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Old 09-05-2011, 04:21 PM   #1
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FFRP coyote 5.0 crate engine swaps "suck" ( FINALLY FIXED Dec23/2011)

I didn't mince any words with the title, I have a SN95 and a coyote 5.0 crate engine install and yes the swap sucks big time.
In one word the "driveablility" . It SUCKS. Driving in normal or heavy traffic as a commuter car is impossible , the engine stalls at every stop.The engine at 20 to 40 mph runs rough, it bucks , surges , backfires with light throttle and after 5 months of trying to resolve these issues ,they are all still there . FFRP has not helped at all, their suggestions and fixes have not worked. The technicians don't have the answers to fix. The Ford Racing engineers don't have the answers to fix . SCT don't have the answers. Nobody has the answers or resolutions to fix my complaints with the driveability.

This swap was a complete dissapointment for me and for the most part a total failure in context with FFRP to market the coyote 5.0 crate engine as a swap in any vehicle that would even come close to a vehicle that can be used as a DD or commuter vehicle. In my case the
coyote SN95 swap SUCKS. I can't think of a better word for the completed swap considering the expense of components , the difficulties of installation etc . I regret starting the swap and originally wanted to do a Windsor 427 SN95 swap, but friends said the coyote 5.0 would give me driveability similar to a 2011 production Mustang and would regret the driveability of a Windsor 427 as a DD. Well, at this point I wish I had chosen the latter

I have run out of resources to draw from that would may have fixes for the driveability issues that I outlined. If they did not exist and the driveability was reasonable , even a little bit close to a 2011 production Mustang, then I would consider the coyote 5.0 swap to be a success . The swap was not easy, the components not cheap , labor is labor and there was lots of it. It's not like I expected big returns with no investment. I ponied up the dollars and did the install myself at my home garage and purchased all the necessary components that FFRP suggested to resolve the issues but to no avail. . My tuner says that I have done all I can . There are no codes. He road tested the vehicle and did analyzer scans and reports that there is nothing that will cause the issues that exist. Opinion is that the PCM and software program may be the problem, just his opinion.

It goes on and on, for 5 months the engine is no better than it was after first start, in fact it is getting worse, that's another story ..........
If the driveability issues did not exist, the swap would be the engine swap of the century, small block, light , huge head flow, high compression , pump gas compliant, potential upgrading, etc etc, why would someone not want to do the swap ?

My opinion .......... FFRP coyote 5.0 crate engine swaps "suck"


.

Last edited by golddust; 12-24-2011 at 02:59 PM. Reason: new information
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Old 09-05-2011, 04:30 PM   #2
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Have you ever contacted Bob Kurgan about your issues ? I'm pretty sure his shop did a Coyote into Fox swap a while back and from everything I've read, the car performs flawlessly.

I feel for you. To have done the work and spent the money and end up with something undriveable would indeed suck.

Edit: I think Kurgan used a donor car engine/harness/& computer whereas you used the FRPP "kit". Maybe the kit computers/electronics are different than production pieces.

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Old 09-05-2011, 05:52 PM   #3
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I agree with the above. I have only seen 1 coyote swapped car in person, but it ran perfectly.
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Old 09-05-2011, 06:37 PM   #4
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JMO, but I think with the $ spent someone owes to at least double check the computer/software for issues that could be present. Hace you asked FRPP to swap out or run whatever kind of diagnostics they would run to check function of software / hardware? I feel for ya. Hope things work out.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:49 PM   #5
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theres one down here too, a coyote into a 4-eye Fox with a t56. Runs fantastic, never had any issues.

i would def go over the wiring again and even swap out the ecu, and def call Bob
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:34 PM   #6
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I bought the blower off a Bullitt that was just feature in MMFF, car got hydrolocked and the owner wanted a 5.0 Coyote instead of a built motor. A shop here in Tampa did the swap with alot of custom work before custom headers and oil pans were manufactured at all.

