no way a LSX motor

[5.0mustang5speed]

why does the lsx threads get locked ?they claimed a stock 6.0 with a cam and intake change will run 9's cause they heads flow over 300 on the intake...well you people are so full of crap..i checked with 4 different head porters and all the head producers and they do not even came close to flowing 300 in stock form, and asking many many racers , ford, chevy...etc..they all laughed , it is not possible to do that with only a cam and intake changed in that weight of car.., this is just one i checked with, the other are all withing 5-10 cfm, to get lsx heads to 300 they have to be worked over or aftermarket--updated...i was wrong on the head number it is the l92 that is the better head...more to follow

6.0 Liter heads casting number 317, Valve job done 2.0/1.55 milled .030

INT EX

.1-92 69

.2-169 126

.3-225 159

.4-263 180

.5-267 188

.6-268 190

[r.barn]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

why does the lsx threads get locked ?they claimed a stock 6.0 with a cam and intake change will run 9's cause they heads flow over 300 on the intake...well you people are so full of crap..i checked with 4 different head porters and all the head producers and they do not even came close to flowing 300 in stock form, and asking many many racers , ford, chevy...etc..they all laughed , it is not possible to do that with only a cam and intake changed in that weight of car..just wanted you lsx guys to know that we did not fall for your lies, this is just one i checked with, the other are all withing 5-10 cfm, to get lsx heads to 300 they have to be worked over or aftermarket

6.0 Liter heads casting number 317, Valve job done 2.0/1.55 milled .030

INT EX

.1-92 69

.2-169 126

.3-225 159

.4-263 180

.5-267 188

.6-268 190

Its the NEW 6.2L L92 heads that come on the LS3 and L92 truck engines
that flow 300+cfm out of the box for about $1,000

Not the 317/243 heads, those are old LS6 heads basically,
and the above flow numbers look about right for them. Considering you
can pick up 317 heads for about $200, thats a lot of bang for the buck too.

[CamFox]

LS6 heads flow more than that.....Ive seen mildly ported LSx heads (cannot remember which ones, couple years ago) flow 260+ easily. Thats one of the many keys to the LSx success.

[r.barn]

http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php

Above listed numbers are actually even better than whats on that link too.

[88gtguy]

Best as I can see, they were getting locked because of things seemed to resort to name calling to some effect.

I don't see why, for the name calling, but to each their own. But in that debate, it sure seemed the ford guys were getting it handed to them! lol

[r.barn]

Originally Posted by CamFox

LS6 heads flow more than that.....Ive seen mildly ported LSx heads (cannot remember which ones, couple years ago) flow 260+ easily. Thats one of the many keys to the LSx success.

The 317 head is the LS6 head with a bigger combustion chamber to drop
compression for the 6.0L truck engine they went on.

The 243 head is the LS6 head. Also came on the LS2
True Z-o6/LS6 heads had light weight valves is only difference for the Z06 heads.

With a little mild port work they will flow 300, if he was told they flow
300 in stock form, then .... yes someone was talking shyt.

People like that I just say "wow really ?" and dont believe another word they say

[5.0mustang5speed]

maybe i got the head number wrong

[CamFox]

OH, ####....Im dsylexic or something.....I thought 190 was the headflow @.600 lift LOL! I didnt even think to look for both intake AND exhaust numbers in your original post. Sorry LOL

[5.0mustang5speed]

ok i went back and read the post..ok it is the L-92 heads they are the better heads..i will get back to this later..and guys i am interested in this just form the in formation so please lets keep the name calling to nothing so this thread don't get locked

[5.0mustang5speed]

Originally Posted by r.barn

Its the NEW 6.2L L92 heads that come on the LS3 and L92 truck engines
that flow 300+cfm out of the box for about $1,000

Not the 317/243 heads, those are old LS6 heads basically,
and the above flow numbers look about right for them. Considering you
can pick up 317 heads for about $200, thats a lot of bang for the buck too.

so where do i find the flow charts for them or a web site that has info on them

[5.0mustang5speed]

here is what i found...copied from another site..wow
The box stock heads topped 330 cfm on the intake and came close to 200 cfm on the exhaust


Lift Intake Flow Exhaust Flow
(inches) (CFM) (CFM)
0.1 79.2 57.8
0.2 153 114.4
0.3 225 147.2
0.4 276 170.3
0.5 309.6 183.1
0.55 323.2 186
0.6 332.2 189.5
0.65 327.7 191.1
0.7 330 192.6
0.75 317 195
0.8 317 195.8

[r.barn]

Chevy hit a home run with those new L92 heads for sure.

