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Old 08-14-2002, 12:00 AM   #1
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Question Side impact bar removal

How difficult is this to perform? I'm too lazy to pull off my panels to check. How much weight savings?
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Old 08-14-2002, 12:05 AM   #2
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i think that they are actually molded or spot welded to the inside of the door panel. This is what I remember from when i had my doors apart. I don't think you would really benifit from removing them... There is always the saftey issue, and personally, from the amount gained, i would leave them in there.
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Old 08-14-2002, 08:18 AM   #3
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Yea, even if it's a track car only... leave it in there... the few pounds you'd be saving wouldn't outweigh your life in an unfortunate event... even with a roll bar or cage... it's not worth the trouble and the couple pound weight savings.
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Old 08-14-2002, 10:39 AM   #4
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Weight savings is about 30lbs. (both doors)

The bars are welded to the door frame, If you have electric windows, leave em in.

Manual windows, the regulator is a pain, but it can stay in the car. AN air driven cutoof wheel is the best tool to use, all the electric stuff is too large to fit, or too small (dremel) to be effective.

HAve to cut them into 3 to 4 pieces to get them out. OR you need to really OPEN up the inner access area. Late model stuff, later than 1987, has some of that sticky expanding foam between the brace and the door skin.. Snaking a piece of wire between the two makes it easier to get the door beam out.

If its a street car at all, leave em in.
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Old 08-14-2002, 10:38 PM   #5
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Thanks, KIM that's what I was looking for. I really wasn't to concerned about saftey, but it sounds like too much work for 30lbs.
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Old 08-15-2002, 03:39 PM   #6
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I'd been planning on removing them as well once my rollbar goes in. It doesn't sound like that much work for THIRTY pounds!

Why not do it if power windows are there, though??

I don't see how they could be anywhere near as strong as the rollbar door bars. I understand that you guys are saying "leave them in" as a liability thing, but that's a pretty decent weight savings, don't you think?
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Old 08-15-2002, 03:45 PM   #7
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What's 30lbs translate to at the strip, .0000005 seconds. Doesn't seem worth compromising safety to me. Working on your driving is probably better time spent.
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Old 08-15-2002, 06:06 PM   #8
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30 pounds makes up for the subframes...

losing weight is sometimes cheaper than buying more power.

i'd like my doors to drop 20 pounds each.
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Old 08-15-2002, 08:05 PM   #9
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I helped my roomate do this in his 87 GT track/street car. We removed the door panels and the window mechanisms/motors. Then took an air grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut the inner door sheetmetal off. Then we cut the reinforcement pieces out in one-piece. They felt like they weighed more than 15lbs each. Then we tack welded the inner door sheetmetal back in. He can still roll his windows up or down because we left the window track intact. We just drilled a hole through it just at the bottom of the window with the window all the way up. Now you just stick a metal pin into that hole and it holds the window up. He used velcro to re-attach the door panels....because you have to remove the door panel in order to pull the pin to put the window down. With the velcro on the door panels, it only takes a second to take them off. With the door panels on, you cannot even tell it's been done.

With the removal of the support pieces, window regulators, and window motors, you will ditch more than 30 lbs. He has been thinking of taking out the inner door panels that we tack welded back on because they will help lose even more weight and they are'nt required to hold the door panels on.
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Old 08-16-2002, 06:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cobra195
What's 30lbs translate to at the strip, .0000005 seconds. Doesn't seem worth compromising safety to me. Working on your driving is probably better time spent.
.03 second
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Old 08-16-2002, 12:21 PM   #11
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I removed my side impact beams. I didn't have a die grinder so I cut both ends with a dremel and with a propane torch, I heated the beam in the areas that were bonded to the skin. the bonding stuff turned loose without damaging the skin. Instead of removing the manual window mechanism, I used a piece of steel as a shield between the beam and the skin and cut the beam in half with an oxi/acetylene torch. This allowed easy removal of the beam. Each side was 15 lbs. It was a PITA but I don't care...
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Old 08-16-2002, 03:40 PM   #12
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the '94+ mustangs' bars weigh slightly less. instead of a flat piece of metal, they are bars like rollcage bars. I used a die grinder and went to town, didnt have to take out the windows or tracks or anything. just FYI.
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Old 08-16-2002, 10:18 PM   #13
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Hmmm

Some thoughts that came to my mind when I started to read this thread:

1. Will the car be for track use only?
2. If driven on the street, will I ever have passengers?
3. If I sell the car or lend it to someone, can I be sucessfully sued should the evidence point to removal of the bars as contributing to injuries or death during a crash?
4. Do I have alot to lose ? or do my parents if under 18 ? (like a house and/or something worth alot)
5. Is it illegal to remove ? (I don't know the answer to this)
6. Is it really worth my time to do this?

I don't want to tell you what to do, but would suggest you think about the advantages/disadvantages of the subject at hand before you make a decision.
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Old 08-17-2002, 12:21 AM   #14
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Re: Hmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by 91GTFiveO
Some thoughts that came to my mind when I started to read this thread:

1. Will the car be for track use only?
2. If driven on the street, will I ever have passengers?
3. If I sell the car or lend it to someone, can I be sucessfully sued should the evidence point to removal of the bars as contributing to injuries or death during a crash?
4. Do I have alot to lose ? or do my parents if under 18 ? (like a house and/or something worth alot)
5. Is it illegal to remove ? (I don't know the answer to this)
6. Is it really worth my time to do this?

