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Old 12-02-2011, 12:14 AM   #1
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SVE weight jacker LCAs from LRS

...they are exactly like the MM ones. And they are bitchin.

That is all.

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Old 12-02-2011, 12:16 AM   #2
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Pics or it didn't happen! LOL...got any good pics
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:47 AM   #3
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Pix! It happened.





Edit: only gotcha was figuring out which side each one belonged to. The Max Motorsports instructions provided the answer, but then again so would putting them on backwards and finding out the swaybar won't bolt up.

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Old 12-02-2011, 01:10 AM   #4
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those are badass, but let us in on the tip, which side is which?
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:12 AM   #5
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Bottom one is passenger side.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:18 AM   #6
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cool, so the sway bar mount favor the outside. those look great and the price is right. what uppers are you running?
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:37 AM   #7
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Exactly. The swaybar then mounts to the inside, which allows it to clear the adjuster.

Uppers are old school unknown brand tubular. They were on the car when I got it. I put sphericals in the axle housing uppers and the UCAs have poly on the chassis side. Panhard bar is next!

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Old 12-02-2011, 03:11 PM   #8
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So is LMR pulling a UPR and copying the good stuff rather than engineering it?
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:03 PM   #9
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What is the difference between these and the maga bite jr's everybody is raving about? do they both do the same thing?? just another way to skin a cat ?
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtrracer View Post
So is LMR pulling a UPR and copying the good stuff rather than engineering it?
Doubt that highly...Doesnt take much search to see that numerous companies amke the almost same identical design. Grantelli is one of them...

Steeda and BMR make practicallyt identical tubular units, only one brand is about $200 less in price.

MM design definately wasnt the first design of that kind...
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:54 PM   #11
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Doubt that highly... MM design definately wasnt the first design of that kind...
And you have evidence to support that assertion?
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:07 PM   #12
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No assumption here...Pretty easy to look up dates when MM started shelling out items and when other with the identical same design started shelling theres out. Not too mention the price hike that MM started applying to there EXACT same control arms when there name was marketed so much they got alot of attention and started selling stuff alot faster. So they price hiked there crap and claimed "superior" designs and craftsmanship, when its not damn different that the cheaper the competitors.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:50 AM   #13
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03GT,

The issue here is not that SVE (really GMS) has been selling a RLCA that happens to have a weight jacker in it for the lower spring perch. Control arms with weight jackers in them are over 45 years old. The issue here is theft of trade dress. SVE/GMS is very clearly, intentionally selling an RCLA that has a cosmetic appearance that is as identical as possible to the RLCA that MM designed many years ago. The curvature is the same. The visible construction technique is the same. The same type of bolt is used to secure the lower perch to the weight jack screw. The color of the anodizing of the weight jack screw is the same. Any one that looks at photos of each RLCA can clearly see that the SVE/GMS RLCA is an attempt at a forgery of the MM RLCA.

You seem to be an expert on our pricing, so I'd like to see a list of dates and retail prices over the last 10 years for the MM RLCAs in question here. Please show me the so called price hikes that have occurred.

After you have posted your list, I'll post the actual retail price changes for this product over the last 10 years. We'll see how accurate you are.

Given that the price of steel has doubled in the last 10 years, the price of these RLCAs should have gone up at least 50%. The reality is that they haven't.

world steel prices - price charts - pig iron, scrap, billet, slab, hrc, rebar - pricing history

Given the rate of US inflation over the last 10 years, they should have also gone up in price another 4.4%.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...eInflation.jpg

Given the increase in steel prices and inflation, they have gone DOWN in price quite a lot.

I don't know why you make the assumption that the MM RLCAs have been "EXACT same" for the last ten years. Were you involved in the design of them? No. Have you taken any of them apart and examined the components, welding, metallurgy, bushing design, etc periodically over the last ten years? I'll bet not. In reality there have been a number of improvements made over this time period to the RLCAs.

It is funny that you mention the superior MM design with a sarcastic tone. Given that SVE/GMS didn't design ANYTHING here, virtually ANY MM design would be better. SVE/GMS simply sent some MM RLCAs to a sales rep in the US for a manufacturer in China to copy. There is no design involved in that at all.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
03GT,

The issue here is not that SVE (really GMS) has been selling a RLCA that happens to have a weight jacker in it for the lower spring perch. Control arms with weight jackers in them are over 45 years old. The issue here is theft of trade dress. SVE/GMS is very clearly, intentionally selling an RCLA that has a cosmetic appearance that is as identical as possible to the RLCA that MM designed many years ago. The curvature is the same. The visible construction technique is the same. The same type of bolt is used to secure the lower perch to the weight jack screw. The color of the anodizing of the weight jack screw is the same. Any one that looks at photos of each RLCA can clearly see that the SVE/GMS RLCA is an attempt at a forgery of the MM RLCA.

