LS1 or 351w????

[goatnipples2002]

I like MUSTANGS, but Ford had their heads up their asses when they made the 5.0 and 5.8.

A motor is a motor is a motor is a motor. It's just an air pump. I could careless who made it or what it came in. If it gets down it gets down.

Does ford make an aluminium, V8 pushrod motor with race like heads? HELL NO. Not even Dart, Boss or the A blocks are aluminium.

LSX -
Pros: Less weight, oem "race" heads, 6.0l, strong block.
Cons: WAY harder install, expensive install parts, expensive performance parts.

351W -
Pros - Easy as hell to install, 5.0 parts fit, cheap performance parts, 393w is easy, strong block.
Cons - Weight and needs heads to perfom well.

I would do a 393 for simplicity, but if I had the time and $$$ I would do the LSX swap.

[1trickponie]

see ya

[MurPHy4570]

Originally Posted by goatnipples2002

I like MUSTANGS, but Ford had their heads up their asses when they made the 5.0 and 5.8.

A motor is a motor is a motor is a motor. It's just an air pump. I could careless who made it or what it came in. If it gets down it gets down.

Does ford make an aluminium, V8 pushrod motor with race like heads? HELL NO. Not even Dart, Boss or the A blocks are aluminium.

LSX -
Pros: Less weight, oem "race" heads, 6.0l, strong block.
Cons: WAY harder install, expensive install parts, expensive performance parts.

351W -
Pros - Easy as hell to install, 5.0 parts fit, cheap performance parts, 393w is easy, strong block.
Cons - Weight and needs heads to perfom well.

I would do a 393 for simplicity, but if I had the time and $$$ I would do the LSX swap.

You do realize you're comparing apples to oranges, right? the 90 degree smallblock family of engines (221, 260, 289, 302, 351W) was designed around 1960. Nineteen Sixty. Introduced in 1962.

The GM engine family you're comparing it to was designed in the mid 1990's, introduced in 1998-99, if I remember correctly. Nineteen ninety nine.

So basically, what you are saying is, Ford should have been smart enough to design an engine to compete with a competitor's engine THIRTY FIVE years later, or more. Hey, lend me that crystal ball of yours, I could use it to make money on the stock market.

This bull#### is like me dogging on the old Model A or Model B I-4 Ford engine cause the GM 265 OHV V8 from 1955 is better. SAME CRAP.


That dog don't hunt, son. Try again.

[93sleeper]

Yea you cant compare the 2 I dont care what aspects you're looking at. I would personally, have a 302/351 over an LS-anything any day of the week. Period. My good friend has an 02 Camaro ss with a t56 and ls1 slp long tubes, ram air etc. and you couldnt GIVE me that car I swear to god if it was mine i'd either set it on fire or sell it dirt cheap. They are WAY to hard to work on, allll the parts for any part of the motor are rediculously OVER PRICED!, and like said a hundred times....its a CHEVROLET!!! What are u thinking?? Please I'll help pay to get a 351 in there if you promise you wont go LS on us haha I wouldnt piss on that ls1 if it was on fire in my living room.

[slow87GT]

LS1 hands down

[gray86hatch]

My rotaing assembly for the lsx is $1800 Most fords are $1600 or so.
The cam is $500 vs $325
Heads and block are stock. 6 bolt mains ford ant got that for less than $2k and it is alum so $4k for a ford I paid $1000 for a long block. Sold off the stuff I am not using to get some back.

the arp main and head bolts are about double but there are twice as many. LOL

Valve springs and things like that cost the same.

Headers that fit for $550 Kooks cost more than that and don't fit.

balancer was $120 flex $130

Intake was $410 with rails shipped I had way more than that into my super vic to get it bolted on the car.

I really don't see the big cost differences.

F body cars are stupid to work on unless you cut the cowl back.

Tim

[whipplesnake]

Originally Posted by MurPHy4570

You do realize you're comparing apples to oranges, right? the 90 degree smallblock family of engines (221, 260, 289, 302, 351W) was designed around 1960. Nineteen Sixty. Introduced in 1962.

The GM engine family you're comparing it to was designed in the mid 1990's, introduced in 1998-99, if I remember correctly. Nineteen ninety nine.

