How to check a T-5 while it is out of the car?

NOS302Stang · 11-05-2009, 08:58 PM

I will be going to a swap meet this weekend and looking for a t-5 amoung other things. What can I check to make sure it is in good shape?

Thewhite88pony · 11-05-2009, 08:59 PM

take the top lids off and turn the input shaft

look at the cluster gear and main input shaft, should be easy to find any damage if you know what a worn/bad gear is.

MdntRanger50 · 11-06-2009, 01:41 AM

If you cant take the top off and look inside as whitepony suggested then bring an old stock T5 shifter with you and a couple bolts. Bolt shifter on and first turn the input in neutral listen/feel check end play, a lot of end play slop is not good. Then shift it in each gear and turn input shaft and listen/feel, make sure output shaft turns in every gear as well. Also bring something to take the fill plug out and stick you nose up to the hole and smell for burnt fluid. About all you can do without taking it apart for an inspection.

Ryno8705 · 11-07-2009, 01:37 AM

If you pull the top off, take a look at the magnet in the bottom. Depending on the miles, it will probably have metal "dust" covering it, which is normal. However, any chucks or strips of metal (like metal from a drill bit) means it's about to come apart. That's given it has not been apart before and put back together by a bum.

Kato Engineering · 11-07-2009, 02:11 AM

the normal place that there are wear issues in the front of the mainshaft where it goes inside the input shaft.
a lot of times the distressed area surface is from worn roller bearings that will make shifting into 2nd gear difficult and also allows the input shaft splines to wear into the inside diameter of the front bearing retainer TUBE area where the release ( throwout) bearing runs on top / over ....

dont forget that there are a NUMBER of gear ratios available and the most common is the JUNK / WEAKEST units out of the 4 banger and 6 cylinder cars...that are at every swap meet in the country.

Michael Yount · 11-07-2009, 09:55 AM

Buying a used tranny at a swap meet from someone you don't know is a crap shoot. Even if you do everything described above you can still end up with a useless tranny. Best bet is to buy from a reputable seller that has some type of guarantee.

Stang D · 11-07-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Yount

Buying a used tranny at a swap meet from someone you don't know is a crap shoot. Even if you do everything described above you can still end up with a useless tranny. Best bet is to buy from a reputable seller that has some type of guarantee.

X2

I pulled my T-5 apart just because it was out. It was functioning well. Still spent over $400 on parts to make it right.

SPeace-ATL · 11-07-2009, 11:22 AM

In purchasing cores, I have bought some real doozies from people that said they were working fine, just needed a synchronizer or two...

Those are usually the worst! When I open them, I find that the synchro engagement teeth on every gear as well as the and synchro assemblies and rings are all shot! So, what is left for me in the tranny? Usually a case, a main shaft and a plastic speedometer gear!

Out of all the T5s I have opened that were supposedly good, I have only opened one that was truly in good shape. It came from an 88k mile Cash for Clunkers car!

Ok, back to the hints:

Endplay of the input shaft was mentioned, but it also should be firm if you wiggle it from side to side. If it is really loose, that is a bad sign. Most always, when I find a really loose input shaft, the drive teeth on the input shaft and the mating driven teeth on the cluster are seriously/severely worn. I believe the looseness causes an improper mesh in those two gears and cause extreme wear.

Units with heavy gear wear are usually caked with graphite deposits. the seller can clean this, but rub your finger down in the shifter cavity. Particularly in the corners and look for dark grey/black smudgy stuff that is hard to wash off your hand. If the fluid has been drained, see if you can open the drain plug and stick a finger in there to see what you can get out. If it is dark black/grey and smudgy, you don't want it.

Look in the speedometer drive hole at the gear. The teeth should be even and those in the middle of the gear should not be shorter than the others. If they are, it is worn. This wear is usually from using a white gear on the VSS unit. It doesn't mesh worth a hoot! The speedometer gear should be fairly clean. If it is really dark in all the crevaces, that is graphite caking.

I don't know that smelling the fluid can really determine much, as there are no bands to burn up in a T5 as there are in an automatic transmission.