They come on the L76 engine in Aussie, the LS-3,
the 6.2L L92 truck engines and on the LS-7 in a slightly modified version

There are some good technical artlc out there on them too.
Talk about the tricks they used designing the intake runners to
get those awesome flow numbers. The 2.16 intake valves dont hurt either.

You can swap them onto the big 4.0" bore 6.0L LS2 and iron 6.0 truck blocks too.
but not on to the smaller bore LS1's or 5.3 truck blocks.

[5.0mustang5speed]

cheapest i found them for so far is 598.00 each assembled from the dealer but on ebay are super cheap..219.00 each bare from jegs--------another seller has them for 425.00 assembled

[5.0mustang5speed]

i am at wow.....not over the LS motors but over this stock l92 heads freaking 2.16 intake valves ..

[5.0mustang5speed]

Originally Posted by r.barn

Chevy hit a home run with those new L92 heads for sure.

They come on the L76 engine in Aussie, the LS-3,
the 6.2L L92 truck engines and on the LS-7 in a slightly modified version

There are some good technical artlc out there on them too.
Talk about the tricks they used designing the intake runners to
get those awesome flow numbers. The 2.16 intake valves dont hurt either.

You can swap them onto the big 4.0" bore 6.0L LS2 and iron 6.0 truck blocks too.
but not on to the smaller bore LS1's or 5.3 truck blocks.

the whole ordeal on the old post was that you use a 6.0 truck block , swap the heads to these, add a big cam and run 9's, after looking at these i dont see why not or very close to it, and the price...wow...

[bykr]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

the whole ordeal on the old post was that you use a 6.0 truck block , swap the heads to these, add a big cam and run 9's, after looking at these i dont see why not or very close to it, and the price...wow...

I don't see what all the fuss is about.The heads are great,but to run a solid roller everything but the valves are being replaced in the valvetrain.The shortblock is nothing special,so really it just boils down to the bare heads/valves being cheap for the flow #'s.Plently of SBF heads available used that can flow those #'s. People like to say 6.0 block, big roller cam and your going 9's,but that's not realistic with no compression and a "big" roller cam in a 6.0.

[5.0mustang5speed]

still looks good, but i will stay with my ford, just thought i would share the info

[gray86hatch]

We will see I am trying to locate a ls3 motor right now. FTI claims some cubes and comp cam

I would really like to mess with one of these things just have to find the right deal.

Later
Tim

[r.barn]

Originally Posted by gray86hatch

We will see I am trying to locate a ls3 motor right now. FTI claims some cubes and comp cam

I would really like to mess with one of these things just have to find the right deal.

Later
Tim

Just get a 6.0L iron truck block and over bore it. Dime a dozen. called the LQ4 and LQ9 engine.
or look for the L92 truck engine. Iron block LS3 with truck cam and intake and lower compression.

Originally Posted by bykr

I don't see what all the fuss is about.The heads are great,but to run a solid roller everything but the valves are being replaced in the valvetrain.The shortblock is nothing special,so really it just boils down to the bare heads/valves being cheap for the flow #'s.Plently of SBF heads available used that can flow those #'s. People like to say 6.0 block, big roller cam and your going 9's,but that's not realistic with no compression and a "big" roller cam in a 6.0.

People just like to make a big deal cause its an OEM part with aftermarket
performance. And fairly cheap compared to aftermarket heads too.

I think people running 9's on the 6.0 are neglecting to mention the No2
being sprayed. They will run high 10's n/a and 9's on the gas.

[ROG30Y]

gray?????dont be traitor!!!!!!

[5.0mustang5speed]

these heads will bolt directly to a sbf..and there is a kit to run a regular sbf distributor on it ..more ford then chevy

[93FIVEOH]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

these heads will bolt directly to a sbf..

That's a pretty bizarre statement. Where can I see proof?

[AidanN20]

Well, expect to see my notchback running 9's N/A on 346" LS1 shortblock in Pinks All Out next weekend...

Nothing but Stock heads ported, bigger cam and intake.

You cant touch the performance/driveability/weight of a alum block LS1 setup in a fox. Way better bang for the buck than a built SBF.

