 hours.

Snow Performance has been designing and manufacturing well engineered injection kits for over 2-years for many different types of vehicles with 100’s of hours of dyno and data sharing to ensure maximum performance.

Call 719-271-5644 for more information or visit www.snowperformance.net

Credit cards, Paypal, cashiers checks accepted

Matt,
I tried signing up for your website so I could ask you a few questions, however, I never got a confirmation email or nuttin. Wassup with that? LOL.... By the way, can you answer my question real quick for me please? For those of us that are running the IAT on the discharge side, where is the "suggested" spray from the alky/water location (i.e. before/after the IAT)?

Thanks,
Tim