You seem to be an expert on our pricing, so I'd like to see a list of dates and retail prices over the last 10 years for the MM RLCAs in question here. Please show me the so called price hikes that have occurred.

After you have posted your list, I'll post the actual retail price changes for this product over the last 10 years. We'll see how accurate you are.

Given that the price of steel has doubled in the last 10 years, the price of these RLCAs should have gone up at least 50%. The reality is that they haven't.

world steel prices - price charts - pig iron, scrap, billet, slab, hrc, rebar - pricing history

Given the rate of US inflation over the last 10 years, they should have also gone up in price another 4.4%.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...eInflation.jpg

Given the increase in steel prices and inflation, they have gone DOWN in price quite a lot.

I don't know why you make the assumption that the MM RLCAs have been "EXACT same" for the last ten years. Were you involved in the design of them? No. Have you taken any of them apart and examined the components, welding, metallurgy, bushing design, etc periodically over the last ten years? I'll bet not. In reality there have been a number of improvements made over this time period to the RLCAs.

It is funny that you mention the superior MM design with a sarcastic tone. Given that SVE/GMS didn't design ANYTHING here, virtually ANY MM design would be better. SVE/GMS simply sent some MM RLCAs to a sales rep in the US for a manufacturer in China to copy. There is no design involved in that at all.

Mr.hidley can you answer my question??

What is the difference between these and the maga bite jr's everybody is raving about? do they both do the same thing?? just another way to skin a cat ?
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:15 AM   #15
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Drama.

The SVEs were $130 on Black Friday. If MM had done something similar, even dropped the price on theirs a little, I would have bought theirs, but I have to budget just like every other normal person and that was a killer price for a knock off. I debated for quite a while knowing it was getting a Chinese copy. The price difference won out. It was a huge difference and I couldnt justify the MMs.

I will, however, be purchasing their prop valve, prop valve elim kit, PHB and other parts because the pricing on all those makes huge sense and the product quality seems top notch.

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Old 12-04-2011, 12:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
03GT,

The issue here is not that SVE (really GMS) has been selling a RLCA that happens to have a weight jacker in it for the lower spring perch. Control arms with weight jackers in them are over 45 years old. The issue here is theft of trade dress. SVE/GMS is very clearly, intentionally selling an RCLA that has a cosmetic appearance that is as identical as possible to the RLCA that MM designed many years ago. The curvature is the same. The visible construction technique is the same. The same type of bolt is used to secure the lower perch to the weight jack screw. The color of the anodizing of the weight jack screw is the same. Any one that looks at photos of each RLCA can clearly see that the SVE/GMS RLCA is an attempt at a forgery of the MM RLCA.

You seem to be an expert on our pricing, so I'd like to see a list of dates and retail prices over the last 10 years for the MM RLCAs in question here. Please show me the so called price hikes that have occurred.

After you have posted your list, I'll post the actual retail price changes for this product over the last 10 years. We'll see how accurate you are.

Given that the price of steel has doubled in the last 10 years, the price of these RLCAs should have gone up at least 50%. The reality is that they haven't.

world steel prices - price charts - pig iron, scrap, billet, slab, hrc, rebar - pricing history

Given the rate of US inflation over the last 10 years, they should have also gone up in price another 4.4%.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...eInflation.jpg

Given the increase in steel prices and inflation, they have gone DOWN in price quite a lot.

I don't know why you make the assumption that the MM RLCAs have been "EXACT same" for the last ten years. Were you involved in the design of them? No. Have you taken any of them apart and examined the components, welding, metallurgy, bushing design, etc periodically over the last ten years? I'll bet not. In reality there have been a number of improvements made over this time period to the RLCAs.

It is funny that you mention the superior MM design with a sarcastic tone. Given that SVE/GMS didn't design ANYTHING here, virtually ANY MM design would be better. SVE/GMS simply sent some MM RLCAs to a sales rep in the US for a manufacturer in China to copy. There is no design involved in that at all.


You sir, are my new Corral hero. Well-written. If you were at the NMRA event in California this year, I probably met you. I spent quite a bit of time in your booth with my friend that was shopping for parts for his SSC.

BTW, I run MM subframe connectors, adjustable LCA's and am shooting for a panhard bar next. Great products and quality. No Chinese knockoff crap on any of my cars.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #17
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Mr.hidley can you answer my question??