[jw33]

I thought this was a cool article with some very in-depth information about one of GM's newer LSx series motors. I know a lot of people #### all over the LSx just because, but if you're a true gear head then you might find this to be a good read...

http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls3/index.htm

[r.barn]

Originally Posted by 93FIVEOH

That's a pretty bizarre statement. Where can I see proof?

Yeah, dont see it, I think the bore spacing is the same but the bolt pattern
is different.

[jw33]

9's in what is the question. Not typical, but it has been done in a hybrid car.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/easter...n-results.html

You'll get people in here who are going to #### all over the lsx just because they are brain washed and have been around a few dip####s who put together turd combos and didn't know what they are doing. With the right parts in the right hands they are great motors. You can find one at a junkyard or order one brand new from GM. They don't cost a fortune to build and get 5-600hp. Anything more than that and money goes out the window. fyi the LS2 in my car makes around 500hp with the untouched stock heads, stock throttle body, stock MAF, no UDP, and all accesories. It has longtube headers and an FTI cam. It drives as docile on the street as any mustang and it will get down and run if you get on it. The LS3 would make about 50hp more with a comparable exhaust/cam change.....

[Raceallday1]

Originally Posted by AidanN20

Well, expect to see my notchback running 9's N/A on 346" LS1 shortblock in Pinks All Out next weekend....

With the raceweight you'll be at, it won't take much to be running 9s. You can't give the glory to the motor when the chassis is lighter than an NHRA pro-stocker.

Originally Posted by AidanN20

Way better bang for the buck than a built SBF.

Proof?

[bykr]

Originally Posted by AidanN20

Well, expect to see my notchback running 9's N/A on 346" LS1 shortblock in Pinks All Out next weekend...

Nothing but Stock heads ported, bigger cam and intake.

You cant touch the performance/driveability/weight of a alum block LS1 setup in a fox. Way better bang for the buck than a built SBF.

I doubt it.The only thing thats getting you even close to those #'s is the gutted car it's in.Put it in a normal weight Fox(2700#) and it's a 10.50 car.You can do that with a 347

[5.0mustang5speed]

only thing that makes this motor anything is the factory heads...pick up a short block add heads cam intake , heads are cheap, other then that the motor is no different then finding a 351w from a truck toss a super victor intake on , nice cam and a set of afr heads , which will cost 2000.00 $$, which is off set cause you have to buy a carb intake with the msd box for the ls motor which is 700.00 and then buy a crossmember and headers so really the cost of being cheaper is gone. but still the heads are nice for stock, i am impressed that the motor can make nasty power with stock heads but thats it

[bykr]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

only thing that makes this motor anything is the factory heads...pick up a short block add heads cam intake , heads are cheap, other then that the motor is no different then finding a 351w from a truck toss a super victor intake on , nice cam and a set of afr heads , which will cost 2000.00 $$, which is off set cause you have to buy a carb intake with the msd box for the ls motor which is 700.00 and then buy a crossmember and headers so really the cost of being cheaper is gone. but still the heads are nice for stock, i am impressed that the motor can make nasty power with stock heads but thats it

x2

[Raceallday1]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

why does the lsx threads get locked ?they claimed a stock 6.0 with a cam and intake change will run 9's cause they heads flow over 300 on the intake...well you people are so full of crap..i checked with 4 different head porters and all the head producers and they do not even came close to flowing 300 in stock form, and asking many many racers , ford, chevy...etc..they all laughed , it is not possible to do that with only a cam and intake changed in that weight of car.., this is just one i checked with, the other are all withing 5-10 cfm, to get lsx heads to 300 they have to be worked over or aftermarket--updated...i was wrong on the head number it is the l92 that is the better head...more to follow

I tried to preach this years ago but it did no good. Once I realised I was dealing with a crowd who believes everything they are told and has no real track experience, I pretty much gave it up.

It was entertaining though. Back then, they were trying to say stock LS1 heads were flowing 300 cfm without porting. That was already after I had seen the flowbench data on a pair of ported paper thin LS6 heads that barely flowed 350 cfm @ .700.

What aggravates me is, there is a lot of really experienced people on this site that know all these claims coming from the LS crowd are complete bs. I guess they won't refute any of the bs because they are afraid of losing potential customers.

