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Old 08-04-2007, 10:19 PM   #1
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Spring isolators - Whats the purpose of it?

Well i'm replacing all of the spring isolators in my fox with poly ones and i was wondering what does the isolator that goes in the middle of the coil spring do? What is its purpose? When i lowered my car with the Eibach Pro-Kit, the kit rec. that i cut that isolator in half because of the shorter springs. Well now it just sits in there all c*ock-eyed and doesnt seem like it does anything at all. Is there a reason for it to be there? Could i remove it and be fine? If it matters this is a street car. Thanks

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Old 08-04-2007, 11:04 PM   #2
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You can remove it without any adverse effects.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:20 PM   #3
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You can remove it without any adverse effects.
I'm retarded, adverse effects? It just sits in there and doesn't look like it does anything. Just looks dumb lol. I will remove it if it does nothing. But everything is there for a purpose right?
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:24 PM   #4
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If you remove it expect alittle more of a drop depending on if they are rubber or poly. I'm running none in the rear and full in the front. Makes the drop about even instead of jacked up in the rear more. If I had it to do over I would just have gone coil overs and set my ride hight PERFECT.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:36 PM   #5
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Their purpose is to stop metal on metal contact(spring to the car).They also help on NVH..Will you notice they are gone.Probally not.

I personally run them on mine(poly front and rear )and mine sits perfect..
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:11 AM   #6
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I think you guys are misunderstanding me, yes right now i'm running the Stock Upper and lower spring isolators on my car, I will be upgrading to poly. But what i'm asking is. What does the isolator IN THE MIDDLE of the coil spring do? I'm not talking the isolators that mount on the rear control arm and upper spring perch. I'm talking the isolator in the middle of the coil spring.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:15 AM   #7
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youre talking about the cylinder thingy in the center of the spring? You dont need it.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by niklid05 View Post
youre talking about the cylinder thingy in the center of the spring? You dont need it.
Yes the cylinder thingy. I thought that was called a "isolator" as well? My bad if not. I dont' need it? Okay, well cause it just sits in there all c*ock-eyed and looks like it does nothing....
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91FoxGTLX View Post
I think you guys are misunderstanding me, yes right now i'm running the Stock Upper and lower spring isolators on my car, I will be upgrading to poly. But what i'm asking is. What does the isolator IN THE MIDDLE of the coil spring do? I'm not talking the isolators that mount on the rear control arm and upper spring perch. I'm talking the isolator in the middle of the coil spring.
The *isolators* go on the top and bottom of the spring. Without them, the spring and K-frame and FCA *WILL* rust *FASTER* because of the dissimilar metals touching and the friction. Also, the NVH stuff.

The rubber piece in the center is not called an isolator. I think it's called a damper. And, it helps to dampen the oscillations that can occur in the front Stang suspension. You should keep them regardless of your setup. They don't hurt.

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Old 08-05-2007, 12:25 AM   #10
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alright works for me lol. j/w
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Old 08-05-2007, 08:48 AM   #11
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Keep em, Ford put them in their for a reason and they weigh like .5 pounds each. There is no reason to remove them.


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Old 08-05-2007, 04:18 PM   #12
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personally i never put it back when i installed my eibachs on my last 5.0 and didnt notice anything, but then again it wouldnt hurt to keep em'
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Old 08-05-2007, 05:26 PM   #13
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They limit the travel of the front springs. In the rear, there is a pinion snubber and two outer snubbers that the axle tubes will hit if you bottom out the springs. Well, if you look in the front, there is no snubber to limit the control arm travel if you bottom out the front springs, so they put that thick rubber sleeve in the middle of the front spring so if you hit a hard bump, the spring will only compress until the top and bottom of that sleeve makes contact with the k member and the control arm... thus limiting the travel of the front spring. They protect the strut from being over compressed and and keep the lower control arm from moving too far upward and most importantly, they keep the front spring from breaking, because when the spring is fully compressed and there is still downward force, it will break. For all of you who have removed them thinking they serve no purpose... think again. You run the risk of breaking a front spring if you bottom the car out on a hard bump. And 91foxgtlx... you said you cut yours in half because you put lowering springs on... well, you might as well throw them out now because they are too short to do any good. Get a new set and just trim off an amount equal to the amount the car has been lowered.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:31 PM   #14
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They limit the travel of the front springs. In the rear, there is a pinion snubber and two outer snubbers that the axle tubes will hit if you bottom out the springs. Well, if you look in the front, there is no snubber to limit the control arm travel if you bottom out the front springs, so they put that thick rubber sleeve in the middle of the front spring so if you hit a hard bump, the spring will only compress until the top and bottom of that sleeve makes contact with the k member and the control arm... thus limiting the travel of the front spring. They protect the strut from being over compressed and and keep the lower control arm from moving too far upward and most importantly, they keep the front spring from breaking, because when the spring is fully compressed and there is still downward force, it will break. For all of you who have removed them thinking they serve no purpose... think again. You run the risk of breaking a front spring if you bottom the car out on a hard bump. And 91foxgtlx... you said you cut yours in half because you put lowering springs on... well, you might as well throw them out now because they are too short to do any good. Get a new set and just trim off an amount equal to the amount the car has been lowered.
Where can i buy some new ones? I looked all over and couldn't find any....
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:33 PM   #15
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14 yrs and counting without them with no known issues - and I'm quite anal when it comes to noises and vibrations... I guess it pays to stay on the pavement, watch your speed, and where you drive. I have bump stops located on the Koni strut shaft between the cylinder and top mount with an 800lb front spring. I can't imagine how hard I'd have to hit something to bottom out the spring. We are talking about Mustangs and not Jeeps right?

