From Mike in Engine Build:
Okay, so here is where I am at with gathering of data.
The first thing I did was get copies of the orders as well as correspondence and dates of this info. This is not to discount anything that anybody is saying but only to go with what hard info I can find. Here is the timeline of events I have found.
Quoted Date- 1 Week
1/20/09- Initial Order Date
2/03/09- Shipped Date (See att. #1)
So the quoted date was 1 week and we shipped in two weeks or 10 business days instead. I can understand the frustration in being a week late, but I could also see that one week might not be the end of the world if other issues had arisen. I know that the current castings that we had received from our supplier did all indeed have issues with concentricity in the guide bore to seat bore relation. We had many orders in the queue at the time and decided that the product would be inferior unless we scrapped the castings we had and got more. So we did indeed do that and purchased more castings. This did cause a 1 to 1½ week delay. At this point all we can do is apologize for this delay, it was a situation that was unavoidable but in order to ship only good product it had to happen.
2/26/09- Complaint/Issue Posted on MF
2/27/09- Contacted and instructed by Andy what to do next.
3/06/09- Contacted by Andy on MF via PM (See att #2) to check on flow progress you had made. Andy offered if the heads had not shipped at that point that he would issue a call tag to get the heads back on our UPS account so that PSI would not be charged for the shipping.
3/10/09- PSI responds to Andy letting him know that the heads were shipped out today (See att #3)
The date of the head arrival is information I have yet to been able to find in any written format. On the receiving end since we receive the packages in a batch we are unable to easily see the package or track it. A further call placed to UPS today verified that the only way to get accurate and exact tracking would have to come from the originator of the shipment. So given that it would be appreciated if PSI could find the original tracking number or maybe provide us with the required info so we can coordinate with UPS and get that date solidified. As of right now we only have an estimated date of arrival and I would prefer only to use hard facts.
3/23/09-3/27/09 Estimated date of arrival for heads back from PSI
3/25/09- Started on replacement set of heads
3/26/09-4/01/09- CNC Machine is down for repair (Not customers fault, only listed to show holdups in manufacturing new heads for customer)
3/30/09-4/02/09 Primary or initial teardown and flow baseline
4/02/09-4/07/09- Newen Valve Machine is down for repair (Not customers fault, only listed to show holdups in manufacturing new heads for customer)
4/03/09- Secondary flow verification to qualify numbers as good and eliminate any variables. Established a solid baseline number (See att #4)
4/06/09- (Estimate) Andy called and attempted to leave a message but voice mailbox was full
4/08/09- (Estimate) PSI returns call to Andy and Andy informs him that if all goes well we should ship by that Friday the 10th.
4/09/09- (Estimate) Andy calls PSI asking for the bore size of the engine so that we can verify that is it 3.700 bore. The reason being is that we would like to install our new upgraded valve seats in the cylinder heads since they are an improvement over stock and at this point we would like to try and provide whatever improvements we can to the heads as they became available. This was just to try and give the customer something for his inconvenience.
4/13/09- New valve seats are received in to go along with these heads. (See att. #5)
4/15/09- (Estimate) PSI returns Andys phone call and informs him that indeed the heads are for a 3.700 bore engine.
4/15/09-4/17/09- Heads are finished and ready to ship (Heads do not ship with UPS that Friday the 17th however due to missing the UPS cutoff)
4/20/09- Heads ship Monday the 20th via UPS. (See att. #6)
So in this cycle from the initial start and order date to the date of the second set of heads shipping I have 3 months on the nose.
Now looking at the numbers and data that is listed currently here is what I have. The numbers in that small graph that show the advertised number for the higher .100 and .200 numbers are way off. These do not match our actual numbers on the head. After sifting through the old flow data I found the error in the flowsheet where the formula was goofed and the equation used to come up with those flow numbers are wrong. Again this was not Ricks fault as he was handed the sheet and went with what was listed. This error is all involved fault, we should have been more diligent in our methods and done a better job of checking the accuracy of the website to catch this error. As of writing this all of the flow numbers that do not have current verification are being pulled from the site in order to verify that they are indeed correct.
Next beyond that is the flow sheet that goes with your heads is not the sheet you indeed have. This error was the result of terminology. Andy was told that the heads were being done using the 3R seats; he mistook that as your heads were being done to the newer 3R version which is supposed to be released shortly. These heads have the larger seats as well. So he thought the flow numbers were the same not realizing that the numbers were indeed different between your heads and this first one-off set of 3R heads. This is partially my fault as well as I did not clearly explain this to him and only used the 3R terminology. I should have clearly stated the difference in heads and why. So part of the blame for that goes on me and I am indeed sorry for that.
Since all this has come up we went and looked at our flowbench and checked the verification to see where it was at. It was verified about 6 months ago and then again just today. The numbers are within 1cfm of the factory verification that Superflow did on the machine when they had it last. So we know the bench is good. We also had a head checked on our bench and another bench and the numbers were within 2 CFM.
I am listing the flow bench calibration info just because I am confused as to the numbers that PSI initially listed on the first set of heads that they received. The numbers listed for the first set of heads we sent say they do not even break the 260 mark. Yet on this same calibrated bench that I just listed the calibration and dates for I have the following flow sheet (see att #4). This lists them at 282cfm and this was exactly as the heads were out of the box as we received them back from PSI. So at this point I am kind of confused why the numbers are so different.
I think at this point an independent test is needed. So for this we are going to try and have Mark if he would be gracious enough to allow us to use his heads have them test flowed at an independent shop that is close to him. We are just looking to have an independent shop verify the numbers that we gave to Mark as well as he posted.
Beyond everything at this point I can see why you are frustrated with what you have received. We have made mistakes on our side that allowed you to get to this point. First we sent out a set of development heads that were not supposed to be for any customer and were only for testing. Then we screwed up the flow numbers and should have checked them for accuracy. These are mistakes that I can understand in your scenario if you would choose not to deal with us in the future. All we can do is apologize for these mistakes at this point. We also would offer a full refund to PSI for these heads as well.
What I have listed here is the facts as I have found them. It is not my intention to try and place blame on anyone else. Livernois as an organization made mistakes that lead to this. I can say that I found no intent to deceive or trick anyone and only found these errors which lead to this situation. While we try and hold ourselves to the highest standards I also understand the ability to make mistakes will happen and at that point the only respectable thing to do is own up and be honest about those mistakes. Being open and truthful is paramount in business. We have worked very hard to build our reputation and that is done through customer service, good reliable product and many other factors. If we do make mistakes we need to make sure to make things right.
I do intend to keep sifting through information as it appears before me. I also am going to doing further investigation into all the information posted on the website. I know that we try to be as accurate as possible but I want to guarantee that all the information listed is as accurate as possible.
If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I would like to thank Mark for being the guinea pig to test and verify numbers at an outside source if he is indeed able to do so.
Rick Leblanc, Andy Ricketts, Dan Millen and Tom Millen all contributed and helped me in my search for information.
File Type: pdf PSI Info.pdf (371.5 KB, 2 views)
Sold! 99 Saleen Speedster
Sold! 01 Cobra Convertible
'99 Corvette Convertible, Livernois Motorsports Stage 1 LS1 Heads, Custom 224/228 114 Camshaft, LG Motorsports Long Tube Headers and X-Pipe, Z06 Titanium Catback, Lowered, Chrome Thinspokes, GM Export Tail Lights, Tuned by Livernois Motorsports - ET:firstname.lastname@example.org