Car was custom tuned by EFI Unlimited and put down 400hp and drives like a stock 2011 does. There was several issues that the FRPP control pack needs, such as a Return style fuel system and other wiring exceptions but the car is like like it should have been built in 2001!
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stallion mang View Post
JMO, but I think with the $ spent someone owes to at least double check the computer/software for issues that could be present. Hace you asked FRPP to swap out or run whatever kind of diagnostics they would run to check function of software / hardware? I feel for ya. Hope things work out.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:48 PM   #8
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The problem is there but Ford Racing is not admitting it.

The one swap that was highlighted in 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords mentioned the stalling. I also know that they had major issues - car would not rev into high rpms so Ford Racing had them try a few things and then they ended up replacing the PCM. Even then there was the stalling issue.

I have the coyote in my 1997 and the issues with doing the swap are pretty much outlined in my other thread. Pretty much normal stuff from what i can tell except for the gas pedal attachment and some faulty installation guide that FRPP updated with a picture and they changed the original 45 psi fuel pressure to 55 psi (which i now found out the 2011 mustang gt has as well so that makes sense).

My car put down 406 rwhp (after leaning it out by lowering fuel pressure, but i want that done another way instead since 55 seems right on the money for 460 fhp and 32.8 injectors; it was running rich), otherwise it put down 395 at 55psi.

But I had that stalling issue that Chris and Monty of SCT and JMS CHip have found a solution for and he discovered this working on that car that had the swap for the magazine mentioned already - of course I am stuck with getting the rest of the driveabilty issues worked on from a far with tuning via email - there is stumble after sitting at a stop light with normal application of gas from stop, just at the beginning. Another weird issue is when WOT on first and second - this doesnt happen everytime- it feels like timing is pulled or clutch is slipping - which it is not - but something is going on. I cant rip the tires loose in first without maybe raising rpms and then letting clutch out fast, but it does break loose in second. Just seems very weak low in first gear. Odd. I have 3.73 gears with T-45.

NO codes and no check engine light on key on engine start so I am not even sure this lame computer management system even works correctly. I am getting pissed with Ford Racing too - they are defensive and refuse to do anything - they say you need stock airbox on there and stock headers. What a bunch of bull####.

Again - engine is nice and it is strong - few issues that does test our resolve on liking this swap. The main problem is Ford Racing not owning up to something. And with no help unless you put on the stock airbox and stock headers, which at this point AINT going to happen.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get them to play ball? I can return the engine but then I eat so much money and I really like it but it is like top secret any info on this thing. Kind of weird for customer service but maybe they are worried about legal issues?

I guess we can send PCM in to get checked, or throttle body? Or some sensors? I am trying to get some software now to do datalogging. I could not get my SCT X3 to read #### - only showed one reading and it was not accurate I do not think.

THere is even this video of a guy doing a follow up to the Horsepower TV program where they swapped a coyote into this hot rod. In it you can see when he stops near camera and talks - his car stalled and he glanced at the dash for a second as if to say WTF, but then finishes what he had to say and then starts the car and goes on with the demo. Funny he never turned ignition off to stop the engine. Another one with stalling issue. LOL. 2:16 into this video you can see.
Factory Five Tests the 5.0L Coyote Engine

He never really gets into it. My stalling issues were only when you got into it and then put the clutch in. But got worse where it would happen pretty often unless you took it easy. These issues are gone but there is some issue down low and something else going on - not as strong as it needs to be in lower end and then wham it spikes power from 4000 on up to 7000.

Peak HP numbers are not the whole story.

Last edited by RedSnake97; 09-06-2011 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:59 PM   #9
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I agree with the above. I have only seen 1 coyote swapped car in person, but it ran perfectly.
What exactly do you mean? Did you see it run hard? Or was it driven with some spurts of WOT and then mostly normal driving around a block or two? That means nothing.

WHen I had the tune from FRPP, it ran fine if i just drove normal like any other car but when you did WOT runs and ripped on it, that is when you notice weird behavior.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:39 PM   #10
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Ok. So I have found that this is simply a calibration issue. If you use a different CAI then the stock airbox you need to get a tune. I knew that from the begining but everyone seemed to act like this was totally unique. It does still seem like an odd problem and everyone was having issues figuring it out. Even some SCT tuners didnt have the support they needed to get the updates they needed to tune this PCM. Plus the confusion with the fuel rail psi - is it 45 or 55.

