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Old 11-27-2008, 02:07 AM   #36
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do THEY HAVE MAGNETIC DRAIN PLUGS for trans drain?

best way to fill up trans with no messy?
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:53 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamutoff View Post
Right I asked you to check your data before posting but you didnt do that, instead you are doing exactly what you are complaining about. I took the time to help clear this up because you have not.
This is incorrect.

My understanding stems from reading in shop manuals and knoweldge of fellow enthusists backed up by published www sites... where is your proof that T5's NEVER used hypoid/gear oil??

Here is a published article, I have not read this particular one before. It is new to me
---------------------------

"..Compared to NWC T5's the WC's benefit from needle bearings under the gears and tapered roller countershaft bearings for reduced friction. This change also allows the later to run considerable less viscous ATF fluid rather than heavy gear oil."

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...uild/index.php

---------------------------
WC compared to NWC

"The T5 5 Speed was originally manufactured by Borg Warner Automotive. The first T5 5 speeds were manufactured as far back as 1982" (perhaps 1981)

"There are 2 basic kinds of T5 5 speeds. Non World Class ( NWC ) and World Class ( WC ). The T5 is an evolution of the Borg Warner SR4 4speed. The SR4 was a lightweight design, ball bearing and needle bearing counter gear box using bronze synchro rings. The T4 was an improvment of this design, using tapered input and output shaft bearings combined with a drawn cup roller bearing countergear. The T5 NWC was a T4 with an added 5th gear.

NWC T5's were issued in 1982. First applications were in S-10 Blazers. By 1983 Ford started using them in the Mustang, (read: Non WC in mustangs here) GM had them in the F body Camaro and Firebird Cars, AMC had them in the Eagle and Jeep lines. AMC dropped the T5 by 1985 to make room for cheaper Peugeot and Toyota boxes. By late 1985 the first WC boxes were used by Ford. (some time existed where WC and NWC for ford) The WC boxes had 1st, 2nd, and 3rd speed gears riding on roller bearings instead of solid shafts. The countergears saw an upgrade to tapered bearings. The bronze synchro rings were replaced by fiber lined rings and dual cone designed rings to improve ring surface area. GM started using WC boxes as early as 1988 in the Camaro / Firebird line but still kept NWC boxes in S-10's and Astro Vans. By the mid 1990's most of the GM T5 installations were all World Class."

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/

---------------------------
one of the reasons why the fluid changed?

"World Class & Non-World Class
There are two basic kinds of T-5's, Non World Class (NWC) and World Class (WC). The first T-5 was non-world class. In 1983 and 84 Ford used the Non-World Class T-5 to improve the Mustangs performance and gas mileage. All the V8 NWC boxes had 2.95 first gear set with .68 overdrive. All the main output shaft gears and 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears riding on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication. The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load. All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a would-class T-5. It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC use the heavy 70w gear oil. Torque rating for the NWC was 265ft/lbs."

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...t5_history.htm

---------------------------
one of the reasons why the fluid changed?

...'"World Class" T5's began appearing in 1985 5.0 Mustangs (Ford) and 1988 Camaros (GM) ...upgrades include: roller type, caged needle bearings for the first 3 mainshaft gears... These units can be identified using a few methods... A yellow and black "use Dexron II only" label can also be used to identify a WC T5. This is because of the small oil transfer holes that oil the needle bearings.' (read: a good reason indeed to NOT use hypoid in WC)

http://bostonrpm.com/T5.html
Sorry. I could be wrong but my experience comes with over 12 years of working on/parting out/building fox mustangs & being certified in engine, tranny, transfercase & rear end lubes. I am not talking about any other brand of vehicle either. Just the mustang trannys. Not trying to upset you.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:58 AM   #38
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mobil 1 atf, behind 500 hp and working great!
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:01 AM   #39
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I use synthetic Mobile 1 ATF as well. Works great. BTW, Happy Thanksgivings guys!
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksters View Post
do THEY HAVE MAGNETIC DRAIN PLUGS for trans drain?

best way to fill up trans with no mess?


??????? happy turkey day
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:48 AM   #41
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im sorry but i had to post that. its an old arnold quote. just seemed fitting here





happy thanksgiving everyone
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:30 AM   #42
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The drain plug IS magnetic.

Easiest way to fill is with a hose attached to a funnel that you run down the back of the engine bay. Masochists will tell you it's easier to remove the shifter, but they're full of ####, unless the shifter is already off. You can also get a hand-operated fluid pump but in my experience they're messy and wasteful.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
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The drain plug IS magnetic.

