starter staying on after car starts - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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starter staying on after car starts

I'm having a problem with a 1994 mustang GT that I'm working on, after that car is running the starter stays engaged. Now if I remove the starter relay from the fuse box when this is happening the starter stops and the car continues to run like normal, so this leads me to believe there is a problem between the steering column and fuse/relay box under the hood. Anybody got any ideas? Could the ignition switch cause this if it was bad and are there anyways to check that?

The car has a new starter and a new ignition cylinder/key switch(old on was broke)


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post #2 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 03:08 AM
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I thick the solenoid for the starter is sticking.

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post #3 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 07:29 AM
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Whoever installed the new starter may have gotten the wiring a bit mixed up. On the mini-starters, the big cable running to the starter is supposed to be hot all the time. The little wire is switched from fender relay. The old, big one-wire starters had the big cable on the switched side of that relay so the big cable was hot only when you turn the ignition switch to 'start' and the fender relay engages. If you hook the mini-starter up that way, the symptom is that the starter keeps running after you try to start the car.

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post #4 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 11:21 AM
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Mini starter wiring http://www.fordracingparts.com/downl...-B51-MT164.pdf

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post #5 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure the wiring is 100% percent correct, the large wire is going to the large lug on the starter and it is hot all the time since it comes off the battery, the small wire is going to the small lug and should only be hot when cranking but that's the problem. The small wire is staying hot for some reason. If I turn the ignition all the way off everything turns off(its not like the starter is staying on all the time) All the wiring is hooked up like it should on both ends of the wire(it would be pretty hard to get them mixed up IMO) this problem doesn't happen all the time. It hasn't done it for about 4 months and now it started doing it again a week before its sets to get dyno tuned.

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post #6 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 01:39 PM
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«1992 Mustang Service Manual Table of Contents»
«Group 03: ENGINE»
«Section 03-06: Starting System»
«DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING»



System Inspection

CAUTION:
When disconnecting the plastic hardshell connector at the solenoid "S" terminal, grasp the plastic connector and pull lead off. DO NOT pull separately on lead wire.

WARNING:
WHEN SERVICING STARTER OR PERFORMING OTHER UNDERHOOD WORK IN THE VICINITY OF THE STARTER, BE AWARE THAT THE HEAVY GAUGE BATTERY INPUT LEAD AT THE STARTER SOLENOID IS "ELECTRICALLY HOT" AT ALL TIMES.

A protective cap or boot is provided over this terminal on all carlines and must be replaced after servicing. Be sure to disconnect battery negative cable before servicing starter.

1. Inspect starting system for loose connections.

2. If system does not operate properly, note condition and continue diagnosis using the symptom chart.

WARNING:
WHEN WORKING IN AREA OF THE STARTER, BE CAREFUL TO AVOID TOUCHING HOT EXHAUST COMPONENTS.


SYMPTOM CHART

Condition(s):
o Starter solenoid does not pull-in and starter does not crank (Audible click may or may not be heard).

o Unusual starter noise during starter overrun.

o Starter cranks but engine does not start.

o Starter cranks slowly.

o Starter remains engaged and runs with engine.

Possible Source(s):
§ Shorted ignition switch.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Refer to appropriate ignition system section in this manual.

Possible Source(s):
§ Battery cable touching solenoid 'S' terminal (defective or mispositioned cable).

Action(s) to Take:
§ Replace or relocate cable and replace starter.

Possible Source(s):
§ Defective starter.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Replace starter. See «removal and installation» procedure.

John

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post #7 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbaltz View Post
«1992 Mustang Service Manual Table of Contents»
«Group 03: ENGINE»
«Section 03-06: Starting System»
«DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING»



System Inspection

CAUTION:
When disconnecting the plastic hardshell connector at the solenoid "S" terminal, grasp the plastic connector and pull lead off. DO NOT pull separately on lead wire.

WARNING:
WHEN SERVICING STARTER OR PERFORMING OTHER UNDERHOOD WORK IN THE VICINITY OF THE STARTER, BE AWARE THAT THE HEAVY GAUGE BATTERY INPUT LEAD AT THE STARTER SOLENOID IS "ELECTRICALLY HOT" AT ALL TIMES.

A protective cap or boot is provided over this terminal on all carlines and must be replaced after servicing. Be sure to disconnect battery negative cable before servicing starter.

1. Inspect starting system for loose connections.

2. If system does not operate properly, note condition and continue diagnosis using the symptom chart.

WARNING:
WHEN WORKING IN AREA OF THE STARTER, BE CAREFUL TO AVOID TOUCHING HOT EXHAUST COMPONENTS.


SYMPTOM CHART

Condition(s):
o Starter solenoid does not pull-in and starter does not crank (Audible click may or may not be heard).

o Unusual starter noise during starter overrun.

o Starter cranks but engine does not start.

o Starter cranks slowly.

o Starter remains engaged and runs with engine.

Possible Source(s):
§ Shorted ignition switch.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Refer to appropriate ignition system section in this manual.

Possible Source(s):
§ Battery cable touching solenoid 'S' terminal (defective or mispositioned cable).

Action(s) to Take:
§ Replace or relocate cable and replace starter.

Possible Source(s):
§ Defective starter.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Replace starter. See «removal and installation» procedure.
From this Im thinking its the ignition switch, the cable isn't touching the signal wire(this would cause the starter to run all the time I believe) and it has done this with 2 known good starters so the starter isn't the problem.

So is there anyway to test the ignition switch or is it just a replace it and see if it works deal?

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post #8 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 02:59 PM
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I would look at the ignition switch. Sounds like you replaced it so maybe something is sticking when you crank it.


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post #9 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 03:01 PM
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If you can get an '94 EVTM it will have a section on how to test the ignition switch. It is page 149-02 Component Testing:Ignition Switch in the '92 EVTM.

John

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post #10 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 03:02 PM
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Since this is for an sn95 94 GT:


Yank the relay after the car starts:
Use a test-light or DVM/VOM/voltmeter to see if the relay is getting power on the white/pink wire - it likely is.
Sounds like the ignition switch, but, since the ignition cylinder/key switch were replaced, it may be sticking, put in wrong, etc.

From a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1994...starter+wiring

94 - 98 Alternator Starting and Charging Wiring Diagram | Mustang Fuse & Wiring Diagrams



Good Luck!


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post #11 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangPlus2Birds View Post
Since this is for an sn95 94 GT:


Yank the relay after the car starts:
Use a test-light or DVM/VOM/voltmeter to see if the relay is getting power on the white/pink wire - it likely is.
Sounds like the ignition switch, but, since the ignition cylinder/key switch were replaced, it may be sticking, put in wrong, etc.

From a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1994...starter+wiring

94 - 98 Alternator Starting and Charging Wiring Diagram | Mustang Fuse & Wiring Diagrams



Good Luck!
Thanks for the info! I put 2 different key switch's in the car and that didn't change(they didn't feel like they were sticking and they were put in right)

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post #12 of 12 Old 07-19-2014, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangPlus2Birds View Post
Since this is for an sn95 94 GT:


Yank the relay after the car starts:
Use a test-light or DVM/VOM/voltmeter to see if the relay is getting power on the white/pink wire - it likely is.
Sounds like the ignition switch, but, since the ignition cylinder/key switch were replaced, it may be sticking, put in wrong, etc.

From a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1994...starter+wiring

94 - 98 Alternator Starting and Charging Wiring Diagram | Mustang Fuse & Wiring Diagrams



Good Luck!
Oh and last night I checked the relay terminals(but not the wire color) and one of them is hot whenever the key is on, its the back middle one. Ill check the color on that one tomorrow.

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