I guess Ford Racing could have explained to me the same thing. Like "Your tuner might not have what he needs to even see what is going on, these 2011 computers are new." Something. Just a little clue that it might take time for them to get up to speed. I do not know but I sure feel like I got the run around for what is just a "normal" calibration issue.
FORD RACING GOT A DECENT AMOUNT OF MONEY TO NOT BE SO HANDS OFF SORRY YOU ARE NOT USING OUR AIRBOX KIND OF SUPPORT. How about a iittle info next time? Especially when we reach out. Maybe a tuner we can call. Lame.

ALso what about the VSS not being used in the PCM? THey didnt even answer me directly - they said you have everything you need hooked up in the installation notes.

Anyway - Brian of EFI-Unlimited set me straight in another thread where I asked if anyone else is using the engine controls pack from the coyote crate and what do they think about it.

Im still waiting for my own tuner to get what he needs so he can tune this PCM on the dyno. Supposedly SCT still has not sent him what he needs. In the meantime I had to pay Monty from JMS CHip (who supposedly talked with Chris Johnson) money for "the fix".

I sure do not mind paying people for what they make a living doing but making it vague purposely and calling it "the fix" just to get a few hundred dollars makes me pissed. SOmeone could have come out like Brian did (but when I initially was asking what was up) and said it is just calibration issue and not a problem with the Ford Racing strategy that needs a fix.

Geez. Just a little disappointed for what was mainly a smooth swap.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:37 PM   #11
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I hope it gets worked out. I think the sheer newness of it makes this a risky attempt for a DD, unless you literally pulled everything out of a 2011-12. I remember when people were doing LS1 swaps 10 years ago and the choices were either run a 100% factory F-body harness/computer or use a 100% aftermarket EFI system (which works quite well), such as F.A.S.T. Now in 2011, they have it a lot more sorted out. But it's 10 years later.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:15 PM   #12
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To Redsnake .......Are you using the tune from JMS and it still stalls ? I thought that they had the fix and you were satisfied with the tune, so you are no longer using the FFRP tune and it still stalls with the JMS ? I contacted JMS , they said that i had to install a cone filter air intake and i am in the process of doing that right now . But if they don't have the " FIX " , i wont bother , even though i bought all the components. I just sent an email to FFRP for a fix in the simplest terms and if they don't pony up with a tangible solution, i will carve a little trail into FFRP until i get an answer .
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:27 PM   #13
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I hope it gets worked out. I think the sheer newness of it makes this a risky attempt for a DD, unless you literally pulled everything out of a 2011-12.
.
I agree 100 x's , the production mustang PCM supports 600 functions, the coyote crate PCM supports less than a dozen, so it's little wonder that it will even start and run the alternator and A/C .

WOT is open looped, it does what it's supposed to do by virtue of open loop. However on the way up to WOT and back down is a crap shoot and it's just that as far as i'm concerned . FFRP's claim to fame for the crate is it is marketed as a hot rod engine. They likely know it stalls a lot amongst other issues, and think if you really want driveability , you should get the rest of the mustang


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Old 09-13-2011, 02:03 PM   #14
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.

To Redsnake .......Are you using the tune from JMS and it still stalls ?...
Hell no it doesn't stall with the JMS tune. It fixed the stalling issue. That was the main thing. The JMS tune is one they made for this engine with an aftermarket CAI. They did say it works best with the CAI kits made for the 2011+ Mustang GT but I am running a custom tube that is just about as generic as it gets and nice as it gets without having all that extra air box or curtain around it. It is a cone filter.

Really is odd this is just a calibration thing but hey what do I really know.

Another note:

What fuel pressure are you running? I had to learn the hard way that my tuner knows more than me. LOL. No seriously - I knew he did know what he was up to but I thought my fuel pressure should be put back to the 55 psi just because of a few minor driveablity issues - some stuttering which fixed itself somehow and may have been due to AC compressor - my tuner had done wideband monitoring on a dyno and adjust the fuel pressure to make the AF more stoich at WOT. I have a liquid filled guage and when I later looked at it - it seemed to be down near 40. I know they said they would lower it but I didnt know they meant to be near 40. Anyway - long story short I did monitoring and the Short FT and Long FT were chasing rich condition when I moved it back up to 55. I have since put it back to 42. It is still a little rich which is odd. I need to really get a more accurate reading with a seperate tool. I want to put it back on the dyno to double check WOT since I mucked with the regulator.

