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Old 12-10-2004, 09:06 PM   #1
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Pintle vs. 4-hole injectors. Are Ford Racing injectors 4-hole?

First, I have read that 4-hole injectors have a better spray pattern than pintle injectors. Then I read elsewhere the exact opposite--that pintle injectors have a better spray pattern than 4-hole injectors.

Then I read that 4-hole injectors are more resistant to deposits than pintle injectors. Then I read elsewhere the exact opposite--that pintle injectors are more resistant to deposits than 4-hole injectors.

So I'm just a little confused.

Is it true that new Ford vehicles are all using 4-hole injectors?

Are the Ford Racing (FMS? FRPP?) #19 injector sets 4-hole or pintle?

Does anyone even still make pintle style injectors??

Two of the injectors in my 1988 5.0 are leaking from the top. I already replaced the o-rings and they continued to leak, so I added UV dye to the gas and just checked it with the UV light--as far as I can tell the leak is coming from that little hole on the side of the injector right next to the connector. Not from the o-ring.

So now I am faced with having to replace at least two injectors (I can't see the 4 at the back of the engine) and so I figured I would replace them ALL. They're 161,000 miles old and probably shot. Well, I know 2 are, anyway.
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Old 12-11-2004, 02:10 AM   #2
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who cares, go to a junkyard and pull some injectors for $20
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Old 12-11-2004, 09:54 AM   #3
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im interested to know the difference as well. When i pulled the 19#'s out of my 95, they were 1 hole pintle, with deposits on the pintle.

The new FORD 42#'s i have to go back in are 4 hole.
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Old 12-11-2004, 11:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAT88GT
who cares, go to a junkyard and pull some injectors for $20
With my luck, those will leak too. Plus, I want a new (or reconditioned/cleaned) set--the last spark plug change showed that some cylinders are running lean and some are running rich, which tells me that the injectors on the lean cylinders are partly clogged.
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Old 12-11-2004, 10:25 PM   #5
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Did a little research, it sounds like 4-hole spray (which is a disc-type I think) is the way to go:

"5. Valve design
There are three basic valve designs used with variations on each: pintle, disk, and ball.

The pintle-type valve is the earliest design but still popular. And it is the design used on our cars. The solenoid lifts the pintle out of an orifice to release fuel. For our DOHC models, there is an additional orifice with a "figure 8" design, as can be seen on my web page 2-inj360.htm. The pintle is also visible. The problems with the pintle design include increased chance of clogging in the small orifice area, slower response time because of heavier armatures used to lift the pintle, and reduced service life.

The ball-type injector uses a ball (actually half a sphere) to seal the metering orifice, rather than a pintle. This allows the use of a lighter armature and so response time is faster than for pintle types. There is also less wear for a longer service life. The orifice can be designed with multiple openings for a wider spray pattern plus more fuel can be delivered for a given drive time.

The disk-type injector eliminates the armature and the solenoid acts directly on the flat disk through the core of the injector body. The flat disk rests on a seat that has an orifice in it. This arrangement is even lighter than the ball-type for an even faster response time. This disk and seat design also results in less deposit build up at the orifice and longer service life.

If upgrading our injectors, the turbo owners should consider ball or disk type injectors because the faster response time of the injector (over the pintle style) should partially offset the lack of peak-hold circuitry in our setup."

From: http://www.stealth316.com/2-injectortypes.htm (yea it's a Dodge Stealth site, but injectors are injectors.)

Peak-hold circuitry is for low-impedance injectors(which have faster response time), if anyone is wondering. The Mustang EEC-IV and EEC-V use high-impedance injectors. This could explain why those #42s are 4-hole. That kind of flow rate probably works best with a faster response time.
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Old 12-11-2004, 10:47 PM   #6
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Well I know that just about all diesel injectors have nozzle holes. Fuel injection is critical on those things. Having tiny nozzles lets you direct the fuel in a wide spray for complete mixing and they atomize better too.

As for the pintle wearing out, I don't think that necessarily guarantees the 4 hole injectors will have a longer service life, as the nozzle holes will wear...
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:56 AM   #7
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When I replaced my fuel injectors awhile back, I put a set of the disk style in. There was a company (cant remember the name) that was selling them for under $200 flowed and matched. They are the newer style EV6 injector like you would find on a late model cobra only they had the correct jet tronic connector on them for earlier style mustangs. When I got them I took them down to my local ford dealer and had him look up the numbers on the injectors to check and see if they were originally #24 injectors. When he crossed the numbers from the injector they were listed as for taurus injectors. I'm not positive if they were modified from stock, but I dont think so. These are the only disk style I have seen with the jet-tronics style plug, most later disk stlye injectors use a uscar connector.

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Disk style EV6 with jet tronic connector The taurus ones that I have look exactly like this only they are light blue.


Shows the diff. between new and old with jet tronic and uscar connectors. The black one is from a 2001 cobra and the orange are stock 19#'s from my 88.
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:19 PM   #8
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The injectors I'm looking at are described as flowed/reconditioned Bosch Design II, 19lb/hour, 4-hole spray, tested for correct flow/spray, resistance, and leak checked with new o-rings, cap, and inlet filter. $130 for a set of 8. They're on Ebay. They have the Jetronic-style connector and are the wide-body style. I figure these ought to last me till I decide to upgrade to larger injectors.

The narrow body style appears to be the Bosch Design III.

Do they make adaptor wires to connect jetronic connectors to uscar connectors?

