Back to simple... Basic GT40P, bolt ons and an on3turbo kit

[5.0calypso93lx]

About a year ago I had this car almost complete NA with a bunch of fancy parts and got way over my head in complication. A house, car payment and baby later I've decided to step WAY back and go with a budget, simple, k.i.s.s. combo. I had a bunch of random parts stockpiled over the years of messing with this car and changing combo's 100 times so I'm trying to throw something together with either what I have or whatever I can pickup on the extreme cheap.

I recently picked up a super cheap 302 with:
-F cam
-Stock Ford forged pistons
-Melling M68 pump
-Windage tray
-Rollmaster billet timing set
-ARP studs everywhere

Snagged some GT40P heads with some type of upgraded springs, Exploder intake, FRPP 65mm TB and some old school 1.7 Steeda pedestal rockers. Going to throw everything on as is, no port work whatsoever.

Going to run a 3550 with a stock clutch and flywheel

Lastly picked up an on3kit with the bugs worked out. Has a nice aftermarket braided oil drain, braided oil feed and the DP and crossover are wrapped.

The car as it sits now:



Some of the coldside:




Crossover and WG:



Tremec 3550 and Pro 5.0 shifter:



Ol' crusty motor:





Engine bay (sent back my LS swap k member and am getting a standard Team Z k member AGAIN lol):



Interior:

[5.0calypso93lx]

Per this thread:

Valve sweep position not changing with shims or different pushrod length??

Kinda stuck until I can get some shorter rocker stands. The ones I have are somehow way tall at about .750" and I wasn't aware they made different sizes. I was starting to doubt the motor had an F cam with how much clearance there was but this explains a lot.

[gearhead31]

Looks good James, I want to see this thing done !! You should be receiving a package tomorrow, it might help you out some !!

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by gearhead31

Looks good James, I want to see this thing done !! You should be receiving a package tomorrow, it might help you out some !!

Thanks Scott!! Can't wait! I'm ready to drive this thing... LOL.

I can't remember if I already asked you, but do you happen to know what kind of springs are on the heads? I can't find any markings on them besides those red paint marks.

[gearhead31]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

I can't remember if I already asked you, but do you happen to know what kind of springs are on the heads? I can't find any markings on them besides those red paint marks.

I'm pretty sure they are Comp Cams springs, I don't know the part # or anything though. They are definitely not a stock spring or stock replacement.

[1BAD6T6]

Glad to see you're back at it.

[Mustangmichael]

This is finally getting finished? Well, guess the Myans were right. darn.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by 1BAD6T6

Glad to see you're back at it.

Thanks sir! I need to go back and visit your build thread, haven't been on here in a while. Looks like you found a new chassis?

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by Mustangmichael

This is finally getting finished? Well, guess the Myans were right. darn.

You know my history Mike, I've been way further along on the car and parted it out There is always time

Hopefully I can get this combo going though. With the new baby I have basically no time to work on the car now as it is so I need to stick with something simple that I know how to do myself. As long as I can get some help from Fordfan Kenny on the wiring for the battery relocation, e fan and gauges I should be able to knock everything else out myself.

[1BAD6T6]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

Thanks sir! I need to go back and visit your build thread, haven't been on here in a while. Looks like you found a new chassis?

Yeah. A 93 4 cyl Coupe. Should be a smidgen faster.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Got a few things done over the past two nights. Got the new rocker stands from Scott (thanks again!). There ended up being about .200" difference between the two and it's very obvious in this pic:



Checked PTV clearance again and it's much closer, but still within spec. I got about .087 and .112. That's borderline but that was also without a head gasket. The compressed thickness of the 9333's are .047 so I should be fine.

Did some final cleaning of the engine including tapping all the head bolt holes and blowing out all the coolant passages:



Cleaned both the block and head surfaces really good with some brake cleaner and put the 9333's on dry:



Got the heads on for good and torqued them to spec. It's not pretty but I'm ok with that lol:



Did a final check for pushrod length and my favorite pattern is what I get when I adjust the pushrod to 6.375":



Not even sure if there is a pushrod in this size. Going to give Cincy Speed a call tomorrow and see what they can do for me.