What is the difference between these and the maga bite jr's everybody is raving about? do they both do the same thing?? just another way to skin a cat ?
The weight jacker style control arms are completely different than mega bit or southside machine lower control arms. The weight jacker control arms simply raise or lower the ride height of the car. The megabite/SSM style bars have an extra bracket that the lower control arm mounts and changes the angle of the lower control arm to change the IC location and add more antisquat. the 2 different styles of control arms look nothing a like and have different characteristics all together.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wythors View Post
No Chinese knockoff crap on any of my cars.
Nice "subtle" dig. Stay classy, bud.

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Old 12-04-2011, 09:28 PM   #19
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If SVE is ripping off the MM product so blatently, then how come MM does not go after them for infringement or some form of patent foregery? Im guessing its because that MM doesnt own that patent...

Also I know very well the price hike that MM has taken in the past 10 years, and blaming it on the steel prices is just a crap way of avoiding the real cause of just charging that cause they can. if the price of steel had jumped that much, then other companies that make steel control arms would have hiked there prices as well. But crazy as it is, you can still get the steeda steel arms at the same price they was 8 years ago when I purchased them the first time and at that time the MM weight jackers was in the $275ish range if I recall correctly. not for sure off the top of my head because I didnt buy them due to that price tag.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:31 PM   #20
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Also, why is it that a company such as SVE can make the exact same product as you claim and charge so much less for the product? Granatelli chagres a much cheaper price as well, and there arms have rebuildable joints in them if you somehow manage to tear them up.

I stand by my original statement, MM charges WAY too much for there products. In today's economy companies like that, that rely on the everyday racers to pay the bills, will not make it much longer. People will eventually realize they do not need to pay for the name "Maximum Motorsports" when they can get the exact same product for 1/4 the price without the sticker.

Now im not saying MM has a bad product by any means, I will probably argue they are some of the best products on the market. Most people do not know that simply because they dont know about metal and what it takes to make strong metal parts for cars in hard stress areas like the control arms. Anyone with any welding knowledge can quickly tell you the MM products are top quality and there control efforts really work. But at the same time I will never buy a set of $450 control arms, when I can get the SVE's for that price.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:42 PM   #21
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Please be careful when you compare 2 things and say they are the same. Be even more careful when you use words like EXACTLY. I'm positive you didn't have them side by side, that you didn't know the specs on the materials each brand uses and most obviously that you didn't pay attention to the most obvious thing, the welds of each brand. I have run several brands of suspension products over the last 19yrs. I only have experience in Fox bodies, having owned an 86' and 88' in the past and currently an 89' and 93'. The 89' I have owned for about 12yrs now. It's gone from street to strip and now built to go around corners as well. It has had 4 different RLCA that I can remember. This last set I purchased I did so based on the requirements of the car's intended purpose. I plan to autox, open track, drag race, street drive and even Texas Mile the car. This is an incredible task to accomplish. With everything else that has to be right to do all these things, my build has spiraled out of control and the cost with it. I did the motor, tranny, brakes, and paint before I bought the suspension. This of course had me thinking more about trying to "cheap out". I bought a set of front control arms from Maximum motorsports and have NEVER let price interfere with selection of suspension parts since. Knowing they engineer their own parts and test them on their shop car is awesome. Seeing the quality of the welds makes you appreciate the ART of welding and fabricating. The hardware that is included with their parts when needed reflects their total commitment to quality without sacrifice. If and when I get to reach speeds of 185+MPH, I will not be questioning my suspension. I'm sure some doubt will be going through my head about something failing right before I hit the loud pedal but it will probably be about the motor or tranny or something. MM's parts are built just about bomb proof. They go on with no hassle, they look great and perform well.

If cost is what keeps you from buying a quality product.....SAVE LONGER!!! I now have the Maximum Grip Box. I couldn't buy it all at once, I didn't get the price break that comes from ordering everything at once. What I do have is the best built parts for a Mustang that are on the market and not designed for drag racing. Because I work in a chemical plant, safety is a huge concern of mine. I have no doubt about the construction and integrity of MM's stuff. Ask yourself how much your life is worth, and, if it's not much than take a chance with other stuff that's made in a foreign land with questionable materials at best by people with questionable training and experience.

When I started racing, my wife bought be a Simpson Bandit helmet that cost more than $450. I thought she was insane because I could have bought alot of stuff at the time for that kind of money (I hustle ALOT for deals). When I asked her why she said, "Well how much would a new head cost?" Some things are worth it and some things are worth a little MORE.