I haven't seen one in ages... Does a stock Ford strut have a bump stop like my Koni strut does?
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:43 PM   #16
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The *isolators* go on the top and bottom of the spring. Without them, the spring and K-frame and FCA *WILL* rust *FASTER* because of the dissimilar metals touching and the friction. Also, the NVH stuff.
It's all steel - steel body, steel springs, steel arms. So, there are no dissimilar metals.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:00 PM   #17
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14 yrs and counting without them with no known issues - and I'm quite anal when it comes to noises and vibrations... I guess it pays to stay on the pavement, watch your speed, and where you drive. I have bump stops located on the Koni strut shaft between the cylinder and top mount with an 800lb front spring. I can't imagine how hard I'd have to hit something to bottom out the spring. We are talking about Mustangs and not Jeeps right?

I haven't seen one in ages... Does a stock Ford strut have a bump stop like my Koni strut does?
Hitting a pothole right will compress the suspension completely. You don't have to go off road to use your suspension.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:05 AM   #18
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When almost 2000lbs of car are pushing down on your spring when you hit the grand canyon in the middle of the road that 1/4" thick rubber cylinder will not stop your spring from collapsing trust me.
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:43 AM   #19
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When almost 2000lbs of car are pushing down on your spring when you hit the grand canyon in the middle of the road that 1/4" thick rubber cylinder will not stop your spring from collapsing trust me.
Without a doubt it will. Take an empyty coke can, put it on a flat spot of your garage floor, put a 1'x1' piece of plywood on top of it and start stacking bricks on top of it. Get back to me when you find out how many bricks it takes before the can crushes. The rubber sleeves shape, height and being inside the spring so it can't "mush" out gives it strength. It's designed to withstand and amazing amount of force.
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Old 08-06-2007, 07:53 AM   #20
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Without a doubt it will. Take an empyty coke can, put it on a flat spot of your garage floor, put a 1'x1' piece of plywood on top of it and start stacking bricks on top of it. Get back to me when you find out how many bricks it takes before the can crushes. The rubber sleeves shape, height and being inside the spring so it can't "mush" out gives it strength. It's designed to withstand and amazing amount of force.
Exactly, there is no where for it to collapse to so it wont crush.


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Old 08-06-2007, 11:33 AM   #21
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Without a doubt it will. Take an empyty coke can, put it on a flat spot of your garage floor, put a 1'x1' piece of plywood on top of it and start stacking bricks on top of it. Get back to me when you find out how many bricks it takes before the can crushes. The rubber sleeves shape, height and being inside the spring so it can't "mush" out gives it strength. It's designed to withstand and amazing amount of force.
Thats a good way of putting it I never thought of it like that. But I didnt think the coil would collapse enough to completely crush that cylinder you know what I mean? With the spring totaly collapsed what is it like 6" tall still? That wont be enough to squash the cylinder to have that effect you mentioned about the pop can right?
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:31 PM   #22
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sooo, where do i get replacements then? lol
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:11 PM   #23
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You can try:

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Old 08-06-2007, 08:30 PM   #24
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When almost 2000lbs of car are pushing down on your spring when you hit the grand canyon in the middle of the road that 1/4" thick rubber cylinder will not stop your spring from collapsing trust me.
It's not meant to keep the spring from collapsing. It's meant to slow down the suspension and keep the suspension from impacting the body (instant deceleration). Think of it this way, if you were to jump off a ladder, would you rather keep your legs extended straight out when you land or would you rather bend your knees and slow your body down?
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:19 PM   #25
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It's all steel - steel body, steel springs, steel arms. So, there are no dissimilar metals.
You're saying that chassis steel is the same alloy as spring steel?



and to hit your next point before you state it...
Yes, it can make a difference, especially under the conditions we're discussing in this thread.

