98 gt, 5.4 swap build thread

[Mr.351w]

sup guys, im new to the forum so i figgured id go ahead and post up a build thread. I broke a rod in the trusty NPI about a month ago about a week after i completed my 5 speed swap so id figured id throw a SOHC PI 5.4 in it to be different.

All that is done now is i have the motor out and iv been kind iffy on how i want to do it. Heres a few questions for you knowledgeable fellows...

1. should start with a NPI short block and put the Pi heads for the higher comppression?
2. id like too tune it myself so can someone recommend a good tuner?
3. Team Z tubular k member or QA-1 ? i dont have the money for a MM unit or i would
4. and whats the easiest way to tackle the exhaust?

[BlackSunshine02]

Originally Posted by Mr.351w

sup guys, im new to the forum so i figgured id go ahead and post up a build thread. I broke a rod in the trust NPI about a month ago about a week after i completed my 5 speed swap so id figured id throw a SOHC PI 5.4 in it to be different.

All that is done now is i have the motor out and iv been kind iffy on how i want to do it. Heres a few questions for you knowledgeable fellows...

1. should start with a NPI short block and put the Pi heads for the higher comppression?
2. id like too tune it myself so can someone recommend a good tuner?
3. Team Z tubular k member or QA-1 ? i dont have the money for a MM unit or i would
4. and whats the easiest way to tackle the exhaust?

I would do PI heads and cams if you could try to find a PI engine.
The tuner It all depends on where you live.
I would go with a team Z, UPR, Grantelli......But you don't need one for the swap.
Install FRPP,BBK or UPR shorty headers and have a shop stretch the X or h pipe for the added with of the motor.
Later on you could add a Hardball'r 5.4 intake.

[Floordford]

Wouldnt it be best to do Hardball'r intake first and then do cams down the road? I mean it'd be sweet to hit those two birds at once. My thought is, whats the use of a good cam if your intake sux, the injector timing is wacked out from the spacers and the fuel is being sprayed at the floor instead of the valve.

[Mr.351w]

I actually plan on buying the hardballer intake before i buy the motor. I reall dont think you read the post very throughly blacksunshine. By tuner i meant i wanted a remendation on a good self tuner. I plan on doing this all im my shop so taking it to an exhaust shop is out of the question.

[BlackSunshine02]

Originally Posted by Mr.351w

I actually plan on buying the hardballer intake before i buy the motor. I reall dont think you read the post very throughly blacksunshine. By tuner i meant i wanted a remendation on a good self tuner. I plan on doing this all im my shop so taking it to an exhaust shop is out of the question.

Sorry about missing that! But the hardball'r intake is very important. Fastboi is right!
The hand held tuner is up to you what shops in your area use. I have used Diablo and never had a problem. Use what your tuner uses.

[jscott1176]

There are quite a few 5.4 swap threads now, it's been done by a lot of us now. Read thru all you can before you start that way there are no surprises. I use the TwEECer as a DIY tuner, its learning curve is a bit steep, but it allows you to make all the necessary changes.

Here's the Cliff's notes on the swap:
HPS hardball'r intake for sure, adapter plates will make it work, just not all that great. It's also a good idea to upgrade the TB & elbow.
At least 24# injectors, the 19's are not up to the task.
If you go with a set of cams, you will want something with decent duration to feed the long stroke.
Off the shelf exhaust: shorties are the only thing that will fit. FRPP is the only game in town, the BBK's do not fit. If you want LT's you will need to have them made.
Dont use either of those K-members you listed. They are junk. Save the $$ and get the MM. You dont need to swap it to fit the 5.4.

[Floordford]

I know ill be going to 24# injectors but just for arguements sake dont the trucks that have a 2V 5.4 come stock with 19#? Im pretty sure they do. So then is it just the fact that we are thinking performance wise and the 19# get to full duty sooner?

BTW, nice cliff notes. :-D

[jscott1176]

On the truck, yes 19# injectors are used. But you have to remember it is rev limited to 5200 RPM. When you add in the HPS intake it shifts the power band up quite a bit (especially compared with the stock truck intake). I was seeing the 19#ers go static above 4500 RPM and my AFR's were reaching 14:1 at WOT near redline, where I have set at 5800. That is just way too lean for a system with catalytic converters, and you never want to have the injectors running static like that. When I switched to the 24's my injector duty cycle never goes abov 85% and I keep a steady 12.8:1 all the way to redline. If I were to switch to a set of ported heads or the new TFS heads, I would definately go up to a set of 30's.

