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Old 12-11-2004, 03:16 PM   #1
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what's needed to use 90mm lightning MAF meter on mustang

what is needed to make the 90mm lightning MAF meter work on my 95 GT. Does it require a chip and 42# injectors? I can pick one up brand new for $100, thats over half the price of a Pro-M, but it wont be plug and play with the 42's like the calibrated Pro-M, correct?
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Old 12-11-2004, 04:56 PM   #2
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From what I understand is that all ford maf's are calibrated the same. The EEC is what calibrates for the different injectors. Aftermarket maf's just fake out the EEC to compensate for bigger injectors.
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Old 12-11-2004, 06:06 PM   #3
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I was told to cut and splice the wiring harnest off of a 96 and it will work. I dont know if thats true but just putting that out there.
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:48 AM   #4
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You need a late model MAF connector and you definately need a chip - Ford does not calibrate for injectors, but the MAF transfer function is so different, you need a chip to adapt to to another vehicle.
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:57 AM   #5
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you will need a chip or a tweecer. you CAN use whatever injector you want, as long as you have the chip/tweecer compensate for you. and you'll have to modify the maf harness for the newer plug.

mine works great
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Old 12-12-2004, 02:05 PM   #6
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MAFs are calibrated for the MAX HP of the engine. It has _nothing_ to do with the injector size. For 96+ Ford went to a different scaling function for it's MAFs so that the MAFs are more accurate at low flows and can handle higher air flows. This meant better idle control and fewer MAF calibrations (fewer types needed to handle the HP distribution of all the Ford engines).

So..., you need the MAF, a way to mount it, the tubing to/from the MAF, the *connector*, and you need a chip or Tweecer. As for chips, it seems that JMSchips is your best bet. There is also Fordchip and ProM. But, JMS has, for *many years*, kept a good rep.

If you do the install, you can do a tech article and I'll put it on my page. I'm not sure if I'll get around to doing it this winter on my stang.

BTW: CFM, an authorized coral dealer, has the LMAFs for a great deal.
http://mustang.c-f-m.com/
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Old 12-13-2004, 11:12 AM   #7
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i appreciate the link and info stangPlus2Birds, but i found the LMAF's at an even better deal, $99.00 brand new. I already have a chip, its a Diablo. I dont have the connector though. Is this a common thing, meaning would any tuner be able to re-burn my chip to make this work in my application, or is it a tricky process.

Im just trying to figure out if it would be better to go this way, or just get a Pro-M "calibrated" for 42#'s. Either way I'm still gonna get the dyno tune.

Or do i really even need a new meter, can the dyno tune & chip make my stock unit work with the new injectors. Im exploring all my options at this point.
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Old 12-13-2004, 11:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYBRED
i appreciate the link and info stangPlus2Birds, but i found the LMAF's at an even better deal, $99.00 brand new.
With the electronics? Is it the 80mm or the 90mm LMAF. There were both sizes. Can you post the info?

IMHO, the LMAF is TONS better than any Pro-M (or other meter)!! But, it also depends a lot on what you want the car for!!

The LMAF curve is great for a mostly street car that sees the track every now and then. But, for a quarter mile car, the LMAF (96+ Ford MAF curves) is not that good! The LMAF curve is very "bottom heavy" for low flow. That allows for better and more accurate idle and running on the street. But, above ~200hp, the LMAF (Ford 96+ MAF curve) isn't as accurate as the "After-market" 42# Fox-curve. The LMAF curve is very steep above ~200hp. That way, Ford doesn't need as many calibrations for the wide HP range of engines that they make.

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Old 12-14-2004, 10:09 AM   #9
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part # M-12579-L54
Ford Racing 90 mm mass air meter used on Lightning pick ups

this is for a street cat that may see the track 5 or 6 times a year, but gets foot put in it daily through a couple of the gears. also supercharged.

the electronics are shown in the picture. This guy/company has smoking deals. Thats $99 shipped. I bought Injectors earlier this year, Ford Racing 42# injectors, set of 8, new in box for $289 shipped. He now has them for $249.
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Old 12-14-2004, 11:01 AM   #10
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That's a great deal, especially if you have a tweecer R/T like I already have. As other's said above, you HAVE to have a chip/tuner to make it work...
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Old 12-15-2004, 12:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYBRED
part # M-12579-L54
Ford Racing 90 mm mass air meter used on Lightning pick ups
Opps, sorry, I also meant to ask if you could post a link, email, web-site, etc for that LMAF with that price. It would be good to know! I'm one of the biggest LMAF leg-humpers around. For $99 and an ?$250? chip, I think it's a *great* alternative to the Pro-M 77mm.
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Old 12-15-2004, 08:18 AM   #12
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Yes, I'd like to see the link as well...
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Old 12-15-2004, 08:21 AM   #13
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The connector you need for an LMAF is part number F68Z-12A690-AA or go to a junkyard.

