400 RWHP to 500 Need info - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 05-20-2017, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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400 RWHP to 500 Need info

Hey guys I am going to try and make this as easy as possible to read and comprehend but I apologize as my mind is all over the place.

I currently am making 405 to the tires with a Vortech s trim V1 at 10lbs of boost.

Current setup for the motor is

V1 S trim with 3.33 pulley
Power pipe
Treadstone TR1045 front mount intercooler
60lbs injectors
BA2600 SCT Blow through MAF
1 step colder plugs
Aeromotive 325 stealth in tank pump
Wiring upgrade for fuel pump module
Trick flow upper plenum
75mm Throttle Body



I Just installed all this stuff a couple weeks ago, got it tuned on Tuesday and I am really liking the car right now. I have 4.10 gears in the car also if that matters. So anyways the tuner said my fuel pump was running at 80% duty cycle with this power level. It made 437 at the tires but they backed the timing down a little so it would be safer for the motor.

My car had a wicked bad knock when I got it so I stuck a 70k miles 4.6 out of a grand marquis in there and that is what is in the car now. So I have the 128K miles motor sitting here with a knock of some sort just bored sitting on a stand waiting for me to build it up.

What I would like to do is have that motor bored 30 over and do a 5.0 forged stroker with the bottom end, send the heads out to get ported (TFS are not in my budget) and toss it back in the car with more boost. What I am trying to figure out is the following.

To achieve 550 at the tires...

Do I NEED to port the heads? Or would just getting a good spring set and custom cams be good enough if I just spin the blower faster?

My tuner said if I change my fuel line to something bigger my pump should be enough for 550RWHP, but yet I never see people on the forums running just one of those pumps for that kind of power. IS that pump enough?

Will my tremec 3650 hold 550 rwhp? (The car at some point had the T45 replaced with a 3650).

Rear end wise, will I break 28 spline shafts on the street or is a 31 spline setup mandatory? There is a Yukon duragrip kit on ebay, comes with 31 spline shafts, the rear limited slip and all the bearings for just under 600 bucks. Would be a very easy install. Just not sure if it is a good deal?

Are 60lbs injectors good enough for 550 rwhp?

Will I need 8 rib pulley swap setup?

Is there anything else I need to upgrade? I am trying to figure out what I am in for cost wise.

Thanks for any info!


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post #2 of 34 Old 05-21-2017, 01:43 AM
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With enough boost you can easily make 500 to the wheels with just cams and springs. My wife's car (Other than the forged bottom end) is basically stock with just cams and springs and is currently making 482/441 on just 12 PSI. Even the TB, upper plenum and intake are stock. No porting.. even lost some boost after long tubes were installed or would probably be over 500 if the stock manifolds were back in.

8 Rib pulleys are definitely recommended. After going from 8 to 10 PSI we experienced a lot of belt squeal and slippage. Tried various tensioners to no avail.

As for the T45 or 3650,. both are not really suited for much abuse beyond 300hp. TKO is really the way to go.

28 spline will be fine on the street. Tire spin will prevent the axles from breaking. At the track all bets are off. I have heard of guys using hardened Yukon 28 spline axles with mixed results. But hardened 31 or 33 spline with a better carrier would definitely be a worth while investment if you plan to hit the track frequently. Else make sure you trailer the car to the track.

Hurst

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post #3 of 34 Old 05-21-2017, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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What about the injectors and fueling?

Thanks for that info! I am actually planning on an 8 rib swap over the summer anyways, I swore I smelled burning belt rubber yesterday on a WOT pull.

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post #4 of 34 Old 05-21-2017, 04:33 PM
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The pump will be getting close, you could KB Boost a pump it, the 60# injectors are good to around 700 at moderate boost levels.
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Bunch of new stuff lol.
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-21-2017, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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So would you reccommend doing a 5.0 stroker when doing the bottom end? Or keep it at 4.6?

I have read the stock crank is good for like 600 but I am having a hard time with the idea of building a bottom end and NOT going to a forged crank. But my thought process is if I AM doing a crank, why not do the stroker setup?

Also, would you bother to port the heads? Or just do a 5.0 and cams/springs with more boost? I really would like 550 at the tires if possible.

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post #6 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 12:50 AM
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I would have the heads done, anything you can do to build power naturally, pays big divindends when under boost. A stroker crank adds inches and especially adds torque, something these little motors are lacking.
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Bunch of new stuff lol.
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post #7 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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That is how I was looking at it. Free torque basically. The 4.10's help with the "Feel" but its not actual power. I am going to the machine shop today to get pricing on everything and find out exactly what I am looking at to do everything.
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post #8 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 09:24 AM
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99-04 have larger lines than the SN95's. You are fine for 500rwhp. Just get a cobra twin pump setup with a KB BAP and you'll have plenty fuel delivery. 60's will still be ok.

