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Old 05-27-2005, 11:40 AM   #1
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AOD shift question

hi all, i sold my 89 w/5sp a while back. now have a 93 w/AOD. my question is how do you hold 2nd gear if shifting manually? when you hit 2 its really 2&3. its a pain not being able to run the r's up in 2nd. (i know should've got a stick,but the price was right on the 93.) thx for reply
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Old 05-27-2005, 12:36 PM   #2
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you have to shuffle the shifter to manually hit 2nd.. not really good for the transmission.. you have to start in 1 then let the rpms get up to like 4000- 5500 then shift into D for a split second and then pull it back into 1.. What happens is the RPMs are too high to go back into 1st so the transmission puts you into 2nd.

If you are interested in drag racing the car you can always get a full manual valvebody that will allow you to manually hit all gears but you also have shift every gear manually.. upshifts and downshifts... (overdrive is controlled by a toggle switch) but you will lose transmission braking on deceleration... so you will have to use more brake to slow the car down since the transmission isn't helping you anymore. Performance Automatic (PA) makes the only manual valvebody for the AOD that I have seen.. and it's not that cheap either.. like $400+
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Old 05-27-2005, 01:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYLITTLEHO
you have to shuffle the shifter to manually hit 2nd.. not really good for the transmission.. you have to start in 1 then let the rpms get up to like 4000- 5500 then shift into D for a split second and then pull it back into 1.. What happens is the RPMs are too high to go back into 1st so the transmission puts you into 2nd.

If you are interested in drag racing the car you can always get a full manual valvebody that will allow you to manually hit all gears but you also have shift every gear manually.. upshifts and downshifts... (overdrive is controlled by a toggle switch) but you will lose transmission braking on deceleration... so you will have to use more brake to slow the car down since the transmission isn't helping you anymore. Performance Automatic (PA) makes the only manual valvebody for the AOD that I have seen.. and it's not that cheap either.. like $400+
I was thinking Lentch was the only one with the manual VB with the OD toggle?

But theirs says "full compression engine brakeing in manual second for autoshift models"
So I think ill go with a Lentech unit
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Old 05-27-2005, 01:37 PM   #4
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yeah Lentech has a Full automatic/manual.. That's why it has compression braking.. it also works because it still utilizes a TC cable... With a full manual valvebody you have no TV cable at all.. it has a set TV pressure.. so it is literally FULL MANUAL you select the gear and thats about it... no compression braking or anything like that.. plain and simple function... Also since there is only 3 forward shifter positions, OD has to operate on a toggle.
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Old 05-27-2005, 09:05 PM   #5
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not really into dragin' , just like to air it out from time to time. why didnt ford just make a 4 pos. shifter? it would be nice to have a little more control over the trans. shoulda got a stick

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Old 05-27-2005, 09:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYLITTLEHO
yeah Lentech has a Full automatic/manual.. That's why it has compression braking.. it also works because it still utilizes a TC cable... With a full manual valvebody you have no TV cable at all.. it has a set TV pressure.. so it is literally FULL MANUAL you select the gear and thats about it... no compression braking or anything like that.. plain and simple function... Also since there is only 3 forward shifter positions, OD has to operate on a toggle.
That is incorrect. Not to try and split atoms or anything, but LenTech was the first company ever to even offer a FULL MANUAL AOD Valve Body several years ago. They still offer it as well. It's called the STRIP TERMINATOR...it does not use the TV cable and works off of full fluid pressure. Compression braking means when the car is in gear and you let off the gas, the car slows down...The older LenTech valve bodies free wheeled when you let off the gas in 2nd gear FWIW. I imagine that's why they specify that now.

Roughly 8 years ago, when LenTech was young, I had a Street Terminator Lock-Up valve body which used full fluid pressure, but could be used with or without the TV cable, depending on whether you wanted it to shift consistently when cruising in Drive/Overdrive. These are no longer offered except with a complete LenTech built transmission...That's too bad because it made my old bone stock rebuilt AOD live easily behind a 500+ rwhp 3500# car, when all the AOD Haters said they were junk...Fooled them, huh?
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Old 05-27-2005, 10:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rel3rd
That is incorrect. Not to try and split atoms or anything, but LenTech was the first company ever to even offer a FULL MANUAL AOD Valve Body several years ago. They still offer it as well. It's called the STRIP TERMINATOR...it does not use the TV cable and works off of full fluid pressure. Compression braking means when the car is in gear and you let off the gas, the car slows down...The older LenTech valve bodies free wheeled when you let off the gas in 2nd gear FWIW. I imagine that's why they specify that now.