So basically, what you are saying is, Ford should have been smart enough to design an engine to compete with a competitor's engine THIRTY FIVE years later, or more. Hey, lend me that crystal ball of yours, I could use it to make money on the stock market.

This bull#### is like me dogging on the old Model A or Model B I-4 Ford engine cause the GM 265 OHV V8 from 1955 is better. SAME CRAP.


That dog don't hunt, son. Try again.

The ford motors are good, but you make good points as to why the lsx motors are better.

[spydermandb]

Originally Posted by goatnipples2002

I like MUSTANGS, but Ford had their heads up their asses when they made the 5.0 and 5.8.

A motor is a motor is a motor is a motor. It's just an air pump. I could careless who made it or what it came in. If it gets down it gets down.

Does ford make an aluminium, V8 pushrod motor with race like heads? HELL NO. Not even Dart, Boss or the A blocks are aluminium.

LSX -
Pros: Less weight, oem "race" heads, 6.0l, strong block.
Cons: WAY harder install, expensive install parts, expensive performance parts.

351W -
Pros - Easy as hell to install, 5.0 parts fit, cheap performance parts, 393w is easy, strong block.
Cons - Weight and needs heads to perfom well.

I would do a 393 for simplicity, but if I had the time and $$$ I would do the LSX swap.

Are you serious? Comparing a ford 1960 engine to GM's late 1990's/early 2000 line up of engines???

Also why are you freaking out about the difference in weight of the block?

If you want to compare longblocks, compare Fords 5.4 gt500 longblock VS Chevy's LS lineup all you want. Both great engines, pick your poison.

As to your original question, build whatever the F you want. You already seem to grasp the challenges each present, why even post this?

[414_stang]

"I wouldnt piss on that ls1 if it was on fire in my living room."

RIGHT ON.


LSx in a Ford makes me wanna. 351w, terminator, 460.

[UJUSTLOST]

LS without a doubt. Who cares if you are putting a Chevy engine in a Ford. Brand loyalty is nothing but ####. The LS will make more power and stay together longer then the 351W. It is a no brainer.

[fstrthnu373]

The LS will make more power and stay together longer then the 351W. It is a no brainer.[/QUOTE]

you cant be serious, it makes good power but nothing a 351w cant top and try taking a stock rod ls motor and run low 9s seen this done many times with a windsor

[rod442]

Originally Posted by MurPHy4570

You do realize you're comparing apples to oranges, right? the 90 degree smallblock family of engines (221, 260, 289, 302, 351W) was designed around 1960. Nineteen Sixty. Introduced in 1962.

The GM engine family you're comparing it to was designed in the mid 1990's, introduced in 1998-99, if I remember correctly. Nineteen ninety nine.

So basically, what you are saying is, Ford should have been smart enough to design an engine to compete with a competitor's engine THIRTY FIVE years later, or more. Hey, lend me that crystal ball of yours, I could use it to make money on the stock market.

This bull#### is like me dogging on the old Model A or Model B I-4 Ford engine cause the GM 265 OHV V8 from 1955 is better. SAME CRAP.


That dog don't hunt, son. Try again.

I agree 1000%. and Im in the lsx camp, sort of. lol.

cant compare the 2 engine generations.

If you look back to what GM had at the time our Foxbody cars were out, GM did keep up fairly well in the power dept. And to some debate, did win a couple of battle's here and there. They had a 165hp motor in 82, 190hp in 83, 215hp in 85, and the 225hp 5.7 in 87, on up to the 235 5.0 in 91-92. The 350 couldn't be had with a manual, and the cars were a bit heavier.

It took untill the short lived Lt1 family with alum heads for the gm's to make a decent power jump (265-300). and it can be argued that a sbf with alum heads will outrun an lt1 any day of the week. the real jump came in 97 with the clean slate design of the Ls1.

And murph, the 1st ls1's were in 97. Not that it matters much.

Now for is making a real strong show with the 5.0 coming back. we have yet to see what the power potential of that motor is capeable of. The heads are probably great, block most likely too. The slight part that I'd worry about is for anyone who wants a power adder is the 11.0:1 compression. But with a low boost setup, 500-550 hp wont be bad.

If I had to rebuild the motor in my stang again, I might consider putting my spare ls1 in it. The z06 cam, 317 truck heads I already have, forged pistons and cheap callies rods with a stock crank, and a t76.