That all was with the JMS tune.

I only doubted the fuel pressure due to a few things - I thought there was a better way to adjust then via the regulator - maybe in the tune itself. Plus the calculator for injectors says for the hp and the injector size that 55 psi sounds right. Also the great fricken guys over at FRPP tech support were adament about the 55 psi. LOL. They know ####. They were of no help.

If you look at the other thread where Brian responded about the tuning of the 2011+ cars you will see that it is going to be a learning curve for some.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #15
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I'm back to 40 psi too , but i don't notice any difference with 40 or 55
So you bought an SCT tuner and JMS sent a tune to your tuner, easy install right? What did JMS charge you for ? They told me they needed $100 for the tune plus the SCT tuner and $150 to unlock the PCM . What's that all about, did you pay for an unlock fee ? The techs at FFRP have stated on more than one occasion that the PCM is NOT locked .. I have to question the unlock fee from JMS, if i do go with their tune, i will ask then about that . Problem is with the tuners , and SCT tech dept, including the techs at FFRP , i have been given so much bafflegab, i don't believe much of anything from those guys any more . My rich AFR's disappeared when i fitted the factory air box but the stalling is still there . I wonder what is in JMS tune that fixes the stalls . I would accept the other driveabilities at this point if it did not stall . I sent an email to FFRP and asked about the stalling issues , I mentioned stalling a couple of dozen times and how to fix even more times with no other questions and so far , no answer.
I guess i'm off their radar, so up the hill i go

Last edited by golddust; 09-13-2011 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:01 AM   #16
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.
I'm back to 40 psi too , but i don't notice any difference with 40 or 55
So you bought an SCT tuner and JMS sent a tune to your tuner, easy install right? What did JMS charge you for ? They told me they needed $100 for the tune plus the SCT tuner and $150 to unlock the PCM . What's that all about, did you pay for an unlock fee ? The techs at FFRP have stated on more than one occasion that the PCM is NOT locked .. I have to question the unlock fee from JMS, if i do go with their tune, i will ask then about that . Problem is with the tuners , and SCT tech dept, including the techs at FFRP , i have been given so much bafflegab, i don't believe much of anything from those guys any more . My rich AFR's disappeared when i fitted the factory air box but the stalling is still there . I wonder what is in JMS tune that fixes the stalls . I would accept the other driveabilities at this point if it did not stall . I sent an email to FFRP and asked about the stalling issues , I mentioned stalling a couple of dozen times and how to fix even more times with no other questions and so far , no answer.
I guess i'm off their radar, so up the hill i go
Yeah that is what I paid. That is for the fix and the tune for performance gains. Well worth it. THey will work with you to get any issues worked out. No extra charge. Just keep giving them feedback/data logs/dyno pull info, etc.

I ran it on a dyno and it was at 387 rwhp SAE and it was rich. So they lowered the pressure to 40, I think - I messed with it thinking some minor issue was due to it but now I put it back but I need to double check it. - I have heard a liquid filled guage cannot be trusted due to temps. But I did it cold and when I checked it before i raised it, it was cold too. So I hope i have it back where the shop put it after doing the dyno runs to adjust. But anyway, when they lowered it, it gained 10 to 397 rwhp SAE. So it seemed to be running strong. Unfortunetly I do not have a run before the tune was applied.

So you are running stock airbox and it stalls still? Ha - FRPP said not having the stock airbox was what was causing the stalling. Did you chop it up at all? Or is it untouched?

Yeah FRPP should tell us what they did to compensate for no VSS.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:58 AM   #17
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JMS want me to fabricate another cone filter intake system and let them know the dimensions and distance from the MAF to the TB . They dont seem too interested in doing the tune with the factory air box. The air flow from the filter element to the TB is 100 % unaltered factory .I had to trim the lowest part of the box to fit inside the fender apron. I did have contact with the Ford engineer a while back and he OK'd the trimming that i had in mind, his only caution was to keep the air intake at the bottom of the air box away from the radiator fan flow.

