My "re" build thread - Trick flow/turbo build - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 290 Old 05-23-2016, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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My "re" build thread - Trick flow/turbo build

Going to start a build thread for the new motor build. At this point, got the engine pulled and going to start disassembly. I have already sold my blower setup, intercooler, blow off valve, and crank pulley. The plan is to go Trick Flow head, turbo cam, and 76mm turbo setup. Most likely will convert to E85 as well. I'll have a ton of questions and ask for input, so I'll just post everything in here. Hoping to start disassembly shortly!

Old setup:



Blower being taken off:





Motor pulled:











Hoping to start getting this thing broken down shortly. First step will be to get shortblock to machine shop just to go over everything, and at a minimum I will most likely swap to stainless steel piston rings. In a perfect world, that will be the only thing I end up changing with the short block. Currently have a '97 romeo block .20 over, Cobra crank, Manley 18cc Platinum Series pistons, Manley H-beam rods, and ARP 2000 hardware. My goals for this build is 750+rwhp through the auto. Any input/suggestions are welcome and I'll keep this thread updated with progress and any questions throughout the build so I'm not clogging up space. Just an fyi, I'm starting to list stuff that I will not be using in turbo build in the for sale section. I'll also be selling my MMR Stage 3 PI heads, custom grind blower cams, and Crower high lift spring setup. Would like to keep fully assembled!


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post #2 of 290 Old 05-23-2016, 11:20 PM
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Have you chose which turbo kit you'll be going with?


ks


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79 Pace Car
302, 200hp N2O, Tremec, 9" w/ 4.11's
11.10 @ 122mph
60': 1.47 Stock Factory Control arms.

87 GN
12.05 @ 111, 1.60 60', 15psi launch

Goal: To grow up and be Spiderman
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post #3 of 290 Old 05-23-2016, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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As of now I'm leaning towards a CG Fab hot side, precision 7675, and not sure about cold side yet..possibly just open down pipe. Going to start with getting shortblock looked over than first thing will be deciding on which turbo cams for the TF heads
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post #4 of 290 Old 05-24-2016, 12:59 AM
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Nice build
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post #5 of 290 Old 05-24-2016, 02:19 PM
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Pretty close to my build. I have a precision 76/75, CG fab headers/merge pipe, and custom piping for everything else. You will want the larger 44mm waste gate. I had a single 38, and I've had to add a 2nd gate as I was getting really bad boost creep when I stepped up from the MP70 to the precision 76/75. If you are going to E85 with the 18mm dish, you'll probably want 38cc heads. I have the 44cc heads, but running 11mm dish. What is your main goal for the car beside hp? Street, strip, or a little of both? You will definitely need to invest in a tubular K member, oil filter relocation set up, and you will also need to replumb the PS lines with AN style lines and fittings. Next big decision would be which trans, but that will depend also on what your plans are for the car. Make sure you get cams specific for the TFS heads. Good luck with the build!!
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post #6 of 290 Old 05-24-2016, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 67mustang99 View Post
Pretty close to my build. I have a precision 76/75, CG fab headers/merge pipe, and custom piping for everything else. You will want the larger 44mm waste gate. I had a single 38, and I've had to add a 2nd gate as I was getting really bad boost creep when I stepped up from the MP70 to the precision 76/75. If you are going to E85 with the 18mm dish, you'll probably want 38cc heads. I have the 44cc heads, but running 11mm dish. What is your main goal for the car beside hp? Street, strip, or a little of both? You will definitely need to invest in a tubular K member, oil filter relocation set up, and you will also need to replumb the PS lines with AN style lines and fittings. Next big decision would be which trans, but that will depend also on what your plans are for the car. Make sure you get cams specific for the TFS heads. Good luck with the build!!
Sounds like a nasty build you have yourself there man. Got any pics you can post up?
- What size downpipe did you get from CG Fab? Are you running open downpipe or how did you plumb your exhaust?
- I was planning on the Tial 44 waste gate, so glad to hear you agree
- Again, due to either running E85 or VP100, I was also planning on going with the 38cc heads, which should put me right around 10:1
- This is mostly just a street beast, weekend warrior. Like to have some fun taking it out
- I am still researching which K member to go with, but I am definitely going tubular. Did you have to relocate your oil filter with CG's hotside? I didn't think that was necessary
- I was possibly thinking of completely ditching power steering and going with a FR manual rack, to help cleanup a lot of that junk
- I already have a built 4R70w and a PI triple disc converter from my blower setup. I'll have everything looked over just to make sure there are no issues before putting this back in with the turbo build.
- I am most likely going with either MHS or CMS TF head/cam package, which both of them are aware of the TF specific grinds

Thanks for all the input!