[Mr.351w]

Originally Posted by jscott1176

Off the shelf exhaust: shorties are the only thing that will fit. FRPP is the only game in town, the BBK's do not fit. If you want LT's you will need to have them made.

so if i get the frpp shortys i wont have to make any modifications to the midpipe?

[BlackSunshine02]

Originally Posted by Mr.351w

so if i get the frpp shortys i wont have to make any modifications to the midpipe?

No the mid pipe still has to be widened the 5.4 is a wider motor then the 4.6

[BlackSunshine02]

Originally Posted by jscott1176

There are quite a few 5.4 swap threads now, it's been done by a lot of us now. Read thru all you can before you start that way there are no surprises. I use the TwEECer as a DIY tuner, its learning curve is a bit steep, but it allows you to make all the necessary changes.

Here's the Cliff's notes on the swap:
HPS hardball'r intake for sure, adapter plates will make it work, just not all that great. It's also a good idea to upgrade the TB & elbow.
At least 24# injectors, the 19's are not up to the task.
If you go with a set of cams, you will want something with decent duration to feed the long stroke.
Off the shelf exhaust: shorties are the only thing that will fit. FRPP is the only game in town, the BBK's do not fit. If you want LT's you will need to have them made.
Dont use either of those K-members you listed. They are junk. Save the $$ and get the MM. You dont need to swap it to fit the 5.4.

one ? for you will a cobra oil pump work on the 5.4? I want higher volume then stock or should I go with a MMR oil pump?

[jscott1176]

Yes, same oil pump... just get the FRPP high-volume pump, it's like $50

[SONICBLUE4.6]

Sorry to Hi-jack but I have the Bassani 3 peace X-pipe.. Do I have to do some crazy welding to it or can it just be bent wide enought to fit???

[johnr2001gt]

Originally Posted by Mr.351w

so if i get the frpp shortys i wont have to make any modifications to the midpipe?

it will work just have to stretch it open a little. atleast thats what we did. its a tight fit around the heater core and stuff.

honestly 4.6 2v to 5.42v I dont think is worth the hassle. but thats just me.

[Floordford]

I wonder then if the X or H pipe then has enough room to be tucked up higher with no issue. I keep hearing that it has to be widened but no one says it needs to have down length added.

[jscott1176]

That is how I made it "wider" was to add length to one of the angled pipes coming off the forward side of the X. Each pipe will fit differently. You will need to test fit and assess where the cuts go and how much length to add.

[windsordeath]

You've witnessed a Team-Z or QA-1 take a dump?
Better yet,
Link me to this thread where you read about it.....Not that I'm a fan of these K-members...I just hate misinformation even worse...

[r3dn3ck]

use the NPI bottom end and pick a cam that has plenty of duration (I'd recommend calling up hi-tech or cushman).

MM k-members are the only one I like. I've seen GMS that were broken at the welds, I'd seen even a Griggs break the motor mount stands off. UPR seems like a drag race piece to me anyway but they have a good reputation for reliability and I don't want to say anything bad about them other than they appear to be copies of other peoples designs which is sorta chicken####. I've never heard of a busted MM k-member. I only use MM sourced suspension parts.

With stock exhaust manifolds and h-pipe you'll usually need to add 2" to the passenger side down pipe on the h-pipe, grind of a little casting nub on the passenger side manifold, and cut the crossover on the h and spread it about 1" (measure 3, cut 1). The bassani X pipe I used to use was easy enough to just grab holt of the pipes and manhandle them apart enough that they'd fit after the 2" was added to the down pipe. You may or may not need to add any tube to the driver side down pipe. I didn't.

Makes for one helluva fun car. I've already sold my HPS intake and moved on to installing a lightning blower and a modest nitrous hit (built engine so not so unsafe).

[streetkred]

Sorry for thread hi jack
Props to r3dn3ck and the others for posting this valuble info

I have two 5.4's im working on right now,

1st is going to have forged flat tops, rods ported heads, cams, the HPS intake and a 200 shot

I have one another one I paid for that im picking up today thats running (thats the good thing about houston if you look hard enough you can find a running one for under 400 bucks)

My questions are:

What would a tuned and Bolton 5.4 2v run at track with a 5 speed?