So, did the tune from JMS fix the stalling completely ? and what about the bucking , surging rough at light throttle driving in traffic ? did the tune correct those issues ?
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:18 PM   #18
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JMS want me to fabricate another cone filter intake system and let them know the dimensions and distance from the MAF to the TB . They dont seem too interested in doing the tune with the factory air box. The air flow from the filter element to the TB is 100 % unaltered factory .I had to trim the lowest part of the box to fit inside the fender apron. I did have contact with the Ford engineer a while back and he OK'd the trimming that i had in mind, his only caution was to keep the air intake at the bottom of the air box away from the radiator fan flow.

So, did the tune from JMS fix the stalling completely ? and what about the bucking , surging rough at light throttle driving in traffic ? did the tune correct those issues ?
Yeah I would not want the stock airbox. I do not know why FRPP didn't offer a better setup then this - I guess they thought the airbox was good - it is fricken bulky if you ask me and who needs those odd shaped things that off shoot from the tube and box - Helmholtz resonator's - isnt that just for sound?

Anyway you can see my setup which is working well - maybe a little rich condition going on that can be remedied. But I have seen it flow up to 55 #/min. At least that is what the data logging showed.
At first we had a shorter tube and then it was a concern about fan wash affecting the MAF. So the tube itself was change for a longer one to put it over where my battery was located.


If you follow these instructions like it is in the guide then you can't go wrong.
1) Flow Profile: the MAF sensor should be located on a straight section of zip tube where the flow profile is generally uniform. If the sensor cannot be located on a straight section put the sensor on the outside radius of the zip tube so the sensor is located in the higher flow velocity area.

2) Flow Area: Keep the cross sectional area of the MAF sensor tube as close as possible to the cross sectional area of the original induction system.

3) Flow quality: minimize flow direction changes and maintain smooth tubing to minimize air flow disturbances and turbulence.

4) Flow pulsation: install sensor at least 6 to 8 inches upstream of the throttle body.

5) Transient performance: installing the sensor too far upstream of the throttle body (>24 inches) will result in transient lean/rich spikes due to the additional amount of time required for the measured air flow to travel from the
MAF sensor to the intake manifold.

6) MAF sensor contamination: A) install sensor in upper half of cross sectional area to minimize possibility of condensation coming in contact with the MAF sensor element. In other words, if a clock is superimposed on a
cross section of the zip tube, the sensor should be installed somewhere equal to or above the 9:00 and 3:00 positions. Most OEM applications have the sensor located at the 9:00 or 3:00 location. B) Sensor must be installed downstream of air filter and upstream of blow-by inlet. Ideally, sensor should be located 3 diameters upstream of the blow-by inlet.

Yeah the distance from TB to MAF sensor I guess is very important. They spent a lot of time getting this tune right - so they are trying to ensure it is as close as it gets to actually tuning your car on the dyno. You have the same engine and same PCM but maybe not same air intake so that becomes critical.

FRPP tech support did mention you. They said they even had a guy who had chopped up the bottom of the airbox and he was having issues - they used you as example stating how important it was for their airbox to be used unaltered.

I call BS on that. If you have the airbox in there and it is still stalling - it is still odd to me. Can you take a picture of how much you did change it?
BTW - i posted pics of my Air Intake setup - the short version and long final version in that other thread.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:31 PM   #19
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FRPP tech support did mention you. They said they even had a guy who had chopped up the bottom of the airbox and he was having issues - they used you as example stating how important it was for their airbox to be used unaltered.

I call BS on that. If you have the airbox in there and it is still stalling - it is still odd to me. Can you take a picture of how much you did change it?
BTW - i posted pics of my Air Intake setup - the short version and long final version in that other thread.