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1997 Mustang GT: New build under construction - Trick Flow head, turbo cam, 76mm turbo coming soon
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post #7 of 290 Old 05-24-2016, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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I was previously running an IW 10% overdrive crank pulley with my blower setup. I sold the 10% overdrive and was planning on getting stock diameter IW crank pulley with the turbo setup now. I previously had the internals balanced with my 10% crank pulley...should I have to get them rebalanced with the smaller regular diameter pulley now?

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post #8 of 290 Old 05-24-2016, 09:25 PM
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Should be a beast!

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post #9 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 09:10 AM
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Wow big change coming!

Look forward to the updates to come!

2000 GT - FRPP Aluminator - TFS 44cc - 9.57:1 comp - TFS cams - V2 Si, 3.125, 10% O/D - Dual GT, dual FPDM, stock feed, stock rails, 60lb inj - MAC LT, Lethal catted X-pipe - BC Auto 4R75W, Circle D 3c - AED
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post #10 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 05:07 PM
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Gonna be FIRST CLASS! for sure. Did you ever figure out what was wrong with the motor or did I just miss it?

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post #11 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Should be a beast!
Time will tell. I'm new to the turbo world so it's a whole new learning curve for sure

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Wow big change coming!

Look forward to the updates to come!
Thanks man, I'll try to post up updates as much as possible. Goal is to possibly have short block to machine shop by end of next week.

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Gonna be FIRST CLASS! for sure. Did you ever figure out what was wrong with the motor or did I just miss it?
Not officially. I have it down to either piston ring or transmission. Should have answer shortly.

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post #12 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 07:59 PM
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I was very happy with the CG fab kit for the most part. The only thing that was a surprise, was having to notch the passenger side frame rail. I run AC and PS, so if you are ditching those, might be a different story. Give them a call, they were great with helping me. If my motor has to come out, I have to drop it out the bottom, but I actually prefer to do it that way now that I've done it a couple of times. Keeps me from scratching up the paint in the engine bay. If you ditch the PS, you will also have to ditch the PB. If you are going to drive it a lot, I'd go ahead and keep them. The only things I used from CG fab were the headers and merge pipe. It came with a 3" starter pipe, and you might able to order it with a larger one but I didn't use it. I had my friends at Pusher Intake fab up all the other pipe work. I have a 4" downpipe with a small Vibrant "muffler." It routes down and ends just past the firewall at the toe board so I can run true street classes. It is super loud though, so you may want to factor in running a full exhaust if that concerns you. All the charge pipe is 3". I have a UPR K member, but any of the big names will work. I have a friend that's dealer for UPR, and can get pretty good prices if you are interested. You will need a run a remote oil filter for sure. I did a TH400 swap, but mine is pretty much a track car. The OD and lockup on the 4R will be better on the streets for sure. I ran CMS turbo 2.5 cams the first time around, but that was before all the findings of the issues with PI cams in TFS heads. New setup has custom L&M cams. Someone else might need to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you can swap the balancer without needing to do anything. I'm pretty sure the balancers are "0" balance, not offset like some pushrod motors. Good luck, you will love it! My old setup with the MPT70 went 9.79 @140 on it's 3rd pass with no timing, no meth, and foot brake. Looking forward seeing what the new setup will do, hopefully I have time to get it finished soon.

Frame notch


Downpipe


Piping


Old setup with Edelbrock intake


New Setup
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post #13 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 09:32 PM
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Two people above mentioned that a oil filter relocation is "needed" with CG Headers. I didn't need to with my CG headers and it was easy to get the filter in/out with no issues.

ks

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79 Pace Car
302, 200hp N2O, Tremec, 9" w/ 4.11's
11.10 @ 122mph
60': 1.47 Stock Factory Control arms.

87 GN
12.05 @ 111, 1.60 60', 15psi launch

Goal: To grow up and be Spiderman
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post #14 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
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Two people above mentioned that a oil filter relocation is "needed" with CG Headers. I didn't need to with my CG headers and it was easy to get the filter in/out with no issues.

ks
Yeah, could just be because mine is an older version is the reason I needed one.
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post #15 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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I was very happy with the CG fab kit for the most part. The only thing that was a surprise, was having to notch the passenger side frame rail. I run AC and PS, so if you are ditching those, might be a different story. Give them a call, they were great with helping me. If my motor has to come out, I have to drop it out the bottom, but I actually prefer to do it that way now that I've done it a couple of times. Keeps me from scratching up the paint in the engine bay. If you ditch the PS, you will also have to ditch the PB. If you are going to drive it a lot, I'd go ahead and keep them. The only things I used from CG fab were the headers and merge pipe. It came with a 3" starter pipe, and you might able to order it with a larger one but I didn't use it. I had my friends at Pusher Intake fab up all the other pipe work. I have a 4" downpipe with a small Vibrant "muffler." It routes down and ends just past the firewall at the toe board so I can run true street classes. It is super loud though, so you may want to factor in running a full exhaust if that concerns you. All the charge pipe is 3". I have a UPR K member, but any of the big names will work. I have a friend that's dealer for UPR, and can get pretty good prices if you are interested. You will need a run a remote oil filter for sure. I did a TH400 swap, but mine is pretty much a track car. The OD and lockup on the 4R will be better on the streets for sure. I ran CMS turbo 2.5 cams the first time around, but that was before all the findings of the issues with PI cams in TFS heads. New setup has custom L&M cams. Someone else might need to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you can swap the balancer without needing to do anything. I'm pretty sure the balancers are "0" balance, not offset like some pushrod motors. Good luck, you will love it! My old setup with the MPT70 went 9.79 @140 on it's 3rd pass with no timing, no meth, and foot brake. Looking forward seeing what the new setup will do, hopefully I have time to get it finished soon.