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post #9 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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What about just sticking a KB Boost a pump on my Aero 325?

Just ran by the shop who tuned my car, and he was telling me if I am really only looking for 500-550 RWHP just to keep the stock crank and run forged rods and pistons, a cobra oil pump, ATI balancer, and some more boost and I could do it. I forgot to ask him about fuel though.

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post #10 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 11:46 AM
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Your GT oil pump is fine to use. That cast crank is pretty strong. I haven't seen too many crank many failures, if any on the 2v's. A BAP can work on your 325, didn't realize you had that one. ATI are pricey balancers but will be nice to have

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post #11 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Well if that is the case I can build a short block with forged rods and pistons for right around 1900-2200 bucks as I have a spare good 6 bolt crank, full spare 4.6 motor (I wont use that crank as its an 8 bolt and the one in my car now is 6 bolt so I can reuse my flywheel).

The machine shop quoted me these prices today. 300 for rotating assembly balancing, 300 to bore and hone using a torque plate or 250 without, and 300 to assemble the short block for me. Do those prices seem reasonable/fair?

AS far as heads go, the machine shop said they can do a valve job making the valves 1mm bigger in and out for about 500 bucks and I just need to supply the valves and stuff. Not sure if that is good either or even worth messing with stock heads at all to be honest.

What would I make if I just did a 4.6 short block with forged rods and pistons, stuck a BAP on my fuel pump, ran stock heads and intake, 60lbs injectors and just went from say 10-11lbs of boost I am making now to like 16 psi? I could just get an overdrive balancer right? That would help me out with belt slip vs going to a smaller vortech pulley no?

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post #12 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 06:05 PM
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Figure 15 rwhp per 1psi so 45-60hp more at the tires. Yes a larger crank pulley helps slip. I ran a 3.1" on a stock size crank pulley (Romac) and made 15.5psi sq trim with meth injection (no intercooler). Spun to 7k

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post #13 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Alright so if you were in my shoes would you be spending 4-500 ish on doing an 8 rib setup or put that money towards a larger balancer when the time comes? My engine builder said I will want a nicer ATI balancer anyways and I could just get a larger one than stock. The 8 Rib setup is fairly pricey, and then I would STILL need to get the ATI balancer right once I build the bottom end?

Man my mind is all over the place and every time I turn its more and more cash. Got to try and save as much as possible where and whenever I can.

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post #14 of 34 Old 05-22-2017, 10:29 PM
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I would get a Gates belt and run 6 rib with an over size crank pulley

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post #15 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks! Would you personally do the 4.6 with stock crank, or the 4.75/5.0 with forged crank when rebuilding?

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post #16 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 08:17 AM
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If money is no object, I'd like the stroker for the added torque, but that money can go to a bigger blower instead. Like a T trim or a D1, or even better, a Novi2000

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post #17 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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So you do trust the stock crank if I am keeping it sub 650 crank up? Upgrading my S trim to a T trim would help me push past stock heads if needed?

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post #18 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 04:08 PM
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Stock heads will be fine, but if you're running stock cams, I'd invest in blower cams. Even aftermarket NA cams will work better than stock cams. More cfm of air, the better. Stock crank will hold 600

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post #19 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I am going to have Ed Curtis from FTI grind me a set of custom blower cams for it when the time comes. I am just kind of stumped on heads.

Like if I just kept stock heads and went 1mm bigger on the valves with a nice valve job would that help it a little? I just know the TFS heads are not in my budget. I could swing doing the 5.0 stroker and keeping stock heads with a valve job. The question now is, is the S trim OK for that type of build? Can I just crank more boost from that blower or will I NEED a bigger blower?

Sorry for all the questions.

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post #20 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 05:45 PM
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You will come to the point of over spinning the blower passed it's efficiency. I am not sure what what's the most a S trim can make, but 500-550 sounds possible. I wouldn't waste your money getting 1mm bigger valves. Rather get a port job.

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post #21 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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post #22 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 06:01 PM
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Price is nice

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post #23 of 34 Old 05-23-2017, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah it seems reasonable. Every time I try to piece together those kits minus the stroker crank it is like 500 bucks away if not almost the same, unless I am doing something wrong. Almost seems dumb not to stick the forged stroker crank in there.