This was FFRP's idea and i followed it exactly ...... They said to do a test with the air box attached and fit to the engine . Then to remove the hood because it was too high to close, i did just that . I taped it to secure it in position and drove it at night to test. It did resolve some of the rough running etc but it STILL STALLED AT EVERY STOP with the full unaltered factory air box that comes with the crate engine control pack. I emailed the techy what i had done and he relayed it to the engineer and his reply was only this " Was the A/C running during the test ?" That was all he asked or offered, it took a month to get this lame duck reply, so it was obvious that they distanced themselves from the stalling issue

The air box is installed at the moment and i don't have pix but when i remove it, i will do up some pix and send them to you

I got approval from their engineering dept if it was ok to cut the bottom of the air box and he said that it would be ok.

The problem with the techs , is that they forget what was said .

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Old 09-21-2011, 07:26 AM   #20
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Sounds like a better approach for others might be buying the crate engine without ecu -- and using a stand-alone ecu from MegaSquirt or AEM (for example).
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:35 AM   #21
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Golddust - sent you a PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #22
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WOW ! Good news finally !
After dozens of emails to a certain technician at FFRP, I sent him several examples from this and other forums that there is a stalling issue with coyote swaps. The technician forwarded these examples to a Ford engineer in the coyote design group . With a couple of emails to the engineer, I gave a detailed brief of the stalling . He said that he would draft a circuit that would interface the OSS with the coyote dashpot pin in the PCM .

I seems that they are going to follow up with a coyote/fox install and attempt to resolve the stalling with a running vehicle . I kinda have an idea who it may be as I believe FFP has an existing arrangement with this company that is or plans to market coyote swaps as a kit

Hopefully FFRP will follow through with the investigation of the stalling come up with quick fix

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Old 10-15-2011, 02:18 AM   #23
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This month's issue of 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords has a SN95 Bullit with a 5.0 Coyote Swap. Looks like he used a different engine management system though.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
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WOW ! Good news finally !
After dozens of emails to a certain technician at FFRP, I sent him several examples from this and other forums that there is a stalling issue with coyote swaps. The technician forwarded these examples to a Ford engineer in the coyote design group . With a couple of emails to the engineer, I gave a detailed brief of the stalling . He said that he would draft a circuit that would interface the OSS with the coyote dashpot pin in the PCM .

I seems that they are going to follow up with a coyote/fox install and attempt to resolve the stalling with a running vehicle . I kinda have an idea who it may be as I believe FFP has an existing arrangement with this company that is or plans to market coyote swaps as a kit

Hopefully FFRP will follow through with the investigation of the stalling come up with quick fix
Amazing. I cannot believe it. So this engineer is finally admitting that maybe the strategy he designed didnt work all that well without the input of vehicle speed?

So what is with this - what do other engine management systems do? Is it always required?

By the way - did you ever follow up with Monty at JMS CHip? He difinitely figured out what to do to workaround it. I have yet to go back on the dyno though after this new update he gave me in order to fix some driveablity issues. Car drives great now - even in stop in go where it doesnt belong. It is well behaved. Now I hope it didnt get this way at the risk to the power curve on the high end.

Are you getting your car tune regardless? That is after the update from FRP? I assume it will require that the PCM get flashed again for the new functionality or input for dashpot.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:17 PM   #25
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This month's issue of 5.0 Mustang and Super Fords has a SN95 Bullit with a 5.0 Coyote Swap. Looks like he used a different engine management system though.
I am begining to realize how little these magazine put into the details of their articles. I guess I have to admit at least they hint to things - like they did hint they had a stalling issue too, on one of the coyote swaps they have covered.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:58 AM   #26
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Yeah, I'll admit .. it's more of a photo-gallery with captions than a technical article ... but at least you know others are out there doing it too!
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:08 PM   #27
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Maybe its you that started the hubub. Had a tech call the other day about the fuel pressure change and he asked questions. Several times he emphasized things would not work right with any bolts-ons unless I got a custom tune with them. He made sure I was going to use the stock air box, which I will at first. Also said the position of the MAF was very important. Probably just got off the phone with you