For lower HP cars an 80mm LMAF has a bit more low end resolution, but will peg sooner. My son runs a 90mm LMAF in his Turbo Gen 1 Lightning and makes 450/560 RWHP/TQ and is not pegging it. We recommend only LMAFs for our customers because it saves tuning time. For applications up to 700 RWHP we recommend the SCT BA 2400 MAF - which is an OEM Hitachi MAF with reworked electronics. Hitachi does all Ford meters. That's what I run in my turbo 393. OEM MAFs are by far the best available - the curves are usually within 2-5% of one another, so they really save on tuning time and you can't get better driveability.
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Old 12-15-2004, 02:15 PM   #14
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Diversified Products Marketing is selling them, But on Ebay. only 1 available at a time. their user ID is emustangparts. You can only get that deal if you Buy it now through Ebay, but then you call Diversified on the same number to place a regular order and pay via credit card. Luckily i reckognized the number when searching for injectors a few months ago, and knew i wouldnt get ripped off.

The link is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

So the only thing i need to get is the connector plug, and have a new program burned onto my chip, and i may still come out cheaper than buying aftermarket.
thanks for the help guys
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Old 12-15-2004, 02:24 PM   #15
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As usual Don, some great info there.

HYBRED - make sure that whoever is going to do the chip has access to the LMAF transfer curve and knows how to input it correctly. Otherwise, this is all for nothing. The MAF transfer curve is the key to making this work.

BTW, don't cut your old plug off - wire the new one in and simply have both plugs. Down the road, you could always swap back to to a stock style if you had to...
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Old 12-15-2004, 03:03 PM   #16
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As a Ford Parts man, that harness only list for $23 just get it new.
Also instead of going to a Motorsport Dealer you can get it at a local one. The Ford part # is 1L3Z-12B579-AA.
And on my car Im not 100% sure about a 95 but I had to have a plate made to accept the LMAF cause of the one end is is square. And yes I had to have a chip burnt.
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:26 PM   #17
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HYBRED: THANKS!! I just added an LAMF to my ever growing MAF collection.

Now, I just have to figure out a place to put my Accel coil so I can go back to MAF. My ABS is where my coil used to be. My coil sits where the MAF normally sits. My coil gets in the way with a MAF or big air intake tubes. It also makes a lot of EMI (noise) on the MAF wires. Maybe I'll just use zip ties and mount the coil to the chrome fuel lines. Sounds safe, huh?
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:01 AM   #18
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If ABS is where coil used to be, and coil is where the MAF used to be, then MAF should go where the ABS used to be...
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93Cobra#2771
...BTW, don't cut your old plug off - wire the new one in and simply have both plugs. Down the road, you could always swap back to to a stock style if you had to...
Awesome Richard. Very good idea.
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:21 PM   #20
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90mm LMAF

anybody know how much cfm the 90mm lmaf flows?
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:54 PM   #21
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well, in the tweecer, the highest voltage reading is 1741 KG/Hr (4.9xx volts) on a stock 90mm LMAF transfer curve....
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93Cobra#2771
If ABS is where coil used to be, and coil is where the MAF used to be, then MAF should go where the ABS used to be...
No ABS from the factory on the fox cars. On sn95, they put the ABS on the lower frame rail, on the passenger side, way up front, next to the radiator. To much of a pain to run all of the brake lines to that point. Plus, I like having my ABS sitting on the drivers side fender in plain sight where I can show it off.
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:08 AM   #23
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would like to know where other ppl have goten chips burnt from for the LMAF swap...as you can see from my sig..i should probubly have a chip burnt even if i dont do the LMAF swap..lol...but id like to get one from some place that has done the LMAF stuff before..dont want to call them for a chip and have them say "LMAF curve table? whats that?"
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Old 12-21-2004, 08:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
No ABS from the factory on the fox cars.
I know, just making a bad joke..

Quote:
would like to know where other ppl have goten chips burnt from for the LMAF swap...as you can see from my sig..i should probubly have a chip burnt even if i dont do the LMAF swap..lol...but id like to get one from some place that has done the LMAF stuff before..dont want to call them for a chip and have them say "LMAF curve table? whats that?"
I would start with Byron at www.racesystems.com. Very competant and knowledgable guy, plus he will help work with you to get it right. Be forewarned, you prob. won't get everything the way you like it on the first burn, as mail order chips for DRIVABILITY are tough to nail down the first time.

A better bet for you would be to find someone local who can do some datalogging on your car. That way they can tune out any problems you might be having. They should have access to a wideband O2 - as you really have no idea what a/f you are running at WOT, since so many things have changed on your car.

At the very least, before you start the process, find a dyno with a wideband and get a few baseline runs. That way the tuner knows where your a/f is at...