Think it over very carefully. Just my 2 cents. Plus help support America and not China! Sorry this got long, I'm just becoming more passionate about some things in my old age. God bless!
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:58 PM   #22
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The weight jacker style control arms are completely different than mega bit or southside machine lower control arms. The weight jacker control arms simply raise or lower the ride height of the car. The megabite/SSM style bars have an extra bracket that the lower control arm mounts and changes the angle of the lower control arm to change the IC location and add more antisquat. the 2 different styles of control arms look nothing a like and have different characteristics all together.
thank you sir, i appricate that info. not to be a noob, but what is IC ??

can you explain or eloberate what one does over the other?? id appreciate that big time !!
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:17 PM   #23
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Geezus herbert christ. Post an opinion about some parts you bought and watch the drama unfold.

MM's RLCAs are too expensive. Guess what? I get to have that opinion. I can buy two sets. Two. Of the SVE brand for one set of theirs. Im sure the quality is crazy good on the MM ones. The SVE ones are well built, too. Thats business.


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Old 12-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #24
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Made in America is a load of crap american business owners are pushing on everyone to bring the economy back...Guess what, the reason our economy is in the crapper is because all these american companies are greedy sum bitches! And they over charge for everything, and still outsource alot of there labor to other countries to make even more profit.

Hate to tell ya, but no matter how much "Made in the USA" you buy, it will never do anything for our economy. Our economy is in the hands of the weathly and as soon as they realize they cant be so greedy we will start to climb out of the hole. But this will never happen, lets be realistic. If itt was going to happen we would have already seen a decrease. Instead our debt keeps growing and our credit rating will keep dropping till we hit another depression and everything bottoms out.

So back to the subject....MM products are great, i will give them that. They are solid pieces, fit great and work great. But at the same time, the other products are made just as good and are made the same damn way. WITH A MACHINE! Now Im no fool when it comes to this subject...There are only so many machines in the world that can do good tig style welding on these pieces. And no matter what country its in, they cost about the same. So if a chinese man pushes the button or a american man pushes it, the cost of operating that machine is not going to change that much. And then, the chinese will ship it here and still sell it 1/4 the price. Something is TERRIBLY wrong here...

What I would really like to see, but I know will never happen in a million years. The actual cost per unit that MM pays for a set of control arms. I would really like to know how much they really have in each unit. I know how much they have in the raw materials, thats easy to look up and find the prices of the metal they use. But there labor rates and costs to machine and operate really spark my curosity.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:09 PM   #25
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To each his own. I agree, the debate get really heated on stuff like this. But here it goes, a couple of more opinions.

I support local economy the best I can, meaning the little guy. The privately owned hardware store that knows me by name. The one who only has a few customers and employees. The same one who greets me at the door, asks me what I am looking for and walks me all the way to it! I can get in and out in a few minutes cause everyone else is at the huge stores that don't have anyone to greet you and no one to help either.

Buy your cheap suspension s**t by some copycat and when you need something that doesn't involve also sending payment, see how good your customer service is. MM's knowledge base is EXCELLENT! Their service is EXCELLENT! I didn't say acceptable or good. I have been on the phone for an hour talking options on a single setup with these guys and never felt talked down to or rushed by their staff. I have had to call after the sale and received the same treatment. Try that with the other guys and you will run into issues, I know. Hell, ask MM about spring set ups and they throw out specific questions about weight, shocks, intended purpose. Ask one of the other guys and you get 2 choices, "Is it street or strip?" You get what you pay for and it all costs money. It's not just about what a part "LOOKS" like compared to another. It's everything that goes into it from inception to the end of the service life of that part.

Too many people are solely interested in saving a few dollars!!
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:31 PM   #26
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Nice "subtle" dig. Stay classy, bud.

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There is nothing subtle about my feelings regarding cheap Chinese crap. In my world, I will do anything I can to avoid buying something made in China. When it comes to putting parts on my Dearborn-built cars, I refuse to put a part on any of them that was made in China. I have sent parts back to LRS that were made there. I've declined to buy parts at the counter of the auto parts store. I've made Discount Tire call the warehouse to verify that the BF Goodrich tires that I was buying were US-made. If you look in my Canadian-made tool box, you won't find any Chinese-made tools. I refuse to patronize WalMart.

The quality of a lot of Chinese products goes way beyond "inferior" to "dangerous". They make baby formula that kills children. They make dog treats that kill animals. They make tires that randomly come apart. They make Mustang transmissions that fail in the first few thousand miles.

Do what you want with your money, but long after your Chinese lower control arms break at a weld on a hard launch and drive your rear tire into your quarter panel, my Maximum Motorsports LCA's will still be going strong.