Roughly 8 years ago, when LenTech was young, I had a Street Terminator Lock-Up valve body which used full fluid pressure, but could be used with or without the TV cable, depending on whether you wanted it to shift consistently when cruising in Drive/Overdrive. These are no longer offered except with a complete LenTech built transmission...That's too bad because it made my old bone stock rebuilt AOD live easily behind a 500+ rwhp 3500# car, when all the AOD Haters said they were junk...Fooled them, huh?
ummm...

Performance Automatic has had one since around 92...was in my race car for a couple years until it was parked in 95...

Remember Kainen Vilmonot (sp?)...raced with Tim Matherly, former MPS fellow...they raced an AOD for a long time...still had trouble shifting at 7500+ rpm...heh...think that was a P/A manual valve body too...but can't remember that far back...


anyway...

shift the lever into "D" and "WAIT" until it hits 2nd...than "AFTER" about a 3/4 second...pull it back into 1st...this will NOT kill the o/d band like doing it in a split second will...you have to give time for the 2nd gear clutches to engage...otherwise, the o/d band hits first and can't release in time and just burns up...

how do I know... (warranty replacement 4 x's...then got smart and decided to learn what makes an AOD tick...and build it myself...)
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Old 05-28-2005, 12:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 351Freak

Performance Automatic has
shift the lever into "D" and "WAIT" until it hits 2nd...than "AFTER" about a 3/4 second...pull it back into 1st...this will NOT kill the o/d band like doing it in a split second will...you have to give time for the 2nd gear clutches to engage...otherwise, the o/d band hits first and can't release in time and just burns up...

how do I know... (warranty replacement 4 x's...then got smart and decided to learn what makes an AOD tick...and build it myself...)


I am sooo tempted to try this ha ha...however im scared to do it as well
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Old 05-28-2005, 01:29 PM   #9
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I have a PA VB in my AOD, best thing I ever did ( other than a 3500 stall ). My 357 LTD has an AOD.

I do not see why compression braking in 1st or 2nd matters any. The PA VB has compression braking in 3rd.

How often do you use really use compression braking ?

The PA VB turned my stock 100K mile AOD into an AOD that will hammer the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Getting rubber on gear changes at will is fun. The TV cable went in the trash.

They also use a custom OD servo, this might be similar or be the desirable A+ servo . This servo allows for a postive downshift from 4th to 3rd

The valve body install is pretty easy, it's complete, assembled and ready to drop in. You need an IN/LB torque wrench to tighten the VB bolts to 100 IN/LBS. A normal FT/LB torque wrench is not accurate enough at the low end of the scale for this kind of work.

I got a cheap Husky one ( $25) from Home Depot.
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Old 05-28-2005, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visable-assassin
I am sooo tempted to try this ha ha...however im scared to do it as well
there is NOTHING to be scared of...

IT IS NOT THE UPSHIFT THAT KILLS THE O/D BAND...IT IS THE SUPERQUICK 1-2 THEN 2-1 THAT CAUSES PRE-MATURE FAILURE...

if you simply give it the 1/2 to 3/4 second it needs to get into 2nd gear PROPERLY...then there is no problem with a downshift back into the LOW RANGE...

the trans was DESIGNED TO ALLOW A MANUAL UPSHIFT INTO 2ND...and it was also designed to then shift back into low...it wass NOT designed to simply THROW the shifter into "D" and then IMMEDIATELY back into LOW...


with that being said...here's what SHOULD happen with a properly setup AOD with the WOT shiftpoints set higher than 5000 rpm (mine are closer to 6k)...

in low...you rev it to whatever RPM you deem appropriate for the shift...
when you then bump it to "D", as long as you are betong the 1-2 shift point, it goes to 2nd...

ONCE SECOND IS FULLY ENGAGED (INTERMEDIATE CLUTCHES and o/d BAND...!!!) THEN YOU CAN SHIFT IT BACK INTO LOW with no worries...

then just tach it out to whatever rpm is appropriate for the 2-3 shift and bump it back into "D" for 3rd gear...

easy, smeasy...and no broken tranny...
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 351Freak
there is NOTHING to be scared of...