[scoates]

Those are definately crane springs as I have the same set on my gt40 heads. I am building a very similar combo too. Gt40 heads, fcam, stock forged shortblock. I'm running a th400 though. Should be fun to see how both turn out.

FWIW I had to clearance my rockers a little to clear the retainer but I have the bulky cobra 1.7 rockers.

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[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by scoates

Those are definately crane springs as I have the same set on my gt40 heads. I am building a very similar combo too. Gt40 heads, fcam, stock forged shortblock. I'm running a th400 though. Should be fun to see how both turn out.

FWIW I had to clearance my rockers a little to clear the retainer but I have the bulky cobra 1.7 rockers.

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How can you tell they're Crane's? Out of curiousity, what are the specs on your springs? I'm wondering if I'm going to have an issue with this F cam and boost trying to push the valve open.

Looks like someone already clearanced these rockers for that exact reason. I actually noticed it when I got them home and pulled them out of the box to check them out. I was wondering why they did that, but I quickly found out

Do you happen to know where I might be able to buy more retainers? I'm assuming by retainer you're referring to that metal bracket that spans over the two bolt holes for both rockers and holds the stands in place. Somehow I'm missing 4 of them.

[scoates]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

How can you tell they're Crane's? Out of curiousity, what are the specs on your springs? I'm wondering if I'm going to have an issue with this F cam and boost trying to push the valve open.

Looks like someone already clearanced these rockers for that exact reason. I actually noticed it when I got them home and pulled them out of the box to check them out. I was wondering why they did that, but I quickly found out

Do you happen to know where I might be able to buy more retainers? I'm assuming by retainer you're referring to that metal bracket that spans over the two bolt holes for both rockers and holds the stands in place. Somehow I'm missing 4 of them.

Here is the link to for the spring kit from summit. Crane only makes one kit that I am aware of and there are only a few drop in string kits available. Crane, Trickflow and Ford, maybe a few others. I would have to look back and check my records but I am certain they will work with the fcam and 1.7 rockers.
Crane Cams 44308-1 - Crane Valve Spring and Retainer Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I think they will be fine for the amount of boost you will be able to run on your combo. I ran them on a stock motor including cam and 1.7s at 14psi. It pulled good to 6k with no issues.

The retainer is the round part that sits on top of the spring and is held in with the valve locks. I am not sure what the part is called you are referring too. Maybe pedestal retainer?????? Not sure where to get any of those. Post up a picture and I am sure someone can help out.

[scoates]

Just checked and springs are good for max .560 lift cam. Fcam with 1.7 rockers is .544 so you are good.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by scoates

Just checked and springs are good for max .560 lift cam. Fcam with 1.7 rockers is .544 so you are good.

Hm, that scares me a little. They would probably be fine if I was NA but since I'm going with some boost I may run into some issues. We'll find out!

[scoates]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

Hm, that scares me a little. They would probably be fine if I was NA but since I'm going with some boost I may run into some issues. We'll find out!

Not sure what your concerns are but elaborate so there is a chance people can comment to possibly remove the concerns.

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[the pony boy]

wht mounts do you need and how many? i think i have 2 of the smaller ones floating around. phil

[5.0calypso93lx]

Crane cams calls them guides but it's the piece that both rocker stands sit inside of. I need 4 more, somehow I'm only finding 4.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by scoates

Not sure what your concerns are but elaborate so there is a chance people can comment to possibly remove the concerns.

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I'm going to run this on3 turbo kit I have and with boost you're going to have a lot more pressure in the cylinders than you would NA. The valve springs are going to need to be even stronger to accomodate this. I don't plan on running a ton of boost (hopefully only 8lbs or so), but I don't know if this gate flows enough to limit the boost that much. I don't plan on running a boost controller, rather just run it off the WG spring.

[scoates]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

I'm going to run this on3 turbo kit I have and with boost you're going to have a lot more pressure in the cylinders than you would NA. The valve springs are going to need to be even stronger to accomodate this. I don't plan on running a ton of boost (hopefully only 8lbs or so), but I don't know if this gate flows enough to limit the boost that much. I don't plan on running a boost controller, rather just run it off the WG spring.