Frame notch


Downpipe


Piping


Old setup with Edelbrock intake


New Setup
man, that is an absolutely beautiful setup. Thanks again for all the info, if you don't mind I'll probably be reaching out to you quite a bit for input as I go through the build here. I'm actually dropping my shortblock off @ L&M next Friday to start having them inspect internals and the bore. That manifold is absolutely a work of art that you have. Thanks again for all the info

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post #16 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Two people above mentioned that a oil filter relocation is "needed" with CG Headers. I didn't need to with my CG headers and it was easy to get the filter in/out with no issues.

ks
I guess it is hit or miss. I'll ask Caleb about it when I make the call to start the order to see lately if people have been having to relocate. A guy on another forum said there is currently a 4 week turnaround time for his kits

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post #17 of 290 Old 05-25-2016, 10:43 PM
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I guess it is hit or miss. I'll ask Caleb about it when I make the call to start the order to see lately if people have been having to relocate. A guy on another forum said there is currently a 4 week turnaround time for his kits
Good to see that he's staying busy but, ouch! Maybe use this time to plan/purchase the little things that you'll need. Are you going with the SS kit or mild steel? Which k-member will you use? I think his kits are designed around the UPR/QA1 units.

ks

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79 Pace Car
302, 200hp N2O, Tremec, 9" w/ 4.11's
11.10 @ 122mph
60': 1.47 Stock Factory Control arms.

87 GN
12.05 @ 111, 1.60 60', 15psi launch

Goal: To grow up and be Spiderman
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post #18 of 290 Old 05-26-2016, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Good to see that he's staying busy but, ouch! Maybe use this time to plan/purchase the little things that you'll need. Are you going with the SS kit or mild steel? Which k-member will you use? I think his kits are designed around the UPR/QA1 units.

ks
I'm leaning towards mild steel with a coating. And about 99% going with UPR k member setup, and looking up to see what's involved with a FR manual rack/brake setup as well.

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post #19 of 290 Old 05-26-2016, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Game plan is to have everything ripped apart down to the short block soon. Going to bring short block to L&M Race Engines next Friday to have them clean everything, check the bore, and start looking everything over. In a perfect world, I'll just need new bearings and piston rings, and the short block will be good to go. First thing up, I'm running a stock oil pan. Now would be the time to upgrade. I'm not normally a fan of MMR, but anybody running their 7 qt with windage tray? I'm only running a stock pan now with a stock 4v oil pump and a 15/16 pickup. Will I be able to use my same 15/16" pickup with this pan without any issues? Do you guys think the wind screen would be worth the extra coin? I also plan to upgrade my stock gears in the 4v pump to TSS billet gears

http://www.modularmotorsportsracing....roducts_id=309

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post #20 of 290 Old 05-27-2016, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Got a lot done tonight. Just about ready to bring to machine shop, planning on bringing next Friday. Everything looks like brand new, perfect condition. One cylinder has an extremely minor score to the wall, which I don't think is anything. Thinking transmission might have been my issue this whole time.















Maybe a little something going on here, but I doubt it:



About ready for machine shop:



I'm posting up some sweet heads/cams/valve spring setup for sale if anybody is interested!

There are some good memorial day sales going on this weekend. Think I'm going to pull the trigger on MMR oil pan with windage tray, 4v TSS billet gears for my oil pump, and stock diameter IW crank pulley

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post #21 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Has anybody ever heard of or run Boundary billet gears or their pump? It looks like some pretty impressive stuff, and actually a good bit cheaper than TSS. I don't care about saving $100 or whatever over TSS, but was just curious.

