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Old 10-14-2004, 10:16 AM   #1
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Need location of torque converter clutch lockup valve

I've been chasing a lockup problem for weeks now, and the only thing left to check before pulling the converter to send it back to PI is the lockup valve. Can't find a hydraulic diagram for the 4R70W, can anyone point me to where in the valvebody its located??

TIA
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Old 10-16-2004, 01:21 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOX2
I've been chasing a lockup problem for weeks now, and the only thing left to check before pulling the converter to send it back to PI is the lockup valve. Can't find a hydraulic diagram for the 4R70W, can anyone point me to where in the valvebody its located??

TIA
What kind of lockup problems are you having?
Here's a diagram of the VB-#46-48 are what you're looking for I think-it's the TCC regulator valve.


JL
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1997 Thunderbird-4.6L/4R70W
Renegade Racing Ported NON-PI's
1.74-60'
8.00@85.99~1/8 mile
12.57@107.44~1/4 mile
3760 lbs.
Just say NO to PI heads and JBA headers.
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Old 10-16-2004, 10:36 PM   #3
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Thanks for the diagram, that backs up what I found on another one but on that one it was called 'bypass clutch control valve' so I wasn't sure if I was looking at the right one or not.

The lockup problem I'm having is that it doesn't lock up I put in a used Level 10 converter and did the j-mod about 2 months ago, after about a week and on my way back from the track my converter wouldn't lock up (worked fine up til then). After some troubleshooting and remembering that we had programmed my chip to lock the converter at WOT I figured I had smoked the clutch since it wasn't designed for WOT lockup. I ended up buying a PI triple disk converter, put that in and worked great at first, but after about a week it suddenly stopped locking up. This was just on a normal drive to somewhere in town, was working, and after a stop somewhere suddenly wasn't working... With it happening to a 2nd converter I figured it must be something in the trans, and since that time I've checked everything I can think of. I ended up replacing the tcc solenoid, wiring bridge in the trans, and the plug that goes from the trans to wiring harness, all with no improvement. The only thing really left is the lockup valve somehow sticking, or its the converter itself. Before I pull the tranny (again!) to send the converter back I want to make sure I've covered every possibility other than the converter itself. I'm gonna try to find someone local with a vb I can borrow to swap in and try, replace the whole damn thing. Thats a longshot but much, much easier than pulling the trans out again. The last thing I want is to do all that work, send the converter back to them, and they tell me they can't find any problems with it.... Right now when I go to lock the converter (have a switch on the wiring) it pulls the rpm down a little bit, but doesn't hold any power. That tells me either the lockup valve is sticking, the converter clutch is toast, or there's a seal in the converter along the shaft that if damaged will leak pressure and cause the clutch to not lock up. I've been chasing in friggin' circles for 3 weeks now, I wish I had just put a damn stickshift in the car.....

Sorry for the book, just trying to be thorough....
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Last edited by TURBOX2; 10-16-2004 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 10-16-2004, 10:57 PM   #4
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When was that PI converter built?
JL
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1997 Thunderbird-4.6L/4R70W
Renegade Racing Ported NON-PI's
1.74-60'
8.00@85.99~1/8 mile
12.57@107.44~1/4 mile
3760 lbs.
Just say NO to PI heads and JBA headers.
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Old 10-16-2004, 11:05 PM   #5
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Reason I ask....This triple disc was misbuilt by PI-the lockup clutch application area was mismachined,and it forced the clutchplates to "cone" when applied,and it ruined the trans when the clutch mateiral came off.
JL
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1997 Thunderbird-4.6L/4R70W
Renegade Racing Ported NON-PI's
1.74-60'
8.00@85.99~1/8 mile
12.57@107.44~1/4 mile
3760 lbs.
Just say NO to PI heads and JBA headers.
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Old 10-16-2004, 11:33 PM   #6
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Swapping out the VB would at least tell you if it's in the valve body. I pretty much came up with the same things to look at.

Electrical; TCC, TFT sensor or OSS, besides the possible problem with the EEC.

Hyd/Mech; Low line pressure EPC, bypass clutch control valve and plunger, converter pressure limit valve, drain back valve stuck. Bolts out of torque specs. Solenoid screen blocked or damaged, TCC, #7 check ball missing or not seating, VB gasket leak,

TC; friction material damaged, no end clearance, piston plate damage or stuck to cover.
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:17 AM   #7
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JL, mine was built just a few weeks ago, when was that damaged one built??

fiveotbird, thanks for the input. The EEC looks to be fine as I've monitored voltage on the lockup wire and its pulling in when it should. Also have a switch wired into it for manual lockup. The tcc solenoid is new and tested fine before putting it in, also know its working (electrically anyway) when installed as when you turn the key to power on that solenoid and one of the shift solenoids pull in. I've taken the vb apart and cleaned it, no debris that I could find and checkballs are all in place. The trans operates perfectly other than the lockup function.....
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'11 5.0, M6, 400a, 3.73s, HIDs, 19" GT500 wheels, GT500 axle-back, Airaid cai, Steeda ultralite springs, Steeda shifter, more to come...

'01 Roush F150 Screw, 5.4 3v swap, longtubes, ported heads, XCal2, '03 Cobra maf, 30lb inj, moves pretty good for a whale.....
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOX2
JL, mine was built just a few weeks ago, when was that damaged one built??

fiveotbird, thanks for the input. The EEC looks to be fine as I've monitored voltage on the lockup wire and its pulling in when it should. Also have a switch wired into it for manual lockup. The tcc solenoid is new and tested fine before putting it in, also know its working (electrically anyway) when installed as when you turn the key to power on that solenoid and one of the shift solenoids pull in. I've taken the vb apart and cleaned it, no debris that I could find and checkballs are all in place. The trans operates perfectly other than the lockup function.....
Dan,it was built about 6-8 months ago,and that failure occured within 3 weeks after the initial install.
Are you firing off a full 12V to the TCC with that manual switch?Or is it installed just for testing purposes?
I'm suspecting the lockup frictions,or the TCC solenoid at this time.
JL
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1997 Thunderbird-4.6L/4R70W
Renegade Racing Ported NON-PI's
1.74-60'
8.00@85.99~1/8 mile
12.57@107.44~1/4 mile
3760 lbs.
Just say NO to PI heads and JBA headers.
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Old 10-17-2004, 07:55 PM   #9
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There is normally voltage at the solenoid, the computer grounds it to pull it in. The switch is on the ground side doing the same thing the computer does (though without the pulse width modulation). I know the solenoid itself works fine as you can here it pull in when engaged manually with the car off, you can also feel it if you have your finger on it. If it were not working or sticking you wouldn't hear or feel anything.
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