If you can drain a little fluid, that would be great. Good fluid has the red ATF look, sometimes people use a clear, or purple synthetic product. that is ok as well. Those that have heavy gear wear, will have dark, dark fluid and the last to come out will reflect little silvery streaks in the sunlight. Sometimes the T5 will have gear oil and will smell like a differential. That doesn't necessarily kill it, but it is the wrong fluid and is a really messy to rebuild!

There is a magnet in the bottom of the case that caches most metal particles, but not aluinum. I have seen aluminum shavings come out in the oil. In those cases, the front cluster bearing went out and the cluster gear was grinding on the main case. There is not much clearance there...

When turning the main shaft and walking it through the gears, feel and listen for any repetitive taps, clicks, or hard spots in any gear. This is an indication of a chipped tooth.

It is hard to describe the proper backlash you should feel in the gears, because even a healthy T5 will have more of this than you would think.

If there is no tag to decode, look at the casting number on the main case and tail housing.

On the main case, it is by the backup light switch.
It will be a 13-52-065-xxx number
-904 is pre-1985 non-World Class - RUN FROM IT!
-908 is 1985-1989 WC
-921 is around 1990-1991
-922 is around 1992 or newer.

On the tail case, it is on the side of the shifter housing. If it is not there, it will be stamped inside the shifter housing on the newer ones.
It will be a 13-52-066-xxx number
-908 is non-world class
-919 is sometimes on a non-WC unit, but is on WC units through 1989
-935 is usually on the 90/91 units
-939 is on the 1992 and newer units

Look at the input shaft.
Measure from the tip of the shaft to the face of the main housing.
If it is about 7 inches, it is a PRE-1994 (Fox-Body style)
If it is about 8 inches, it is a 1994 or newer. (SN-95 style)

If a 5/8 , or 15mm wrench will slip over the tip of the input shaft it is a 4-cylinder T5.
The 4-cylinder input shaft will measure about 7 1/4 inches from the face of the main case.

Mustang5L5 · 11-07-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeace-ATL

In purchasing cores, I have bought some real doozies from people that said they were working fine, just needed a synchronizer or two...

I picked out up recently for free to rebuild on my own time. I just got it apart.

What "felt" like a good T-5 doing the typical external checks ended up not being the case.

Mainshaft tip scored, reverse idler gear rounded over badly, nearly all the dog teeth and synchro sliders mashed and mangled, the magnet COVERED in metal shavings and discovered a small crack in the case once i cleaned it up! The entire T-5 was covered in ATF, so i concluded it all leaked out of the crack and ran nearly dry causing the mainshaft to score and other damage.

Friend said "I think it just needs synchros"

SO this one will just be for parts for my next patient.

SPeace-ATL · 11-07-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang5L5

I picked one up recently for free to rebuild on my own time. I just got it apart.

What "felt" like a good T-5 doing the typical external checks ended up not being the case.

Mainshaft tip scored, reverse idler gear rounded over badly, nearly all the dog teeth and synchro sliders mashed and mangled, the magnet COVERED in metal shavings and discovered a small crack in the case once i cleaned it up! The entire T-5 was covered in ATF, so i concluded it all leaked out of the crack and ran nearly dry causing the mainshaft to score and other damage.

Friend said "I think it just needs synchros"

SO this one will just be for parts for my next patient.

Right! I feel your pain!
None of those will show up without opening it. There might possibly have been a clue in the fluid. (What little was left.)

Unfortunately, if the synchro teeth on the gears are worn, the mating teeth on the synchro hubs will be shot as well. All you have is a top cover, tail case, some shift forks and a speedometer gear... Your cluster MIGHT be good, depending on how poor the input shaft mesh with it was. If it is blue-ish and discolored, or the gear faces worn, that too is ruined.

When it wears down enough that the synchros don't work, it is too late, it hit metal to metal. The gear and synchro hub are both ruined.

I tell people that synchros are like disc brake pads. When your brake pads wear to the metal, your rotors are ruined.

Mustang5L5 · 11-07-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeace-ATL

All you have is a top cover, tail case, some shift forks and a speedometer gear... Your cluster MIGHT be good, depending on how poor the input shaft mesh with it was. If it is blue-ish and discolored, or the gear faces worn, that too is ruined.

Yup, you are 100% correct. That's basically all i have for parts. Everything else is trash.

The cluster "looks" okay, but i haven't taken it out of the case yet to fully inspect it correctly. If it looks questionable i'm trashing it.