Nice combo, BTW...
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Old 12-21-2004, 10:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangPlus2Birds
No ABS from the factory on the fox cars. On sn95, they put the ABS on the lower frame rail, on the passenger side, way up front, next to the radiator. To much of a pain to run all of the brake lines to that point. Plus, I like having my ABS sitting on the drivers side fender in plain sight where I can show it off.
Not Entirely True!

Technically a 1988 Turbocoupe is a FOX car and they had ABS (As a Option).

So you could take all the ABS parts off a 1988 Turbocoupe and install them on a Mustang.
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:00 AM   #26
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there really are no dynos around my area...id have to travle pretty far...mabe a tweecer would be a better idea?
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:09 AM   #27
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A tweecer plus a wideband (the wideband can be datalogged through the tweecer) is an excellent alternative to a dyno. In fact, I prefer it to a dyno run, as you can then tune to your heart's content, even during part throttle. Especially during throttle transitions during normal driving (well built motors often go lean for a split second during these transitions).
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:11 AM   #28
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how hard is it to hook up wideband?
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:36 AM   #29
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They are not all that bad to do. Hardest part is getting an O2 bung welded into your exhaust at the appropriate position (~24" from the motor, although this distance varies according to the type of controller/sensor you get). Then it's simply a matter of running the wiring, and giving power and ground (usually through the cig lighter) to the controller...
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHaFT7
well, in the tweecer, the highest voltage reading is 1741 KG/Hr (4.9xx volts) on a stock 90mm LMAF transfer curve....
I have a question.

Does this mean that the LMAF is calibrated to a 36lbs/hr injector? The reason why I ask is because of this page from Pro-M's website.

http://www.pro-flow.com/flow%20sheets/36flow.htm

Thanks,
Henry
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangPlus2Birds
MAFs are calibrated for the MAX HP of the engine. It has _nothing_ to do with the injector size.
I have another MAF question.

If a MAF is calibrated for the max HP of an engine, why wouldn't all companies calibrate their MAFs for 10,000 horsepower so a person wouldn't have to recalibrate it?

I had an 80mm Pro-M MAF calibrated for 36 lbs/hr injectors. I was told that it would peg after a certain RWHP. When I saw my tuner, they told me to get it calibrated for a 42 lbs/hr injector. I did that since Pro-M did it for free but I don't understand why it would not peg now when it would have pegged before. They didn't do anything physically to the meter. The only difference I see is that they changed the electronics.

The MAF has to be the most confusing thing to me.

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Old 12-22-2004, 11:40 AM   #32
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Quote:
Does this mean that the LMAF is calibrated to a 36lbs/hr injector?
Nope. Injector size has nothing to do with MAF calibration on OEM Ford MAF's. Injector size is programmed into the EEC.

Quote:
If a MAF is calibrated for the max HP of an engine, why wouldn't all companies calibrate their MAFs for 10,000 horsepower so a person wouldn't have to recalibrate it?
One word: Resolution. The higher the metering capability of a MAF, the less resolution the meter has.

Resolution - basically, it has to do with airflow vs. MAF voltage. Two factors affect it: Physical size of the MAF, and injector size it's calibrated for. For example:



(all numbers are hypothetical and just to describe resolution)



Meter "A" - Can flow up to 800 cfm. Calibrated for 19# injectors

Meter "B" - Can flow up to 1000 cfm, calibrated for 42# injectors



Typical MAF airflow during normal driving will range from 50-200 cfm. This is the same no matter what MAF you are using.



Now, Meter "A" flows 800 cfm at 5v. Meter "B" flows 1000 cfm at 5v. 200 cfm difference, big whoop, right? Wrong.



Now, at 1.25v, Meter A flows 200 cfm. At the same 1.25v, Meter B flows 250 cfm. Do you see the trend here? When you start getting into lower voltages/airflow levels, the bigger MAF has a harder time covering the bigger spread of airflow with the set amount of voltage available.



Kinda like fooling with the "mouse" speed on your computer. Set it up to as fast as it goes, and you can easily move from side to side on the screen with a flick of the wrist. Try to select a single letter in a text document at the high speed, though, and it's a whole new ball game. The amount of distance the pointer covers vs the amount the mouse actually moves makes it very difficult to define exactly where you want to be when it is a very small area. Set the mouse speed to slow, and you can easily select what you want.

Hopefully this makes sense for you. If not, I'll try again.
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
They didn't do anything physically to the meter. The only difference I see is that they changed the electronics.
Exactly. This is the way they do their "calibrations". They simply moved voltage points vs. airflow points to allow for the bigger injectors. Essentially they "fool" the computer this way to try and get decent drivability. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:50 PM   #34
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Thanks for the detailed explanation, I understand what you are saying.

Here's another question. How is SCT able to make their meter cover such a wide range and not cause any problems? Can Pro-M do the same?
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:57 PM   #35
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I don't have any idea how the SCT MAF works. You might try talking to Don95Vert. He knows their stuff very well, and is also a dealer for them.

I don't know if SCT MAF's have resolution issues or not...
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