I know I've seen a male-end jetronic connector before, and I know the uscar connectors are available, so someone could make these adaptor wires if they wanted.
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:53 PM   #9
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Why waste the money on 19# injectors???? Go to the junk yard......
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Old 12-12-2004, 09:02 PM   #10
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I honestly don't feel that you'll notice a difference between used stock injectors removed from a car and stored x-amount of time versus stock injectors that are flow-matched. You're going to upgrade anyway so just throw in a replacement injector or injector set that will get you going until then. This is one of those things most people will tell you you're putting too much thought into for nothing.
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Old 12-12-2004, 11:45 PM   #11
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If I upgrade, the pintle vs. 4-hole spray question is still there. I'd like to know the difference, whether it's for a #19 injector or something larger.

Regarding junkyard injectors: There aren't any junkyards around here that would have them for a reasonable price.

I'd sooner buy a set of used reconditioned injectors simply so I know that once I've installed them and bolted the intake back on, I'm DONE. No discovering that one or more of them is totally plugged or leaking.
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Old 12-13-2004, 08:05 AM   #12
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They do make adapters for switching between uscar and jet-tronic and vice versa, but I have only found them one place and they were pretty pricey.

As others have mentioned if you are going to keep the car stock then you are putting way to much thought into it. You will not notice any performance gain from the disk style, and the stock ford injectors have proven to last quite a long time without any problems.

If you plan on doing future upgrades then just wait until your ready to upgrade to 24# and them buy them.
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Old 12-13-2004, 01:58 PM   #13
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Since they're leaking fuel, it'll fail the safety inspection so I'll just replace them now with a reconditioned set, and upgrade to 24# when that time comes.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 12-13-2004, 04:19 PM   #14
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Take a look through the classifieds section. It seems somebody is always selling a set of just about whatever injectors you want to get.
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:53 PM   #15
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http://mustang.c-f-m.com/index.asp?P...rodID=973&HS=1

are those the adapters you are speaking of?
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Old 12-13-2004, 07:29 PM   #16
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Yep, except that they go the other way.
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Old 12-13-2004, 11:07 PM   #17
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IMHO, most people go to 24's for the same reason that ricers put on their 12 foot wings.

For a direct replacement disk injector for the Fox pintle injectors, see:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsFORD.asp

Will you get 1,000 more HP with the new injectors? Nope, you need at least a 13 foot wing for that. The better spray pattern will give better idle, lower smog, more uniform burn in the cylinder, and so on. How much HP is it worth? Hard to say. MOST people are fools and only know about MAX HP. Those fools should drive my ~200HP DOHC FWD Olds (or any other DOHC that has almost ALL of it's power in the high-end). It's "power under the curve" that counts. And for real life street driving, it's power UNDER 2.5K rpms.

So, for the FEW HP that the disk injectors give, *I* went with them when I put on my new intake.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:09 AM   #18
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if just one of my 161K, 16-almost-17-year-old 19# injectors were 10% plugged it could represent a 2.8HP loss, given that each cylinder contributes about 28HP to make the 225HP total. Like I said, the sparkplugs told me that I have cylinders running rich and I have cylinders running lean. You can't tell me that isn't reducing HP.

As far as smog goes, I've noticed that my Mustang has been getting worse over the last 3 smog tests.

The idle also isn't as smooth as it should be. Maybe new injectors will fix both problems. I'd been meaning to run a cylinder balance test to find out if any of the injectors are bad enough to fail that test, but since I discovered that they're leaking why bother if I'm just going to replace them.

As far as 24# injectors, after I make modifications where I think I might need them, I will use a DMM with a duty cycle function on my 19#s to make sure.

I ended up going with the reconditioned/tested 19# 4-hole spray injectors that Hyperjective sells on Ebay. $130 for a set of 8.
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:46 AM   #19
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Just in case anyone is interested, I've installed the 4-hole spray 19# injectors and here is what I've noticed. I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator while I was in there:

1)It starts up faster. Before:"crank crank crank crank crank VROOOOM". After:"crank crank VROOOOOM".

2)The idle is smoother.

3)Acceleration is smoother.

4)Gas mileage seems to be up (but this may also be due to replacing the faulty thermactor air (TAD) solenoid. See #5 below)

5)Really wierd--with the new fuel injectors and pressure regulator, the self-test can determine that the TAD solenoid is stuck upstream and give a code 45 for the problem, instead of just giving 41/91 lean codes. Initially it gave a 41/91 lean code and I did all of the diagnostics to find out that the TAD solenoid was stuck. I ordered a new TAD and TAB solenoid (might as well replace 'em both), but the injectors came before the TAB/TAD solenoids did so I installed the injectors and the pressure regulator and re-ran the KOER self-test, and got a code 45, theramactor air always upstream during self-test.
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255lph Walbro fuel pump, Excessive Motorsport East (Manassas,VA) subframe connectors, mass-air,
Trip computer from '83 T-bird, Mazda 4M32 CD head from '00 Protege, Blaupunkt PCx352 3.5" speakers
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Old 01-12-2005, 02:06 AM   #20
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Oh yes, one other thing..these injectors are from a 1992 or later Ford truck application. I looked up the engineering number in the 1993 Ford Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis manual's fuel injector chart.

"The Official Mustang 5.0 Techical Reference & Performance Handbook" by Al Kirschenbaum says this on page 266, note 1:

"Some sources have reported improved delivery characteristics from the truck injectors".
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Trip computer from '83 T-bird, Mazda 4M32 CD head from '00 Protege, Blaupunkt PCx352 3.5" speakers
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