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You will come to the point of over spinning the blower passed it's efficiency. I am not sure what what's the most a S trim can make, but 500-550 sounds possible. I wouldn't waste your money getting 1mm bigger valves. Rather get a port job.
Alright so that saves me a bunch of money on that then. I just got to find someone who will port these heads and do a valve job in the process as they have 128K on them and are definitely in need of new hardware and springs that will take more lift.

I am honestly just thinking spin my S trim as much as possible. Looking at vortechs chart it shows the V1 Strim I have to be good for 50K rpm, 20PSI at 1000CFM.

The T Trim does 55K RPM, 26PSI at 1400CFM.

I know some people over spin the S trims a bit, but I am not looking to damage it. Maybe just stick the 4.75 together, port the heads, max the blower and let it eat?
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-18-2017, 01:28 PM
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You can 575rwhp too 600rwhp with a s trim overspuned.i made 577rwhp with shorty headers and small npi blower cams
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96gt,svo intake,svo heads,mhs blower cams strim(2.87)pulley,AFM powerpipe,60's,340 intank
sct2600,svo headers,x pipe,4.10's.495rwhp,13psi.water methanol.
11.83@121 on 18 inch drag radials@495rwhp
new numbers 577rwhp,526rwtq.new track times coming.
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post #25 of 34 Old 06-18-2017, 01:30 PM
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Just upgraded to bbk longtubes and mhs stage 3 blower cams so hoping to be over 600rwhp.dyno numbers coming soon
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96gt,svo intake,svo heads,mhs blower cams strim(2.87)pulley,AFM powerpipe,60's,340 intank
sct2600,svo headers,x pipe,4.10's.495rwhp,13psi.water methanol.
11.83@121 on 18 inch drag radials@495rwhp
new numbers 577rwhp,526rwtq.new track times coming.
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post #26 of 34 Old 06-18-2017, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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That is great to hear! You were using the 2.87 pulley for that?

Also, how high were you spinning the motor?

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post #27 of 34 Old 06-19-2017, 10:57 AM
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Using a 2.65 on a 8 rib setup along with IW 10%overdrive crank pulley.pulls were to 6400 but the s trim is out of steam and had belt slip.have a 2.85 pulley that I'm going to try for my next dyno
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96gt,svo intake,svo heads,mhs blower cams strim(2.87)pulley,AFM powerpipe,60's,340 intank
sct2600,svo headers,x pipe,4.10's.495rwhp,13psi.water methanol.
11.83@121 on 18 inch drag radials@495rwhp
new numbers 577rwhp,526rwtq.new track times coming.
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post #28 of 34 Old 06-19-2017, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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What are you using for fuel? Pump/pumps etc.

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post #29 of 34 Old 06-20-2017, 10:01 AM
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93 octance with water methanol.full fuel system,aeromotive rails,60s,8 feed 6 return with a magnafuel protuner 625 pump
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96gt,svo intake,svo heads,mhs blower cams strim(2.87)pulley,AFM powerpipe,60's,340 intank
sct2600,svo headers,x pipe,4.10's.495rwhp,13psi.water methanol.
11.83@121 on 18 inch drag radials@495rwhp
new numbers 577rwhp,526rwtq.new track times coming.
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post #30 of 34 Old 06-20-2017, 10:24 AM
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A Return fuel system is a good setup, but not necessary for the OP goals

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post #31 of 34 Old 06-20-2017, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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I wanted to do a return setup badly for this blower, but the tuner said it would make it getting through the emissions testing for the car hard. Did you have any inspection issues vortech GT?

Return is really nice as it supposedly gets rid of the lean spike issue as well. Which I REALLY don't like seeing.

Also I shot you a PM not sure if you saw it?

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post #32 of 34 Old 06-20-2017, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Oh crap, you have a 96... That explains the return setup. You had that from the factory you just made it better.

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post #33 of 34 Old 06-22-2017, 04:31 PM
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Yup
No emission testing here as the car is 21 years old

96gt,svo intake,svo heads,mhs blower cams strim(2.87)pulley,AFM powerpipe,60's,340 intank
sct2600,svo headers,x pipe,4.10's.495rwhp,13psi.water methanol.
11.83@121 on 18 inch drag radials@495rwhp
new numbers 577rwhp,526rwtq.new track times coming.
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post #34 of 34 Old 06-22-2017, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah they don't "sniff" mine but they will plug into the OBD II port and make sure there are no codes and I am only allowed 2 monitors.

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