Fox steering rack to SN95 rack - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Fox steering rack to SN95 rack

I have a read several threads, searched, but just a couple of loose ends....

Buying a 'cobra spec' rack (Cardone 222000), I am not 100% clear on what I need to get

New fox inner and outer tie rods, any issues with the inner bolting up? I am pretty sure the rack itself is unchanged since the 80's but want to make sure no issues with inner tie rods from fox

Steering shaft... I understand the premise of the MM hybrid unit, for for connection and to reduce slop from ditching the rag joint. My question is, is this 100% necessary?


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post #2 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 03:27 PM
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You don't need new outers unless yours are shot. Change to fox inners and your existing outers will thread right on. The inners are a direct swap on the rack, no issues there.

You need a hybrid shaft because the fox shaft is "D" shaped to fit the D-shaped input shaft on the rack. The SN95's input shaft is like a triangle with rounded corners and the fox shaft won't attach to it, no way no how.

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post #3 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muswagon3
New fox inner and outer tie rods, any issues with the inner bolting up? I am pretty sure the rack itself is unchanged since the 80's but want to make sure no issues with inner tie rods from fox?
I just did this swap myself. The Sn95 inners are pretty much identical to the fox units other than being metric threaded. Simply remove the Sn95 inners, and the fox ones go on the same way. Only difference is fox units use three roll pins to help secure the unit. Ford did away with this the Sn95 years.

As stated, if your existing outers are in good shape, you can reuse them.

I bought all new parts, set up the SN95 rack with the fox inners and outers, and then when pulled out my original rack, layed them side by side to take a measurement and adjust the outers to the same length as the fox rack before install.


Quote:
Originally Posted by muswagon3
Steering shaft... I understand the premise of the MM hybrid unit, for for connection and to reduce slop from ditching the rag joint. My question is, is this 100% necessary?
Yes, it's necessary unless you have the fabrication skills to weld up your own hybrid shaft. Also, the design of the MM shaft allows you to VERY easily center the steering wheel and steering rack. If you welded up your own shaft, you won't have this adjustability. My time spent centering the rack and wheel was all of 10 mins.

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post #4 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome guys, thx for the info. I have read another option if I don't want to change inners I can go with 93 Taurus outers (metric but FOX length)? They are $4 and change each for MOOG at Rock auto so maybe worth the risk

Anyway, all makes sense now so I will get my orders started. thx again

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post #5 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 06:05 PM
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93 Taurus ends do work
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post #6 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 11:04 PM
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I can def attest to the need for the MM shaft

I used a flaming river, was before MM had their hybrid shaft, and had to order separate joints and do the hybridization my self to get the wheel centered.....was not fun.
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post #7 of 27 Old 03-20-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by muswagon3 View Post
Awesome guys, thx for the info. I have read another option if I don't want to change inners I can go with 93 Taurus outers (metric but FOX length)? They are $4 and change each for MOOG at Rock auto so maybe worth the risk

Anyway, all makes sense now so I will get my orders started. thx again
However, the SN95 inners are a lot longer than the Fox inners, and some people can't get enough adjustment out of them to eliminate massive toe-out unless they cut the SN95 inners shorter.
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post #8 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 01:54 AM
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Use Fox inner and outer tie rods. No modifying needed. When you need to replace something later, there is no extra work involved.

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post #9 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed. Bought a 95GT rack from a buddy for $50 just to give it a try, I can test it with my used fox inners and outers before making an investment on a new Cobra spec rack which I will get new fox inners and outers for. I did order taurus ends, they were $2.50 each so the risk is very low if they don't line up well with SN inners vs Fox stuff.

Either way I need the MM hybrid shaft (MMST-13 correct??), so that is my only larger cost item with this experiment. They seem to sell at good values so if I don't like this for any reason I am sure I can get alot of my investment back.

Going to pull engine this weekend and get this stuff started, then the 408 finds its new home

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post #10 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 03:21 PM
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Either way I need the MM hybrid shaft (MMST-13 correct??), so that is my only larger cost item with this experiment. They seem to sell at good values so if I don't like this for any reason I am sure I can get alot of my investment back.
Yes. you need the shaft. Sn95 rack swaps seem to be catching on, so I'm sure you would be able to easily recoop most of your cost.


This swap really isn't just about using an 03/04 Cobra rack. The later GT racks are pretty good and any SN95 rack is supposedly better than the fox racks. My fox rack felt so loose and overassisted that I could drive and turn with my pinky finger. Now it actually feels like a modern car with some feedback.

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post #11 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mike,

That is really all I am after. I hate the 70's overassist feel. If the $50 rack feels good than one and done. If not, Cardone mystery 222000 rack to the rescue.