Oh yeah, and the European "pyramid rings" you can read about here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced...lbs-today.html

For the short read:

I dynoed my 6.0 in a superflow sf-902 engine dyno today.

6.0
9.8cr
E85
S480 1.32/ar turbo

And it made 1170hp/1180ft/lbs at 30-20 psi (dropping on high rpm to loose wastegate springs). And to small intercooler (194 intake temp).

[hotrodder]

Here, You freakin' narrow minded purists kill me......

http://www.hotrodhomepage.com/hrhp/2...owered-camaro/

[goatnipples2002]

They should have created motors in the 90s that compared to the LT1 and LSX. I mean look at SBFs of the late 90s....#### heads and heavy blocks. I am not comparing a motor of the 60s to another of the 90s...I like how you read what isn't said. Where in my post did I specify years? Compare a 90s SBF pushrod to a 90s LSX! Ford has been the underdog for a while. I don't like Camaros their engine bay is ####ty and so is the 96+ Stangs.

So you wanna compare the GT500 motor to the ZR1 motor?

[UJUSTLOST]

Originally Posted by fstrthnu373

you cant be serious, it makes good power but nothing a 351w cant top and try taking a stock rod ls motor and run low 9s seen this done many times with a windsor

You need to do a little more reading. I can think of one coupe off the top of my head that runs mid to low 9s with a completely stock LS bottom end. The only changes he made was to file fit the rings and install ARP rod bolts. He uses stock crank, rods, and pistons. Plus its running on pump gas with meth injection. Oh yeah, and its not even the big 6.0, this guy is using the 5.3 LS.

So as I said before, the LS hands down is a better combo. It will out live and out perform a 351w base.

[fstrthnu373]

i dont know why I argue this case all the time I really dont give a sh#t. Small blocks make good power but if I could go back I would have never built my 423 windsor svo block afr 225 itll make around 700hp but for about the same money I could have built a 598 bbf with a 460 heads and made around 1000. Me personally am done with small blocks. I went the stock internals route before and it went fast but was always in the back of my mind it was stock stuff and could give up the ghost at any time, thats why I built a solid motor this time but wish it would have been a bbf.

[MFE]

Tech? Where? I don't see any tech.

[lt1fanatic]

Originally Posted by 93sleeper

Yea you cant compare the 2 I dont care what aspects you're looking at. I would personally, have a 302/351 over an LS-anything any day of the week. Period. My good friend has an 02 Camaro ss with a t56 and ls1 slp long tubes, ram air etc. and you couldnt GIVE me that car I swear to god if it was mine i'd either set it on fire or sell it dirt cheap. They are WAY to hard to work on, allll the parts for any part of the motor are rediculously OVER PRICED!, and like said a hundred times....its a CHEVROLET!!! What are u thinking?? Please I'll help pay to get a 351 in there if you promise you wont go LS on us haha I wouldnt piss on that ls1 if it was on fire in my living room.

of course not....

you cant compare an all aluminum motor to iron. the 2 metals are the exact same thing.

BRAAAAAVO, glad you pointed this out for everyone

[Ed Curtis]

Originally Posted by MFE

Tech? Where? I don't see any tech.

You're no fun anymore.

[Mus408]

If it's for the street,I'd keep the 351W/stroker setup. You can make 500 HP,with either the Ford or the Chevy. Ford in the Ford will bring you better money,when you try to sell it.
If this is a serious race car, then anything goes!
500HP in a light Mustang is going to be more than you can use on the street,with real street tires, anyhow. Don't see any advantage on the street for a LSX powered Mustang, over the Ford powered.

[jeep cammed cherokee]

Cleveland.

[ltdrifter]

Meh, they are both boat anchors, get a Hemi.

[SATURN5]

Do whatever you want...

Both can and do go fast...

Ed's rocks the LS, Novi rocks a stroked 351W. Both cars are works of art, no matter who's engine is under the hood.

[88lx357]

Originally Posted by goatnipples2002

So you wanna compare the GT500 motor to the ZR1 motor?

The fastest ZR1 might run a high 9, the fastest GT500 goes in the 7s

[sohcv8gt]

Gee... didn't see this comin... BTW...what cam is best for a stock 5.0 motor?