Not trying to be a smart@$$, or start an argument.
Just trying to clear up confusion...

take it for what you think it's worth,
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:36 AM   #26
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Just for the Record the Ford Service Manual calls them "Spacers", I have no idea why though.
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:24 AM   #27
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what about the bumpstops on the struts? They'll hit before the spring compresses enough to touch that "damper". Besides, with the front angles of the spring compression + 500lbs/in of stored force in the spring, I don't see how that rubber would slow anything down.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
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what about the bumpstops on the struts? They'll hit before the spring compresses enough to touch that "damper". Besides, with the front angles of the spring compression + 500lbs/in of stored force in the spring, I don't see how that rubber would slow anything down.
My thoughts exactly. By the time the spring is about to collapse it will just start to touch the "cylinder" and it cant slow it down that much its just basic physics. Like Chris said also it will hit the bump stop on the strut first.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:28 AM   #29
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I was looking yesterday.. Most of the struts I've been looking at have either an internal or external bump stop. I still have yet to find info about or a place that sells this very important piece (I didn't check with Ford themselves though).

Now I'm curious and just throwing out ideas about the mechanical aspects of this... How many people out there use caster/camber plates and add any height to the plate on the install? Without adding any height on the plate the use of lowering springs reduces the strut travel in compression. If you add the extra height, you would be more likely to bottom out the spring before hitting the strut bump stop.

I'm also curious, has anyone ever actually measured which one would hit first (the 'spacer' or strut bump stop)? If the strut bump stop hit first, would the 'spacer' even be a player in the dynamics of it? If the strut does hit first, how many bricks could you stack on the strut cylinder before it gave in and the spacer came into play?
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:03 PM   #30
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what about the bumpstops on the struts? ...
My bad. From the description of the item, I thought we were referring to bump stops and not "spacers." Bump stops are nothing but compact springs. They are meant to slow the suspension before a hard impact occurs.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:12 PM   #31
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You're saying that chassis steel is the same alloy as spring steel?



and to hit your next point before you state it...
Yes, it can make a difference, especially under the conditions we're discussing in this thread.

Not trying to be a smart@$$, or start an argument.
Just trying to clear up confusion...

take it for what you think it's worth,
jason
Correct, they are not the same alloy. However, they are close enough on the galvanic scale that there isn't much need to worry about them. Suspension and body typically don't use stainless steels. If we were talking about aluminum and steel, then there is a need to add a protective layer between them. Springs need to be coated for the simple fact that once corrosion starts, the springs don't last long (fatigue failure). That's why they are typically coated with some exotic, self-healing coatings.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpath View Post
If we were talking about aluminum and steel, then there is a need to add a protective layer between them. Springs need to be coated for the simple fact that once corrosion starts, the springs don't last long (fatigue failure). That's why they are typically coated with some exotic, self-healing coatings.
"Exotic"
"Self-healing"
So far as I have seen, suspension springs are simply powdercoated...



Fretting between dissimilar materials can be extreme, under extreme conditions (very high loads...). Even if you completely dismiss galvanic corrossion.

But, if you look at a spring that has been run bare on a chassis, without isolators, you will see that there is more corrossion there than simple 'galvanic corrossion' or even 'fretting corrossion' can account for.


So, you are saying that a powder coat is going to protect the spring from metal on metal contact under high loads?



Regardless of your next argument...

My point is simple... (and I doubt you would disagree...)
USE THE STUPID ISOLATORS

I have stated my piece, and I am done with this thread.


Best of luck to all,
jason
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:44 PM   #33
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My comments in blue if you're still reading. I wasn't trying to pick a fight either. Just sharing what I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vristang View Post
"Exotic"
"Self-healing"
So far as I have seen, suspension springs are simply powdercoated...

I'm referring to OE coating on production springs. That is how the spring engineer described it. It's far more elaborate than powdercoat. He basically said the coating on a spring is like your skin. You won't last long either with a chunk missing.



Fretting between dissimilar materials can be extreme, under extreme conditions (very high loads...). Even if you completely dismiss galvanic corrossion. Agree - I didn't think of that.

But, if you look at a spring that has been run bare on a chassis, without isolators, you will see that there is more corrossion there than simple 'galvanic corrossion' or even 'fretting corrossion' can account for.
I never tried it. I'll take your word for it.

So, you are saying that a powder coat is going to protect the spring from metal on metal contact under high loads?
No. I didn't intend to mean it that way if it did.


Regardless of your next argument...

My point is simple... (and I doubt you would disagree...)
USE THE STUPID ISOLATORS You're right. I don't disagree.

I have stated my piece, and I am done with this thread. Same here. Back to the topic on hand.


Best of luck to all,
jason
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