Ford V8 Modular Motor ? Boundary

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post #22 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 09:42 AM
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Personally I would go with TSS. Friend of mine has issues with Bounty gears a while back. Might be better now, but $100 is better then thousands of dollars if you have an issue with it. Glad to hear everything looks good inside the motor. What issues were you having before?
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post #23 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Do you see any issues just going with billet gears in my current 4v housing? Well car was down like 200hp last time on dyno. Did compression and leak down with no real obvious concerns. At this point think it may be trans/converter
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post #24 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 09:58 AM
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I would say if it doesn't have a bunch of miles on it, then go ahead. You can buy a brand new 4V pump and pickup tube for $100
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post #25 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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I bought this pump and pickup for this last build. So might have 8,000 miles total.
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post #26 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Does that one cylinder wall look more scored than it should to anyone?
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post #27 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 05:08 PM
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I run this oil pan.
http://apocalypseperformance.com/pro...t-strip-t-pan/

Boundary Ford V8 Modular Motor Billet Oil Pump ? Apocalypse Performance

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post #28 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Were you able to run a stock 15/16" pickup with that and it sat down low enough in the pan? I'm reading with the MMR that I may need a spacer to get it down:

MMR Billet Oil Pick up Tube spacer 4.6 , 5.0 , 5.4 Ford Modular [403351] - $24.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the Worlds Fastest Modular Engines

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post #29 of 290 Old 05-28-2016, 11:55 PM
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I ran the mmr pan also. You can make your own spacer. The mmr pan took 10 quarts to be at the full mark.
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post #30 of 290 Old 06-01-2016, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Should have TSS billet oil pump gears, stock diameter IW crank pulley, and MMR oil pan and windage tray here shortly.

Game plan is to have the short block at machine shop on Friday. In a perfect world, can re-use my cobra crank, Manley H beam rods, Manley 18cc pistons, and all ARP hardware. Hoping to just need to have everything cleaned, re-honed, new rings/bearings, and than reassembly. With the new setup I'm planning on some pretty high boost from the turbo. What are your guys thoughts on piston rings? Been doing research and I'm liking the Total Seal AP stainless rings.

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post #31 of 290 Old 06-03-2016, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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So today got the internals out to get a good look at what was going on. Here are some carnage pics for you guys:









#3 piston skirt:


#8 piston skirt:


So, it's somewhat of a relief that I've finally come to some sort of issue that was going on. It looks like what was clogged into the oil pickup tube was pieces of rear main seal. With some of the micro welding going on between the #3 piston and the cylinder walls it looks like overheating was obviously an issue. I brought the block and internals to my machinist, and he thinks we'll most likely have to re-bore and go .030 over this time around, don't think we can just hone the walls out. Obviously, I'll need new pistons as well. I was running Manley Platinum Series 18cc pistons, but am considering going to a set of Diamond pistons. With the new power goals of 800+, do you guys have any recommendation on what kind of piston I should be looking at? I think I'm going to run Total Seal AP rings this time around as well. Also, I'm shooting for 10:1 compression. With a non-pi block and TF heads, would it matter how I went about getting to 10:1? Meaning, if I run 18cc pistons with the TF 38cc heads, or vice versa, if I went with say a 15cc piston and the TF 44cc heads? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

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post #32 of 290 Old 06-04-2016, 12:59 AM
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I have 19cc diamond pistons and 38cc TF heads.

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post #33 of 290 Old 06-04-2016, 01:04 AM
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Ouch! Hate seeing things like that but it's good that you tore it down.

ks
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79 Pace Car
302, 200hp N2O, Tremec, 9" w/ 4.11's
11.10 @ 122mph
60': 1.47 Stock Factory Control arms.

87 GN
12.05 @ 111, 1.60 60', 15psi launch

Goal: To grow up and be Spiderman
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post #34 of 290 Old 06-04-2016, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
I have 19cc diamond pistons and 38cc TF heads.
With the 19cc diamond pistons, 38cc heads, on a 97 romeo block...should that net me 10:1?

How do you like the pistons? Did you just go with one of their off the shelf pistons for the 4.6 or did you go custom? Any coating or upgraded wrist pins? Which rings are you running?

And just to confirm...with the TF heads I shouldn't need to get these new pistons fly cut correct? I'll probably end up going with a custom grind cam and don't know the exact specs yet, but they won't be any crazy race only cams. Because of the offset valves, should I be good?

1997 Mustang GT
1997 Mustang GT: New build under construction - Trick Flow head, turbo cam, 76mm turbo coming soon
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post #35 of 290 Old 06-04-2016, 11:55 AM
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Oh man. That sucks but at least the reason is known for the loss of power. I'd still get the 38cc heads with standard .035" gaskets and work the compression with new Pistons. The larger bore will effect how much dish you will need to get 10:1 static compression.

You still having the transmission rebuilt?

2000 GT - FRPP Aluminator - TFS 44cc - 9.57:1 comp - TFS cams - V2 Si, 3.125, 10% O/D - Dual GT, dual FPDM, stock feed, stock rails, 60lb inj - MAC LT, Lethal catted X-pipe - BC Auto 4R75W, Circle D 3c - AED
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