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Old 11-24-2008, 07:02 PM   #1
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2002 Taurus- air pocket in the cooling system?

Background:

Heater core took a dump a few weeks ago. Replaced it and the thermostat.
Radiator took a dump right after heater core replacement. Replaced radiator
The car has not been ran hot.

The coolant level is full in the reservoir right now. Engine is cold.

When I'm out and about in it I've had to turn the heater off because it's blowing cold air on me. After about 10 minutes I can turn the heater back on and get a little bit of warm air for about a minute, then it's back to cold air again.

I spend about 8 hours/day in this car right now and it's really cold here! What in the hell is wrong with this thing?
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:54 PM   #2
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It's a Taurus.

No, seriously. I don't know. I have nothing to contribute here.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:55 PM   #3
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Put your hand on the upper rad hose. Does it get hot?

If yes then the blend door on the heater core is snafued, or the clip on the actuating cable/rod has slipped or broken.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:22 PM   #4
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The only time I have seen that happen is when the coolant is low. Barring that as you have checked the levels it sounds like it isnt circulating correctly.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:02 AM   #5
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Get a 12 volt electric heater that plugs into the cig adapter
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:41 AM   #6
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If you didn't burp the system:

Jack up the front end, uncap your radiator, run your motor and turn your heater on to full blast. Hold revs to speed up the process, and stop when hot air comes out.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:06 AM   #7
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i had an altima that had an air pocket. when the car idled, the pressure of the coolant wouldnt displace the air pocket and the heater blew cold air. When you revved it up, the water would displace the air and the heater would work normally. I bought a special burping kit that had a radiator cap with a tall funnel on it. this allowed the air to escape without making a mess.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:53 AM   #8
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Sounds like you have a pocket trapped.

Look near the engine for a bleed screw. My buick has two, one on each end to bleed air from the cooling system.
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:44 PM   #9
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Thanks folks!

We can't find a bleeder on it anywhere!

I felt the temp of all hoses I could reach and all were good and hot... Felt good with my ice cube fingers!

The reservoir remains full. I'm going to drop it off with my uncle in the morning and he's going to try to burp it some more... Damn shame you can't feed it onions! They sure make me burp!
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:47 PM   #10
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Garage
let us know because my sable is kinda doing the same thing
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:57 PM   #11
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Stick your head under the dash in the passenger foot well. Look for the blend door lever. Rotate the temp setting back and forth on the controls and watch the lever. If it's not functioning, grab the sucker and rotate it to see if you get any hot air.
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:02 PM   #12
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Stick your head under the dash in the passenger foot well. Look for the blend door lever. Rotate the temp setting back and forth on the controls and watch the lever. If it's not functioning, grab the sucker and rotate it to see if you get any hot air.
I'll try that too! Thanks!
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:33 PM   #13
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On my BMW I have to 'bleed' the system or it does that very thing, just FYI.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:10 AM   #14
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I hate to say this since you just replaced the heater core but I wonder if the crap from the radiator is clogging the heater core. If the mixing door isn't the problem, and you are sure you got out all the air out, try back flushing the heater core and see what comes out
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:22 AM   #15
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I hate to say this since you just replaced the heater core but I wonder if the crap from the radiator is clogging the heater core. If the mixing door isn't the problem, and you are sure you got out all the air out, try back flushing the heater core and see what comes out
x2, feel the hoses to see if they are both hot with the heat on.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:18 AM   #16
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I hate to say this since you just replaced the heater core but I wonder if the crap from the radiator is clogging the heater core. If the mixing door isn't the problem, and you are sure you got out all the air out, try back flushing the heater core and see what comes out
Bingo bango.

These system corrode from the inside out. If it clogged the heater core and radiator, chances are there is a ton more crap in the system.

Have you had an entire flush of the system? There was a recall if it still has green coolant in it, where they had to remove the freeze plugs in the block and put acid tablets in the water jackets, run it, let it sit and flush it. You wouldn't believe the #### that comes out. Usually after this the acid would eat the head gaskets and other things, causing even more damage.

Burping these is really easy, take off the over flow cap( no radiator cap on these ), hold it at 2k RPMs until she warms up and watch the air come out.

From the sounds of it, it seems like you have no flow, i.e. it's warm then gets cooler. I think you need to back flush your new heater core.
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:53 PM   #17
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Great! Now they're thinking it's head gaskets...



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Old 11-27-2008, 11:40 AM   #18
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Is this a pushrod motor?

If it is, try the backflush like others have said. Before you pull the heads take the waterpump off. I've seen these eat the fins off the pump. The corrosion is like cancer. Heater core, then freeze plugs, waterpump fins, intake, heads.
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:45 AM   #19
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Great! Now they're thinking it's head gaskets...




Check the oil fill cap for milkyness. It will look like chocolate milk on the underside if water is getting into the oil.

Do a compression check too...
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:08 PM   #20
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Damn it no efi!! Ya beat me to it

the 12 valve motors eat fins off all the time. I can't tell ya how many tauruses (taruii?) that come in w/ everything replaced (minus w/p) and still have no heat. Check for circulation and there is none. Removed the water pump and it looks like a ninja throwing star.

Before they tear it apart remove the little coolant hose coming from the intake going into the top of the overflow. It should have a constant flow out of it while running. If you're just getting spurts of coolant or nothing at all your w/p is gone.

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Old 11-27-2008, 12:10 PM   #21
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Oh yeah, unless you're blowing white smoke out the exhaust or your oil is milky, the head gaskets will probably only lighten your wallet a little more and fix nothing.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:11 PM   #22
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There's no milkshake in the oil, nor is there steam coming out the exhaust. There is an odor coming from the exhaust.