Also is anyone here running a 5.4 2v with 4.10 or 4.30 gears?

[Floordford]

Originally Posted by jscott1176

That is how I made it "wider" was to add length to one of the angled pipes coming off the forward side of the X. Each pipe will fit differently. You will need to test fit and assess where the cuts go and how much length to add.

Yeah i have a Pypes 2 piece style X-pipe that i will be using. Ill be doing this in my driveway so it'll be interestign to see how i cut and mend with no welder. As i have less than zero welding skills.

[stoffer]

you guys need to consider using 5.4 specific pistons as the stockers have a lot of sideload due to the stroke


I ran 24# injectors on my 5.4 and gained some low end torque over the 19#ers

[Mr.351w]

Originally Posted by windsordeath

You've witnessed a Team-Z or QA-1 take a dump?
Better yet,
Link me to this thread where you read about it.....Not that I'm a fan of these K-members...I just hate misinformation even worse...

id also like to see this...

[Floordford]

Originally Posted by stoffer

you guys need to consider using 5.4 specific pistons as the stockers have a lot of sideload due to the stroke


I ran 24# injectors on my 5.4 and gained some low end torque over the 19#ers

Did you run Ford injectors or a better brand. I was thinking of running something different as stockers are really just base line equipment. Ive done a small amount of research on injector spray paterns but what i do know is that stock stuff stinks.

[Mr.351w]

Originally Posted by Fastangboi

Did you run Ford injectors or a better brand. I was thinking of running something different as stockers are really just base line equipment. Ive done a small amount of research on injector spray paterns but what i do know is that stock stuff stinks.

iv never had a problem with stock injectors, whats your issue with them?

[Floordford]

Ive never had an issue but i know there is a bit more performance and efficiency to be had in the injector area. Id like to go over to EV6 style or to an injector that can fan the spray out a bit instead of squirting.

[Slither]

Do a search for my post on 5.4's a few weeks back. Shoudl answer all your questions.

[r3dn3ck]

Pro-tip: get more injector than your power level calls for. A few of us went with 19's and 21's and even 24's because we weren't making huge HP numbers and found them either going static or sitting above 90% at WOT. I had to put in 30's for NA running to keep the duty cycle below 80%. Now with the blower and nitrous I'll be having to slap in some 42's or possibly even larger.

[Floordford]

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

Pro-tip: get more injector than your power level calls for. A few of us went with 19's and 21's and even 24's because we weren't making huge HP numbers and found them either going static or sitting above 90% at WOT. I had to put in 30's for NA running to keep the duty cycle below 80%. Now with the blower and nitrous I'll be having to slap in some 42's or possibly even larger.

That makes sense.

[Mr.351w]

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

Pro-tip: get more injector than your power level calls for. A few of us went with 19's and 21's and even 24's because we weren't making huge HP numbers and found them either going static or sitting above 90% at WOT. I had to put in 30's for NA running to keep the duty cycle below 80%. Now with the blower and nitrous I'll be having to slap in some 42's or possibly even larger.

i think 24s will be just fine.

[Mr.351w]

Picking my 5.4 up wedsenday, anybody got some intake spacers they want to get rid of?

[seawalkersee]

Spacers suck. Get the intake because the spacers cost too much power. Reason being is that the injector flow path is compromised and does not spray in the correct location.

SWS

[outlaw77]

Originally Posted by Mr.351w

Picking my 5.4 up wedsenday, anybody got some intake spacers they want to get rid of?

I got it all 30injectors and and spacers and t45 if you want it. I am in west palm bch.

[Mr.351w]

bent rod








Just waitin on my rod to come in AND SOMEBODY WITH SOME INTAKE SPACERS OR INTAKE that their willing to part with.

[r3dn3ck]

cross posted your need to my giant thread on mustangboards.com. I'm pretty sure one of the boys will have a HPS intake or a set of plates at minimum to get you off the ground.

Man you're gunna freak. It's so much more fun to drive with a 5.4 in it.

[Mr.351w]

Awesome thanks for the advise R3dn3ck.

Thats what i was really going for was a funner car on the cheap.