Car should be tight. rear upper and lower tubular control arms/poly, front poly sway bushings and poly links, prothane front control arm bushings, prothane rack bushings, MM steering shaft and SN95 rack. Hoping I get the modern feel from in my opinion is the nicest Mustang interior ever (91 with tweed seats)

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post #12 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 08:42 PM
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Did this on my 4 cylinder '93. Yeah I know...gutless, but it's a DD that I expect good MPG out of, so I have to make it at least somewhat more fun to drive somehow. Anyway, yes, the MM shaft is the only way to go. I welded my own up at one point and it worked but you have to get creative when you do it, otherwise there's no way to center the steering wheel once it's welded. It worked but was not optimal. Just bought the expensive MM shaft. I'm sure a guy could make one but by time you buy the joints and shaft components, you're almost at the same price. Just get it and be done with it if you can. It makes a BIG difference in how it drives-especially on mine since it's an original 4 cyl car with 20:1 original rack, which was somewhat like driving a school bus compared to the SN95 rack. The parts store had a hard time getting the 22-2000 rack that I ordered specifically. They didn't want to sell it to me for a fox body, so I told 'em it was for an '04 Cobra and then they sold it to me. Typical parts store computer jockey. Even then, it took almost 5 weeks to get it-which makes me wonder if they're running low on rebuild supplies or what? Dunno-I didn't ask.

I still have work to do with it; but it drives straight and is real responsive-it just feels almost as if there's not enough caster. Tramlines pretty good, even at zero toe. I've tried it all different ways but it just feels like it ain't got enough caster.
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post #13 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Not enough caster, is it pushing or diving into turns?

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post #14 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 08:56 PM
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Anyone have a part number for the MM shaft?

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post #15 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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MMST-13

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post #16 of 27 Old 03-22-2017, 10:13 PM
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Anyone have a pic of the 22-2000 rack input shaft?

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post #17 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraFirma View Post
Anyone have a pic of the 22-2000 rack input shaft?

Only pic I have is one with me test fitting the MM steering shaft




But, same as any other SN95 rack input. It's triangle shaped, like this, without any splines like the fox rack
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post #18 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 09:16 PM
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Thanks for the pics. I currently have a flaming river manual rack in the car and can't remember what the input shaft on it looks like. I'm hoping it's like the SN95 so I can use the current steering shaft.

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post #19 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 09:33 PM
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All Flaming River manual steering racks use a splined input shaft.

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post #20 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 10:48 PM
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All Flaming River manual steering racks use a splined input shaft.
Yeah, a vaguely remember that. So I would need the part mentioned earlier in the thread? MMST-13

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post #21 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 11:17 PM
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I have no idea.

What year and model car do you have?

What year and model steering rack are you putting in the car?

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post #22 of 27 Old 03-23-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by muswagon3 View Post
Not enough caster, is it pushing or diving into turns?
My guess as well based on how it drives. I ordered a set of CC plates, since the stock onion head deals are shot...and it's getting new struts anyway, so why not. Sure makes setting camber and caster a lot easier with the MM CC plates. On my old car, which had the MM CC plates, I took it to the alignment shop after I did my own baseline at home in the garage, and gave him what I was shooting for. He said the right side caster was off by 0.1, everything else was spot on. I had serious doubts with the DIY alignment tech on this forum, but it works pretty good.

Back to topic. I called Borgeson at one time looking for a U-joint for the SN rack input, and they were calling it the "mustang vee" style input, if that helps you any. It's like a triangle (or vee) with one side rounded, just as the picture above shows. No splines. Don't know why Ford changed, but they did.

For those who are doing the SN into a fox swap, the rack input shaft can be re-clocked so that your steering wheel can be centered properly, but you have to take the rack apart....or pay a rack technician to do it. It's not hard apparently. Forget where I seen the article, but it was a DIY deal, but he had to replace the seal on the input shaft. I don't recall whether the author was using a homemade SN-to-fox shaft or a Borgeson shaft or what? Might google search it, I seem to remember it was on stangnet or some other site.
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post #23 of 27 Old 03-24-2017, 04:10 PM
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I have no idea.

What year and model car do you have?

What year and model steering rack are you putting in the car?
Guess that would help.
88 mustang. Currently has a flaming river manual rack with the steering shaft that came with the rack.
Looking into putting in an 03-04 steering rack to get power steering back.
Would a stock SN95 steering shaft work in the meanwhile?

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post #24 of 27 Old 03-24-2017, 04:17 PM
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A steering shaft designed for an SN95 Mustang can not be used in a Fox chassis car. The steering column and shaft designs are totally incompatible.

To install an SN95 steering rack in your car, you will need an MMST-13.

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post #25 of 27 Old 03-24-2017, 06:22 PM
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A steering shaft designed for an SN95 Mustang can not be used in a Fox chassis car. The steering column and shaft designs are totally incompatible.

To install an SN95 steering rack in your car, you will need an MMST-13.
Thought so. Thanks.

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post #26 of 27 Old 03-27-2017, 05:59 PM
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Only pic I have is one with me test fitting the MM steering shaft




But, same as any other SN95 rack input. It's triangle shaped, like this, without any splines like the fox rack

Where did you buy the sn95 rack?
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post #27 of 27 Old 03-27-2017, 06:47 PM
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Where did you buy the sn95 rack?

It's a Cardone 22-2000 reman rack supposedly the SPR ZM spec for the 03.04 cobra. I just googled the P/N and chose the best vendor option I found for it.

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