As far as I know, it's an overhead cam engine, not a pushrod engine, though I could be wrong.

I don't know how much the head gaskets will cost, nor how much to have the heads checked. My uncle will do the work for cheap though.. I'm just wondering what kind of can of worms will we be opening if we crack into that engine.

We bought it with 98,000 miles 2 years ago and had to flush the cooling system several times. It had been ran for quite some time with no antifreeze, only water and it was gunked up badly. The pipe behind the engine had to be replaced because it was rusted through.

Would we be better off finding an engine at a local salvage yard and just fix it that way (I have some good friends that will give me a decent price on an engine). Or, should it just get sold to a salvage yard and we buy another car.... This thing has 183,000 miles on it now.

FWIW, we only paid $2400 for it.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:24 PM   #23
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do you have the vin # handy, i can run it and see which engine it is for sure.

H/G's on the 24v motor is no walk in the park compared to the 12v
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:26 PM   #24
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It's rare to see a DuraTec motor fail. Usually it's lack of oil changes that wipe out the cams.

Being that you said that you had to flush it several times, it makes me think it's the 12 valve motor. They were horrible for this. From what I remember Ford said it was casting sand from production that was mixing with the coolant. It smelled like swamp water when you'd open the system.

Weird thing is that engine was around a long time, and used in a lot of different vehicles but the Taurus/Sable was the only one with this issue and the only one with a degas bottle refill set up....hmmmm.

If it is a duratec motor, get one from a boneyard. By the time you buy gaskets and 8,000 torque to yield fasteners, it will be way cheaper.

Good luck.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:30 PM   #25
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I came into the thread to suggest head gasket as well. I've had more than a few go, and this is a typical symptom.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:55 PM   #26
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I think they make a kit to check for combustion products in the coolant. If the head gasket blows right, there may never be water in the oil. Does the pushrod motors still have cast iron heads or aluminum.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:58 AM   #27
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do you have the vin # handy, i can run it and see which engine it is for sure.

H/G's on the 24v motor is no walk in the park compared to the 12v

1FAFP55222G226697


Thank you.
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:15 AM   #28
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yeah, it's just the old 12V pushrod motor. By the sounds of it, you do have a water pump that has no fins left. It's a very simple pump to change, and shouldn't even take more than two hours with simple hand tools and not having done one before.

Be sure to let us know how the old pump looks!!

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Old 11-28-2008, 10:18 AM   #29
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yeah, it's just the old 12V pushrod motor. By the sounds of it, you do have a water pump that has no fins left. It's a very simple pump to change, and shouldn't even take more than two hours with simple hand tools and not having done one before.

Be sure to let us know how the old pump looks!!

Will

So you think the head gaskets are fine?

Would the water pump be the cause of it pushing the coolant out of the reservoir with the cap off and engine running (while trying to burp the system)?
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:18 AM   #30
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I must have missed the part in your post about it burbling out of the overflow. Is it overheating when it's doing that? It can overheat due to no circulation.

It could be the headgaskets for the burbling, but on these motors we usually get smoke out of the exhaust or milky oil too. Have you done a pressure test on the cooling system when its hot?

Have you ran the vehicle hot before?

If you get a chance check for circulation on the coolant hose going from the intake to the overflow just for S and G's.

Will
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:24 PM   #31
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I must have missed the part in your post about it burbling out of the overflow. Is it overheating when it's doing that? It can overheat due to no circulation.

It could be the headgaskets for the burbling, but on these motors we usually get smoke out of the exhaust or milky oil too. Have you done a pressure test on the cooling system when its hot?

Have you ran the vehicle hot before?

If you get a chance check for circulation on the coolant hose going from the intake to the overflow just for S and G's.

Will


Yeah, after my uncle tried burping it again the other day it was pushing it's coolant out the reservoir tank with the lid off.

It hasn't been ran hot, it has never overheated since we've owned it anyway (nearly 100,000 miles and 2 years).

I just don't understand how it got like this. After the heater core replacement the heater worked just fine. Even when the heater core was leaking it was still blowing heat. I drove it a couple weeks after the heater core was replaced and that's when the radiator started leaking. The heater worked as long as the coolant level was up... I kept a jug with me and kept adding coolant to it everyday. The temp. gauge in this car is a joke, nothing more than an idiot light, but it never went above the middle of the guage.

Finally the new radiator came in and I dropped the car off for it to be replaced. My uncle said the heater was working once he got it all back together. I picked up the car and began to freeze to death.


I'm not familiar with how to do a pressure test on the cooling system, got some tips?

Also, when we first got the car, we did have to have the cooling system flushed a few times.. It was so gunked up back then and the symptom of that was the heater not working.

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as a restrictor in a hose being left out. I don't know if there is one in these cars.

This is very frustrating for me. I don't know whether to junk the car or start throwing even more money at it. Opening this engine up seems like it's going to be a big can of worms. If there's THAT much corrosion inside the cooling system, what other problems are we going to run into as hoses and parts start coming off...
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:21 PM   #32
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You could completely disregard my post, thats fine.

Do what you want.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:46 PM   #33
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I'm having similar problems with my 2001 taurus. I flushed the heater core and I thought I had flushed the whole system. The heater worked for a day or two, now the engine is overheating. I've replaced the thermostat and water pump(the blades were pretty bad). I don't think water is getting to the engine, because when I take the hose off at the thermostat, only steam comes out.

I think that the radiator may be clogged. Does the water go into the top of the radiator and out of the bottom into the water pump and is that the direction I should flush it? Any help is appreciated.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:58 PM   #34
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Have you done the Taurus fan swap and the Taurus 5g alternator swap yet?
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:14 PM   #35
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No. I haven't replaced the fan or the alternator. What would changing the alt. do?
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