Others can chime in but at that boost level I don't think you have anything to worry about.

FYI I was running 14 psi on the same springs and it was no issue at all.

I'm far from an expert at anything but do have some experience on my own car. I ran 14psi on stock high mileage springs without any issue. I am putting my motor together to go in my coupe. If I had concerns I would have changed them.

[stackz88]

lots of people running on3 and similar kits on stock motors with stock springs and the ever popular f-cam at block breaking power/boost levels.

you're running upgraded springs and worried? I wouldnt.

aside from forged pistons and the rocker arms, my setup is about identical to yours. cant wait to see dyno results.

what engine management are you running and what size injectors?

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by stackz88

lots of people running on3 and similar kits on stock motors with stock springs and the ever popular f-cam at block breaking power/boost levels.

you're running upgraded springs and worried? I wouldnt.

aside from forged pistons and the rocker arms, my setup is about identical to yours. cant wait to see dyno results.

what engine management are you running and what size injectors?

I hope you're right!

I picked up an A9L with the turbo kit that has a Moates Quarterhorse chip already on it. That's also what my local tuner uses so worked out great. The tune on the chip is for a 302 with this turbo kit, but with TFS heads and Eddy intake. It's also tuned for 42lb injectors. I think that's what I'm going to end up running for now and hope it's a good enough tune to get the car up to the shop to get it tuned.

I think I'm just going to stick with 42lb injectors for now unless I find a deal on some 60's. Pretty much whichever I can find cheaper.

I also went ahead and order some Trick Flow chromoly pushrods in the 6.350" length. 6.375" was the sweet spot but no one made any that were reasonably priced and I preferred the 6.350" over the 6.400" as far as the sweep goes.

Picked up a MPT70 P trim with a .96 A/R housing and got some of the rocker arm guides today. Turns out the guides are the same as any other stock ford pedestal rocker guide. As soon as I got home from picking that stuff up I got a visit from the Fedex man with my Team Z k member and motor mounts followed by the 94 / 95 fuel rails and regulator I bought off of here. Hopefully I can get a lot knocked out tonight.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Got what I wanted to done this weekend.

Motor is nearly complete, just need an oil pan and I need to get my Aaron P alt bracket sent to him so I can swap it out for the one I need for this combo.





I'm still not really sure if I installed the rockers correctly. I followed the instructions on Crane cams website so hopefully they'll be ok.

I ended up using Felpro 1250 gaskets for the intake and the ARP studs made the install really really easy. All I need now is the pan and flywheel and I'm ready to drop this thing back into the car.

Also got my front suspension buttoned up and got the team z k member in place. Can't tell you how happy I've always been with them. The accepted my old k member (LS in a fox) back and had me this one to my door in two days:




Have a flywheel located, just need to work on the details of getting it.

[scoates]

If you haven't done so yet, it might be worth mounting up the Turbo and accessories before dropping the motor in. The little things like oil filter clearance, header fitment, wiring, etc can be time consuming. Easier to sort out on the stand than bent over the fenders.

I installed my kit on my other car with the motor still in. This time I have as much on the motor as I think I can get away with and then will install it in the car.

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[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by scoates

If you haven't done so yet, it might be worth mounting up the Turbo and accessories before dropping the motor in. The little things like oil filter clearance, header fitment, wiring, etc can be time consuming. Easier to sort out on the stand than bent over the fenders.

I installed my kit on my other car with the motor still in. This time I have as much on the motor as I think I can get away with and then will install it in the car.

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That's a really good suggestion! I went ahead and did most of that last night. I got the hotside mocked up and everything fits great so far. Looks like the previous owner of the kit did the leg work for me and I see a few header bolt holes reemed out. V band connections fit fairly well though.



Not sure if I'd be able to get an oil filter on or not. Doesn't really matter anyway since I had this relo kit laying around:



Turbo mounted. Looks huge in this pic, not sure why lol:



Not really running any accessories besides the alternator and water pump. I really wish Aaron Price made a driver side mounted Alt bracket. Hopefully once I get his 302 bracket swapped out for the 351w bracket I have I can get it mocked up and see if there's any issues with clearance. I'll probably get a blanket too because the Alt will have to be close to the turbo.