Here's an old thread from this site about this very subject, and here is my all-time favorite thread on the subject.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:19 AM   #27
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Also, why is it that a company such as SVE can make the exact same product as you claim and charge so much less for the product? Granatelli chagres a much cheaper price as well, and there arms have rebuildable joints in them if you somehow manage to tear them up.
First, not all products are eligible for intellectual property protection - such as a patent. Some items are considered "in the public domain" and/or too common for protection. Second, even if an item can be protected with a patent, that protection is good for a short period of time - generally just time enough to recover R&D and marketing costs/brand identification. After that, the copy-cats can come in without fear of infringement. Ever ask yourself why there are generic and brand-name drugs? Why "Coke" is so different than "Pepsi" and so on? The stuff may look the same, but in most cases does not perform nor taste the same.

A lot can be accomplished by reverse engineering, but the guy who did it first and/or better knows the secret which is generally unknown to the other guys, or the cost to dupicate exactly exceeds the budget when looking to compete head-to-head. I think we have some or both of that going on here.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:47 AM   #28
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Granatelli are junk you will snap then into 2 pieces with over 600rwhp
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:11 AM   #29
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i really like MM's stuff, but cant blame danond for saving a buck. i want to get some control arms like these and hell if they were still $130, id order some this second.

instead of arguing and saying they are ####ty knockoff, give the man time to put them on and let us know what he thinks. for him, they may be the best thing since sliced bread
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:58 AM   #30
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I'm with Wythors. I don't mind paying a few extra for a good American made product made by a good American company. I don't think it's a good idea to go cheap on the suspension either. However I am guilty of buying the LRS subframe connectors
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:14 PM   #31
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Only time will tell how well these made in China lower control arms hold up.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:54 PM   #32
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SVE/GMS simply sent some MM RLCAs to a sales rep in the US for a manufacturer in China to copy. There is no design involved in that at all.
Jack could you please elaborate? I would just like to know how you guys came to this conclusion and or found out. Did you guys just simply put some of thier stuff in a jig or what?

I am in no way shape or form calling you a liar or anything of the sorts. I would simply like to know thats all.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:01 PM   #33
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Also, why is it that a company such as SVE can make the exact same product as you claim and charge so much less for the product?
Because they don't have to pay any competent engineers and designers, for one thing. They let other companies like MM do that heavy lifting, then completely rip off the work, contribute functionally zero tech to the forum, direct people to MM for instructions that actually make sense, and call it all the American Way.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:11 PM   #34
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03GT,

The issue here is not that SVE (really GMS) has been selling a RLCA that happens to have a weight jacker in it for the lower spring perch. Control arms with weight jackers in them are over 45 years old. The issue here is theft of trade dress. SVE/GMS is very clearly, intentionally selling an RCLA that has a cosmetic appearance that is as identical as possible to the RLCA that MM designed many years ago. The curvature is the same. The visible construction technique is the same. The same type of bolt is used to secure the lower perch to the weight jack screw. The color of the anodizing of the weight jack screw is the same. Any one that looks at photos of each RLCA can clearly see that the SVE/GMS RLCA is an attempt at a forgery of the MM RLCA.

You seem to be an expert on our pricing, so I'd like to see a list of dates and retail prices over the last 10 years for the MM RLCAs in question here. Please show me the so called price hikes that have occurred.

After you have posted your list, I'll post the actual retail price changes for this product over the last 10 years. We'll see how accurate you are.

Given that the price of steel has doubled in the last 10 years, the price of these RLCAs should have gone up at least 50%. The reality is that they haven't.

world steel prices - price charts - pig iron, scrap, billet, slab, hrc, rebar - pricing history

Given the rate of US inflation over the last 10 years, they should have also gone up in price another 4.4%.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/i...eInflation.jpg

Given the increase in steel prices and inflation, they have gone DOWN in price quite a lot.

I don't know why you make the assumption that the MM RLCAs have been "EXACT same" for the last ten years. Were you involved in the design of them? No. Have you taken any of them apart and examined the components, welding, metallurgy, bushing design, etc periodically over the last ten years? I'll bet not. In reality there have been a number of improvements made over this time period to the RLCAs.

It is funny that you mention the superior MM design with a sarcastic tone. Given that SVE/GMS didn't design ANYTHING here, virtually ANY MM design would be better. SVE/GMS simply sent some MM RLCAs to a sales rep in the US for a manufacturer in China to copy. There is no design involved in that at all.
Have you filed a lawsuit against GMS for copyright or patent infringement?
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #35
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I will stand by my statement, my military salary is WAY to crappy to drop so much on a set of control arms. Dont get me wrong, I would love to own a set of there extreame duty weight jackers. But dropping $450 on something I can spend $180 on doesnt make sense in my wallet. I buy everything I can on a serious budget...
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