IT IS NOT THE UPSHIFT THAT KILLS THE O/D BAND...IT IS THE SUPERQUICK 1-2 THEN 2-1 THAT CAUSES PRE-MATURE FAILURE...

if you simply give it the 1/2 to 3/4 second it needs to get into 2nd gear PROPERLY...then there is no problem with a downshift back into the LOW RANGE...

the trans was DESIGNED TO ALLOW A MANUAL UPSHIFT INTO 2ND...and it was also designed to then shift back into low...it wass NOT designed to simply THROW the shifter into "D" and then IMMEDIATELY back into LOW...


with that being said...here's what SHOULD happen with a properly setup AOD with the WOT shiftpoints set higher than 5000 rpm (mine are closer to 6k)...

in low...you rev it to whatever RPM you deem appropriate for the shift...
when you then bump it to "D", as long as you are betong the 1-2 shift point, it goes to 2nd...

ONCE SECOND IS FULLY ENGAGED (INTERMEDIATE CLUTCHES and o/d BAND...!!!) THEN YOU CAN SHIFT IT BACK INTO LOW with no worries...

then just tach it out to whatever rpm is appropriate for the 2-3 shift and bump it back into "D" for 3rd gear...

easy, smeasy...and no broken tranny...

Well when the roads here are no longer wet and I can get out to the local air strip (which allows drags) Ill give it a shot...Unless I wanna take a 30 minute drive outta city limits and hit the highway some.
However before I mess with it Ill have the tranny rebuilt with new clutches and what not
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 351Freak
ummm...

Performance Automatic has had one since around 92...
ummmm...

my point was LenTech does indeed offer a true MANUAL valve body. Not all are manual/automatic like was described above. Like I said...I wasn't trying to split atoms, just making a clarification.
FWIW, I am 99.9% sure that LenTech was the first to offer any type of aftermarket valve body for our "weak" (LOL) AOD's...but who really gives a crap...as long as anybody's valve body works like they want it to.

...and I agree with 84 LTD LX, the "compression braking" option or whatever they call it is not a selling point IMO. In fact, I loved having it freewheel in 2nd gear because you could do a sweet (waterbox) burnout through 2 gears before a pass, and when you let off the gas it was like pushing a clutch in and freewheeling up towards the starting line. Much less transmission stress than leting off the gas and biting in under load IMO...

Visable-assassin: I wouldn't be too scared of doing the L-D-L shuffle...as long as you do it like 351Freak has described for you. I have a LenTech Street Terminator VB waiting (for me) to install in my AOD, but have been doing fine doing the "shuffle" in the meantime.
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Old 05-28-2005, 04:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rel3rd
ummmm...

my point was LenTech does indeed offer a true MANUAL valve body. Not all are manual/automatic like was described above. Like I said...I wasn't trying to split atoms, just making a clarification.
FWIW, I am 99.9% sure that LenTech was the first to offer any type of aftermarket valve body for our "weak" (LOL) AOD's...but who really gives a crap...as long as anybody's valve body works like they want it to.

...and I agree with 84 LTD LX, the "compression braking" option or whatever they call it is not a selling point IMO. In fact, I loved having it freewheel in 2nd gear because you could do a sweet (waterbox) burnout through 2 gears before a pass, and when you let off the gas it was like pushing a clutch in and freewheeling up towards the starting line. Much less transmission stress than leting off the gas and biting in under load IMO...

Visable-assassin: I wouldn't be too scared of doing the L-D-L shuffle...as long as you do it like 351Freak has described for you. I have a LenTech Street Terminator VB waiting (for me) to install in my AOD, but have been doing fine doing the "shuffle" in the meantime.

Please describe the feeling of "free wheeling" is it harder to stop the car (coming up to a stop light) than with out it? will I hate it 15 minutes after I install it?
Im really interested in ditching that damn TV cable...since I dont have the tools to set the TV pressure (that and well I cant seem to find the tools LOL)
and since I am bringing my car in to have the tranny rebuilt soon (with in the next month or so A+ servo,mechanical diode(if i can figure out how that works) new bearings, alto red eagle clutches etc etc) Ill have them setup my VB and shift kit at that time....only thing up in the air rightnow is a wide ratio gear set for the tranny since I dont wanna kill my gas milage more than the 3.73's that are going will already do.
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Old 05-28-2005, 05:13 PM   #14
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This 'freewheeling' is just like slipping the shifter into nuetral when you are not on the throttle, it's really no big deal.