M@

[Mus408]

Why,everyone knows, it's a Chevy cam!!

[sohcv8gt]

Originally Posted by Mus408

Why,everyone knows, it's a Chevy cam!!

That'd be interesting with the dizzy on the wrong end of the block...

M@

[csgoody]

Swap a late model hemi instead.I wanna hear new arguments.

[WhiteLX]

Originally Posted by sohcv8gt

Gee... didn't see this comin... BTW...what cam is best for a stock 5.0 motor?


M@

B303!

Personally, I couldn't bring myself to put an LSx engine into my Mustang. I'll be doing a 351w based stroker for my next engine since the 302 is getting up there in mileage.

Now for my XR4Ti I'd have no issues dropping an LSx into it, since it's a bastard car anyway. It very well may be the future for that car since it can make more power than the 2.3 turbo, stay smog legal (with a trip through the ref) and it's a fair amount lighter than the 2.3 turbo.

[SATURN5]

Hey now.... Knocking the 2.3 is fight'in words....

[WhiteLX]

Originally Posted by SATURN5

Hey now.... Knocking the 2.3 is fight'in words....

not my fault that Ford decided to hide lead weights somewhere in that engine.

The 2.3 turbo is a decent engine, I just wish I had the money, fab skills and space to do so to make the engine as powerful as it could be and have the drivability I want. In due time I guess...

I'd say mine is a turbo, intercooler, and some tuning away from 350-400rwhp. I have a Hy35 and a decent spearco intercooler just waiting to go one one of these days.

[joedgvnn94gt]

Originally Posted by csgoody

Swap a late model hemi instead.I wanna hear new arguments.

hahaa ....ha, today i was talkin to my neighbor he's in the prosess of building a B1 headed 400 block( not a hemi, but) mopar motor, hes goin n/a and....i almost #### myself when he was throwin out these astrinomical numbers for parts. 3000$ for the just the crank, and about 10,000+ $ for the rotating ass. givin that its a serious 950 horspower motor, i aint got 30,000+ + grand for motor and trans that would hold up to go 9.20( givin that thats wicked fast, but for a #### tone a cash though). sooo in conclusion i would go with a LS based motor. I got proved my self- 6.0 straight outof a damn escalade, ported l92 head flowin 300 + cfm on the intake, front mount dizzy, super vic intake, single 950 pro system carb with a plate, with 373 gear, th400, 3500 stall and c-16 on the stand alone with the spray goes low 9's and drives it about an hour to the track on 93 pump gas and street tires..... soooo you be the judge, imho i would swap my 5.0 for s STOCK 6.0 anyday.

[SATURN5]

Originally Posted by WhiteLX

not my fault that Ford decided to hide lead weights somewhere in that engine.

The 2.3 turbo is a decent engine, I just wish I had the money, fab skills and space to do so to make the engine as powerful as it could be and have the drivability I want. In due time I guess...

I'd say mine is a turbo, intercooler, and some tuning away from 350-400rwhp. I have a Hy35 and a decent spearco intercooler just waiting to go one one of these days.

and cam, head work and fuel... E-85 seems to be the ticket for that level of power..

I need to finish my fuel system first.. (sumped tank, A1000 pump)

The HY35 can do it once everything else is brought up to match.

[WhiteLX]

Originally Posted by SATURN5

and cam, head work and fuel... E-85 seems to be the ticket for that level of power..

I need to finish my fuel system first.. (sumped tank, A1000 pump)

The HY35 can do it once everything else is brought up to match.

It has an old Erson turbo grind slider cam. Seems to be working fairly well. Would have liked one of Bo's cams, but with all the work he was doing on the head, I just couldn't afford it at the time. The head is a Bo-Port ported big valve level 2 oval port head. E6 has been ported along with the lower intake and a gutted upper. It has crower rods and wiseco pistons in it.

We have a couple e85 stations around here, but not enough to run on it all the time. If I wanted to venture out on a 1 hour drive I'd be screwed. If I needed additional octane, I'd go with water/meth injection.

I have a walbro gss392 installed and currently running 55lb injectors, but I have a set of 72s sitting on the shelf.

[SATURN5]

Oh..... Now that's really in the right direction... Bo's stuff is the shiznit.

I've already popped my 72's to 105%...