SN95 must be harder then the Fox. Of course I dont have the motor in but everything is done. Thought the K-member swap was the hardest, and have 8-10 hours in just wiring but not to bad. Probably 25-30 total at this point. Waiting for spring to install motor hoping I can catch a used one.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:13 PM   #28
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I am begining to realize how little these magazine put into the details of their articles. I guess I have to admit at least they hint to things - like they did hint they had a stalling issue too, on one of the coyote swaps they have covered.
You have to look at all aspects here. The actual magazines don't hit the stands for maybe 2 months after the actual article is written. I'm sure most issues are resolved by then and there's no reason to worry people to the point of not buying the products (magazines make money on advertisers, ya know). Magazines are the way they are for a reason.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:26 PM   #29
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Mustang Forums at StangNet - View Single Post - StangNet '11 5.0 Notch Project
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:32 PM   #30
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It's my SN95 in the article, and we "hinted" at the stalling issue on a couple occasions, and probably in two different installation segments. Even if something is hinted, it's mentioned. We don't want to beat someone over the head with potential issues. There are initial issues with every engine swap, not just a Coyote swap. We are working with Ford Racing to try and get these issues solved. Plus, one of the engineers actually owns a swap car so hopefully the problems/issues people are experiencing with this swap will get solved sooner than later. Just remember, most of the engineers within Ford and Ford Racing aren't like you and I. You and I would never use a factory airbox, but that's what they have at their disposal so that's what they recommend. And we did use the Ford Racing Controls Pack PCM. So, in short, be patient because these things won't be solved overnight.
Golddust - I actually experienced the issues you describe in your initial post the other night. However, I got home, shut the car off, cycled the key to make sure the fuel system was working properly, and started her back up. It has ran perfect ever since. That tells me it could be a fuel issue with your car, I dunno. Wierd.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:34 PM   #31
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BTW, my car is a daily-driver with the Coyote swap, as well.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #32
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It's my SN95 in the article, and we "hinted" at the stalling issue on a couple occasions, and probably in two different installation segments. Even if something is hinted, it's mentioned. We don't want to beat someone over the head with potential issues. There are initial issues with every engine swap, not just a Coyote swap. We are working with Ford Racing to try and get these issues solved. Plus, one of the engineers actually owns a swap car so hopefully the problems/issues people are experiencing with this swap will get solved sooner than later. Just remember, most of the engineers within Ford and Ford Racing aren't like you and I. You and I would never use a factory airbox, but that's what they have at their disposal so that's what they recommend. And we did use the Ford Racing Controls Pack PCM. So, in short, be patient because these things won't be solved overnight.
Golddust - I actually experienced the issues you describe in your initial post the other night. However, I got home, shut the car off, cycled the key to make sure the fuel system was working properly, and started her back up. It has ran perfect ever since. That tells me it could be a fuel issue with your car, I dunno. Wierd.


Leno?

Just kidding. He lives in Cali.

I understand about what caution one should have when dealing with an issue, especially when you are so visible in a market and fair play is required. Do not bite the hand that feeds and all. But I was just saying... that I would like to see more info in these articles in general but I may be asking for too much, who knows. I bought around 3 or 4 mags in a row each about the coyote swap and just not enough info on the most important part. Eh. I was not trying to trash them.

Ford Racing and their tech support line, that is another story, acting like we are making #### up and they want us to jump through hoops just to prove we are seeing this issue, and no one else is having that issue except those that are not doing things right. I am all past this anyway, but I do want to have a solution that I do not want to have to rely on "specialists" or just the two or three people that can work around the "calibration" issue.

Sure the swap is "new" (not anymore in my mind) but the fact is people are buying it only to run into this problem and no one, well not until now, was admitting it was really something unique going on here. People with years of experience were shrugging their shoulders.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:23 PM   #33
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I received an email today from my favorite FFRP technician and he says the calibration engineer and the electrical engineer are working on a schematic to tie the OSS into the system. Now that is good news , also it is comforting to have emails from FFRP that a solution is in progress rather than me emailing them twice a week trying to convince them that a problem does in fact exist.

Maybe I'll have the fix before I break out the snowplow ..........