I drove my car dailey, over 75 miles a day for several years and have to say the full manual transbrake PA VB is very streetable.
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Old 05-28-2005, 05:16 PM   #15
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My old valve body, like I said, "freewheeled" in 2nd gear ONLY. I don't think any valve body allows that to happen in DRIVE. That would be a PITA to deal with in a normal street driven car, or any car for that matter...

Like's been said in a few other threads recently, to "do away" with the TV cable, you will need a FULL MANUAL VALVE BODY from whoever. If you want the car to be able to shift by itself in DRIVE, you'll need the TV cable and a valve body that is NOT FULL MANUAL...

Any of the high performance valve bodies will eliminate the need for a "shift kit"...and I believe a "mechanical diode" is an AOD-E (95 and newer) thing only...
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rel3rd
My old valve body, like I said, "freewheeled" in 2nd gear ONLY. I don't think any valve body allows that to happen in DRIVE. That would be a PITA to deal with in a normal street driven car, or any car for that matter...

Like's been said in a few other threads recently, to "do away" with the TV cable, you will need a FULL MANUAL VALVE BODY from whoever. If you want the car to be able to shift by itself in DRIVE, you'll need the TV cable and a valve body that is NOT FULL MANUAL...

Any of the high performance valve bodies will eliminate the need for a "shift kit"...and I believe a "mechanical diode" is an AOD-E (95 and newer) thing only...

Full manual I could live with if itll save me the headache that damn TV cable can create.
also according to Becontrols...used to be baumann


and The transmisison center

a mechanical diode can be used in an 91 AOD so if I can use it...I will
Ill build this thing to take the abuse I throw at it. and once I get to the level that a new one needs to be put in..a C4 will go in
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:13 PM   #17
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good luck to you...
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Old 05-28-2005, 10:14 PM   #18
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mechanical diode was available from 99 and newer 4R70W transmissions.. 98 and previous years still used a one way roller clutch.... If I can remember right.
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Old 05-28-2005, 10:31 PM   #19
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If you build the AOD right, you won't need a C4.

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Old 05-28-2005, 10:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '84 LTD LX
If you build the AOD right, you won't need a C4.
I love the OD feature which is why I havent done a C4 yet.
And I realize that if I build it right things will be much better...I can dish out alot of abuse on my baby and I just wanter her stronger than she is now.
Im just trying to put a parts list together of what I will need need from baumann and the transmission center for my rebuild. I dont know what all Ill need just yet which is why Ill be calling them. Now im lost as to that mechanical diode...both sites say they can be used in my 91 AOD but here im told its only for like 99 and so im lost
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Old 05-28-2005, 10:50 PM   #21
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You could get a 4R70W from a 1999 up 3.8L install a PA full manual VB and have a better trans right from the start. The mechanical diode, the wide ratio gears and updated internals make for a stronger trans.

Check out this thread... http://www.corral.net/forums/showthr...ighlight=4R70W

This would be far easier than trying to peice together a trans yourself, even if you use it for parts. The 4R70W can swap internals with the AOD and has all the 'good stuff' already or run the V6 4R70W with the PA VB. This does away with the computer part of the 4R70W.
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Old 05-28-2005, 11:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '84 LTD LX
You could get a 4R70W from a 1999 up 3.8L install a PA full manual VB and have a better trans right from the start. The mechanical diode, the wide ratio gears and updated internals make for a stronger trans.

Check out this thread... http://www.corral.net/forums/showthr...ighlight=4R70W

This would be far easier than trying to peice together a trans yourself, even if you use it for parts. The 4R70W can swap internals with the AOD and has all the 'good stuff' already or run the V6 4R70W with the PA VB. This does away with the computer part of the 4R70W.

so go to a junk yard and pull a 4R70W from a 6banger swap out the stock VB with a PA VB and the computer that controls the OD int his thing is now gone and the VB controls it all including the OD?
and its a direct swap? or will I be needing a bunch of other items? *im reading the other thread now*
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:58 AM   #23
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All the 4R70W internals will swap over to the AOD, you WILL have to use the AOD input shafts though... as the converter is different for the AOD-E/4R70W and can't be used on an AOD.
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Old 05-29-2005, 01:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYLITTLEHO
All the 4R70W internals will swap over to the AOD, you WILL have to use the AOD input shafts though... as the converter is different for the AOD-E/4R70W and can't be used on an AOD.

so buy the 4R70W take it to my transmission guy and have him swap all the guts into my AOD case? everything except the electronic OD BS right?
if so how does the OD work then in the AOD case?
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