The L92 head, from what little research I've done is definitely better. It is the only head ever casted by GM for a small block that is a good 'bolt on' performance head. Is it better than some of the old stock Ford stuff? Hard to say. But if it is, it isn't enough to justify the cost and hastle of swapping an LS motor in just to be able to use them. They may be a little over $1000 for a pair, but for the same price, you can buy an eqivalent head for a sbf. Keep in mind these guys are still paying upwards of $2000 for a used motor. For around $1000, the average person can build a stock short block sbf, install the equivalent heads, intake, carb, cam kit, and have the same performance for the same price without the hastle of a hybrid motor swap.

The good thing about sbfs are the stroker kits are really cheap. When you get ready to add more ci, you definitely have the cost advantage over the LS motors.

[Raceallday1]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

but still the heads are nice for stock, i am impressed that the motor can make nasty power with stock heads but thats it

Contact Buddy Rawls. He can tell you which ford motor you need to use that can make nasty power with the stock heads also.

[jw33]

Originally Posted by 5.0mustang5speed

only thing that makes this motor anything is the factory heads...pick up a short block add heads cam intake , heads are cheap, other then that the motor is no different then finding a 351w from a truck toss a super victor intake on , nice cam and a set of afr heads , which will cost 2000.00 $$, which is off set cause you have to buy a carb intake with the msd box for the ls motor which is 700.00 and then buy a crossmember and headers so really the cost of being cheaper is gone. but still the heads are nice for stock, i am impressed that the motor can make nasty power with stock heads but thats it

Anything beyond the longblock is pretty much a wash in my opinion. In other words, you're going to need intake/carb/headers for a chevy/ford/mopar in the event you pull a drivetrain out of a salvage yard. A chevy manifold is going to run you about the same as any other brand.

Here's where I stand on the lsx platform. Right now I don't think there is a better bang for the buck engine when you're talking about your average 4-500hp small block. They are plentiful/affordable, they have a huge aftermarket, and they are light weight/compact. I have had both a 351w and a ls2 in my car. Both were run of the mill builds with very comparable parts. I'm not comparing a full out race built ford to a factory GM or vice-versa. The lsx is a way better fit for me. It drives smoother, it weighs less and fits better, it cost less, and it makes more power. I don't get a monthly check from GM and I didn't get one from ford when I had the 351w. My car is a street car and 99% of the people who see my car don't even know it's not a ford motor until I open the hood. Almost everyone thinks it's a SBF with spray at the track and when they find out it's a ls2, they start to ask how they can do the same swap.

[2stangcoupes]

don't forget that we're getting it done with less cubes

[Raceallday1]

Originally Posted by jw33

Here's where I stand on the lsx platform. Right now I don't think there is a better bang for the buck engine when you're talking about your average 4-500hp small block. .

This is where the logic coming from the LS crowd eludes me. First of all 4-500 hp from a typical sbf or LS motor is not that much. I'm building a 351 right now that will make around 500 hp and is a mild motor. 10.6:1 compression, flat tappet cam, .600/.610 lift with 242/252 duration, 114 LSA. Valve springs are very mild around 325 pounds of open pressure. This is going to be driven almost every day. When I get done, I might have $2500 in the entire build from the ground up. A brand new fresh built motor with zero miles. Not a used pull out. By the time you buy a used motor, add the cam kit, and other stuff, you'll have way more than $2500 and still a used motor.

And guess what else? The engine is going to bolt right into the car! No fooling with custom mounts, drive shafts, headers, radiator hoses, nothing. So I don't see how you can say an LS motor fits better when they will not bolt directly into the car nor will anything else work.

Originally Posted by jw33

They are plentiful/affordable, they have a huge aftermarket,.

Ummm, how you taken a gander at what's been available for an sbf for the past 40 years?

Originally Posted by jw33

I have had both a 351w and a ls2 in my car. Both were run of the mill builds with very comparable parts.

If they had comparable parts, they should have had comparable power. If not, then the 351 had some mismatched parts, or the tune was off. It could be either if you were having problems with it running smooth.

It's easy to screw up an sbf. There's plenty of aftermarket support, and the parts are cheap, but the entire world is geared toward tuning/building chevrolet motors. Very few people I have run across really know what they are doing when it comes to choosing the right parts and tuning/building an sbf. This goes for the bbf stuff as well. There is no telling how many potentially fast combos I have seen that were being killed by a stock mass air meter, or the guy refusing to get a custom computer tune. We have one local that can't get his carbed bbf coupe into the 11s and the damn thing has aluminum heads while another guy has the same motor in the same type car and runs 10s with the stock iron heads. Less money, more power, simply because one guy knows what he is doing and the other does not.