To Chin, not sure what similar problem that you experienced, I have had so many but If you are referring to the rough running , like 3 or 4 cylinders misfiring and will not clear up with any throttle setting, then I'm not sure what the cause of this is, my tuner was with me on a road test , with an analyzer attached, and he said the MAF readings were all over the map and that fuel was being pumped into the engine at a rate of 75 % throttle when in fact we were stopped with the engine at idle. We unhooked the MAF , no difference with anlalyzer readings and still ran on 4 cylinders with huge rich mixture. We plugged in the MAF connection and unplugged with no change in operation. I shut the engine off and checked the various electrical connections and fuel connections expecting a fault somewhere but everything seems ok. The tuner felt that there may be a thermal switch in the PCM to protect the PCM from overheating etc. The water temp was normal , although it was a hot day .. We talked for about 5 minutes and I restarted the engine, the problem was gone. It ran exactly the same as it did an hour earlier. I drove home , it ran ok, parked it and moved it a couple of hours later after a cool down . The exhaust sounded like there was a dozen of one inch ball bearings in the exhaust. I later removed one of the cats and the internals had grenaded , likely from the rich fuel mixture earlier in the day

I called FFRP with the problem , inquiring if there was a thermal overload switch in the PCM and the electrical engineer said that there was not a switch ....... I have had two other occurrences with this problem, one where i looked under the hood expecting a note on the intake with the solution all typed out, but no , there was nothing. I shut the hood and when i tried to open the coyote turd mustang door, i had accidently hit the lock button and could not get in the car, looking at the keys in the ignition, just wasn't my day
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:45 AM   #34
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I try to be as detailed as I can in my tech articles. Hopefully, people are going to try the same stuff we're trying in the magazine, and I don't want you guys scratching your heads wondering how we were able to do such-and-such. That only hurts you guys because you guys most likely don't have the resources at hand that we do. Plus, it makes us look stupid, and I am not a fan of making myself look stupid. However, things do fall through the cracks, and my memory is not exactly a trap door, some things do escape. LOL For the Coyote swap, I tried to retain as much information, and ask as many questions as I could to make sure I was explaining everything correctly. Also, we are limited on space in some instances so sometimes we have to be brief. Some of the captions for the Coyote swap were way too long, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything.
As for problems with the swap, the biggest problem I've seen so far is that when we try to explain something over the phone to someone that's thousands of miles away, and they've never experienced the problem, there's not much they can do. Is that a good situation? Of course not, but it is what it is. If the tech guys haven't experienced the problem, they're not going to know how to fix it, either. Most likely, they're going to be grasping at straws as to how to fix the problem, but in the end, they really have no clue how to fix your issues.
Also, the problems that arise from car to car could in fact be wiring issues, or an improper ground, fuel delivery issues, etc. A tech guy who's never done a Coyote swap is probably not going to be familiar with the problem because he's never experienced it, or done the swap himself.
Hopefully, it sounds like Ford Racing is aware of the issues we're experiencing, and are on the case. I know my car is a royal blast to drive, and everyone who sees that engine under the hood of my '94 Cobra is blown away. It would be a shame to have that engine available for early cars, but have issues that keep them from running at their best. I am confident Ford Racing will get it straight.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:24 PM   #35
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Hopefully, it sounds like Ford Racing is aware of the issues we're experiencing, and are on the case. I know my car is a royal blast to drive, and everyone who sees that engine under the hood of my '94 Cobra is blown away. It would be a shame to have that engine available for early cars, but have issues that keep them from running at their best. I am confident Ford Racing will get it straight.

I agree that it is a fun car to drive when you get on WOT . In fact, it's downright scary, the car can be a little difficult to control. I recently tried a different make of fuel/octane rating and it felt like another 40 hp was added. FFRP claims their tune with higher than 91 octane makes more HP than the production Mustang. The torque is awesome and pulls real hard with the engine revs so quickly with fast shifting , makes you want to go forever. It isn't until almost going into 4th gear that the car is getting under control. The front lifts real hard and stays there, so steering is not the best and the rear is always with some wheelspin , either a lot or at least some making it more difficult to control.

Just had to give a little detail as to what the SN95 is like with a coyote and make no mistake , i just love it and must give Ford credit for this engine. It cost me a lot of money and it is worth every dime at least WOT . Kinda makes the DD driveability not so important when you take your foot out of a WOT blast. I will say again that I am very impressed with the Coyote in a light car , real torquey and pulls hard = big grinning driver .

I like the FFRP tune for it's WOT, and if they fix the stalling, it would make the coyote swap worthy of the expense

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