I don't want to tell you what to do, but would suggest you think about the advantages/disadvantages of the subject at hand before you make a decision.
You're right. I wouldn't remove them from a "grocery getter".
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Old 08-17-2002, 12:41 AM   #15
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Re: Re: Hmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by SSSTANG


You're right. I wouldn't remove them from a "grocery getter".
Ahh, hey now! Don't worry yourself. Your '81 will promptly self-destruct upon impact faster that you can say I wish I had an airbag!
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Old 08-17-2002, 08:32 AM   #16
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I do agree with the last group of comments, but i removed mine after the roll cage was installed...
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Old 08-19-2002, 12:04 PM   #17
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Re: Hmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by 91GTFiveO
Some thoughts that came to my mind when I started to read this thread:

1. Will the car be for track use only?
2. If driven on the street, will I ever have passengers?
3. If I sell the car or lend it to someone, can I be sucessfully sued should the evidence point to removal of the bars as contributing to injuries or death during a crash?
4. Do I have alot to lose ? or do my parents if under 18 ? (like a house and/or something worth alot)
5. Is it illegal to remove ? (I don't know the answer to this)
6. Is it really worth my time to do this?

I don't want to tell you what to do, but would suggest you think about the advantages/disadvantages of the subject at hand before you make a decision.
All very good points. I totally agree. The car we did this to is a mostly track car (few street races), but the car has a full cage with the side bars.

If anyone was to remove the stock door supports, you should definitely make sure you have the side bars and a cage in it just like Turbo Dan (nice car BTW).
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Old 08-19-2002, 02:25 PM   #18
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Thumbs up

That's awesome that you guys have added stronger structural safety enhancements to the car before removing the stock stuff. That's what I would do (and possibly might down the road) if I were to transform my "grocery getting" stockish '91 GT into a track star or superstreet car.

My comments were directed to those who simply wish to remove "unnecessary weight" to make their car "faster" without compensating for its removal. I know alot of people that visit this site are fairly informed about track safety requirements and that my previous comments may be quite obvious and what not, but just wanted to list them for someone who had not thought about it.

Anyway, I agree Turbo Dan's car is nice. I wouldn't want to be riding in the back though, LOL!
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Old 08-19-2002, 06:07 PM   #19
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Thanks for the compliments guys, i dont think many people would fit in the back now anyways!! haha.. But yeah, dont go nuts with safety stuff on a car (and the removing of.....) Over the years i've seen some wacky **** happen, and I dont think i'd take the beams out if you didnt have a bar/cage in the car. Back in the day I would have taken it out without question.
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Old 08-22-2002, 01:32 PM   #20
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A Point to Ponder

The one thing that I would worry about if you have removed the stock side impact door bars and you don't have nascar style door bars, but do have a roll cage with angled "door" bars would be the following:

The one thing that is important when analyzing exactly what goes on during a crash is that you have to understand how the person and vehicle absorb the energy from the crash.

Energy can be absorbed two different ways, either through deformation of material (car structure crushing and bending) and directly through the occupant. Sound, light and heat are also ways of dissipating crash energy, but they defer a negligable amount of total energy, so they should be ignored.

The argument of having as rigid of a structure as possible is normally thought of as the “ideal” condition for a collision (12 point roll cage) but sort of breaks down. A car made from solid steel would sure be rigid, but approximately 99% of the crash energy will be absorbed by the passengers of the car (assuming what you crashed into was also perfectly rigid).

Therefore, you need to design in some deformation characteristics into your system (car) to dissipate the crash energy. Leaving the stock door bars in will give you some of this ability to lessen the impact seen by the driver and passengers (if applicable). These stock bars will absorb some of the impact energy before the side roll cage bar begins to buckle and absorb energy.

Also, the lack of the stock side impact bars will just move the effective point of collision closer to the driver. This will allow more of the crash energy to dissipate in the form of the side bar from the roll cage deforming. The majority of the cages I have seen put that diagonal bar pretty close to the people in the driver’s seat. Therefore, there wouldn’t have to be much intrusion of that bar until it starts breaking bones and screwing up internal organs.

NASCAR style bars are designed to be angled out so when the car is hit from the side, some of the bars are put into compression instead of pure bending. The gives the structure the ability to withstand massive deformation is increased and therefore intrusion is limited in lower speed crashes. Also, the NASCAR style door bars give probably close to 10-12 inches of intrusion capability before the driver makes contact with the bars.

Just my .02
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Old 08-23-2002, 06:02 AM   #21
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Thanks for the replies, people. The car is a street car that will be primarily raced at the track. It went low 11's and I want to get a 10.99 pass on the motor,w/out major modifications. I'd say I drive the thing on the street maybe 1000-2000 miles a year. I'm looking for weight reduction tips, yet I want stock looking interior, body etc. BTW. I already have a roll cage and the odds of removing the side bars affecting any rare occurence of a major accident outcome is not a concern.
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Old 08-27-2002, 06:29 AM   #22
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Do what ever you want, it's your car and your life. Wish you well.
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