[scoates]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

That's a really good suggestion! I went ahead and did most of that last night. I got the hotside mocked up and everything fits great so far. Looks like the previous owner of the kit did the leg work for me and I see a few header bolt holes reemed out. V band connections fit fairly well though.



Not sure if I'd be able to get an oil filter on or not. Doesn't really matter anyway since I had this relo kit laying around:



Turbo mounted. Looks huge in this pic, not sure why lol:



Not really running any accessories besides the alternator and water pump. I really wish Aaron Price made a driver side mounted Alt bracket. Hopefully once I get his 302 bracket swapped out for the 351w bracket I have I can get it mocked up and see if there's any issues with clearance. I'll probably get a blanket too because the Alt will have to be close to the turbo.

I have an extra 302 alt bracket and need a 351 alt bracket if you want to try and work something out.

Also when you start installing the motor, install the hotside and Turbo before installing the alternator. That area gets pretty busy. The drain line is tough to get on too so do that before the alternator as well.

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[scoates]

Make sure to get the Turbo clocked right now so the oil inlet port is pointing to 12 o'clock.

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[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by scoates

I have an extra 302 alt bracket and need a 351 alt bracket if you want to try and work something out.

Also when you start installing the motor, install the hotside and Turbo before installing the alternator. That area gets pretty busy. The drain line is tough to get on too so do that before the alternator as well.

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Which bracket is it? If it's the Aaron P 302 bracket for use with a stock mechanical pump I'm definitely interested. My bracket is for a 351w for use with a Meziere 55gpm pump. I was planning on sending it back, paying the $20 and getting the correct one. The 351w bracket I have now is brand new.

[scoates]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

Which bracket is it? If it's the Aaron P 302 bracket for use with a stock mechanical pump I'm definitely interested. My bracket is for a 351w for use with a Meziere 55gpm pump. I was planning on sending it back, paying the $20 and getting the correct one. The 351w bracket I have now is brand new.

I am not sure who made it but it is for a manual pump. I need one for a manual pump as well so sounds like you will be better of returning yours.

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[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx

Per this thread:

Valve sweep position not changing with shims or different pushrod length??

Kinda stuck until I can get some shorter rocker stands. The ones I have are somehow way tall at about .750" and I wasn't aware they made different sizes. I was starting to doubt the motor had an F cam with how much clearance there was but this explains a lot.

So I got some shorter rocker stands in, but ran into another issue where I was getting 3 full turns with the torque wrench before the rocker would tighten at 18ft/lbs.

I tried a couple .025" shims (.075" total) and I was able to get the rocker tightened at about 3/4 turn and still kept a nice looking sweep on the valve tip. I order a set of shims and got them yesterday. Hopefully get the rockers installed tonight.

[5.0calypso93lx]

Made a little progress over the weekend. Got the drivetrain back in the car:




I was really having a tough time get the pedestal rockers properly installed. I was going to start the whole process over last night after I got some tips, but that's when I ran across these heads locally for a price I just couldn't pass up:



They're 165's with Scorpion 1.6 stud mounted rockers. I'm crossing my fingers that the pushrods I just bought will work with this setup.

On the GT40P heads, the headers fit fine. I didn't have any issues and had plenty of clearance pretty much everywhere. I'm hoping to get those same results on these cylinder heads.

[TWNWHR]

Oh looky that. Those will help make some power. Nice!

[5.0calypso93lx]

Originally Posted by TWNWHR

Oh looky that. Those will help make some power. Nice!

My thread title is jacked up now though haha.

I'm glad no one noticed my mounts were on backwards.

[scoates]

You may already be planning this but make sure you can get to all the bolts to mount the turbo to the hot side before going much further. I found that having the Turbo mounted to the passenger side header and then dropping in the car is the easiest. Also connect the drain line to the turbo before install in too. It gets tight in that area when its all in the car.

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