Easiest way to fill is with a hose attached to a funnel that you run down the back of the engine bay. Masochists will tell you it's easier to remove the shifter, but they're full of ####, unless the shifter is already off. You can also get a hand-operated fluid pump but in my experience they're messy and wasteful.
The drain plug on a T5 is not magnetic . There is a magnet at the bottom of the case about the size of a silver dollar .
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:38 PM   #44
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Oops, you're right, I was thinking of the diff plug.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:08 PM   #45
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This post is all about emotion and nothing to do with facts or the thread. I am not angry nor sorry but will disect this post up for display... because the post attempts to "prove" its authors correctness by emotional pleading...

Quote:
Originally Posted by harvester of sorrow View Post
Sorry. I could be wrong but
Why would one apologize and then feel one could be wrong? Think about this for a moment. Please back up statements with facts. I have done so and attempting to refute facts without a shread of provable data or in this case there was NOT an iota of data, is illogical. These posts are terrible for a forum attempting to spread facts.
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Originally Posted by harvester of sorrow View Post
my experience comes with over 12 years of working on/parting out/building fox mustangs & being certified in engine, tranny, transfercase & rear end lubes.
Not good enough! This post seems to indicats that subjective opinion should be taken as fact even though refuted by published data![/QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by harvester of sorrow View Post
am not talking about any other brand of vehicle either. Just the mustang trannys.
The poster is now adding a new limit on their arguments that they had been THINKING of without stating. Even so, this does not cause a change in the facts nor the arguement. It has no bearing, they have not bothered to indicate how it could be meaningful.
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Not trying to upset you.
An emotional response should not be confused with facts. I now ask that you provide proof or concede becasue it is not reasonable to push as facts something just because you have always believed it to be so and now find that you have to make an adjustment.

Personally I have to adjust my preconceived notions all the time. As soon as I dont do so I will be old and stuck in my ways: this will be the end of my learning.
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamutoff View Post
This post is all about emotion and nothing to do with facts or the thread. I am not angry nor sorry but will disect this post up for display... because the post attempts to "prove" its authors correctness by emotional pleading...


Why would one apologize and then feel one could be wrong? Think about this for a moment. Please back up statements with facts. I have done so and attempting to refute facts without a shread of provable data or in this case there was NOT an iota of data, is illogical. These posts are terrible for a forum attempting to spread facts.

Not good enough! This post seems to indicats that subjective opinion should be taken as fact even though refuted by published data!
The poster is now adding a new limit on their arguments that they had been THINKING of without stating. Even so, this does not cause a change in the facts nor the arguement. It has no bearing, they have not bothered to indicate how it could be meaningful.

An emotional response should not be confused with facts. I now ask that you provide proof or concede becasue it is not reasonable to push as facts something just because you have always believed it to be so and now find that you have to make an adjustment.

Personally I have to adjust my preconceived notions all the time. As soon as I dont do so I will be old and stuck in my ways: this will be the end of my learning.[/QUOTE]

I got ya bro & i do understand what you are saying. The fact that i didnt base my experience w/ any written facts or links is ok with me. Its just my experience & has always worked & held true for me. I am glad we got to talk in PMs. You see like a cool guy & i will try as you do "to adjust my preconceived notions" & maybe try to learn something new with this. What works for me doesnt always work for others as you are pointing out however the above post w/ feeling the need to call me out that many times is a bit overkill in trying to prove your point & prove me wrong. Its because of stuff like this that after all these years of being a member here just makes me want to stay away from here.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:30 AM   #47
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do THEY HAVE MAGNETIC DRAIN PLUGS for trans drain?...
(Tremec) T5 service manual states:

Prior cleaning transmission case, check magnet cemented in case bottom for presense of metal particles. Larger, granular or irregular shaped particles indicate chipping or similar damage. Smaller, powder-like particles indicate uneven or excessive wear. If metal particles are detected, be on the lookout for damage or wear when inspecting rotating parts and those with which they mate
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:04 AM   #48
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Am in a turkey and food coma yet cannot sleep so poking about on www debunking my statements and came across a book published in 2005 that states that while "The WC T-5 in particular is very sensitive to fluid type and viscosity..." the non world class borg warner t5 manual transmissions "are fine with 70w GL-4 gear oil but GL-5 oil will reduce shifting performance somewhat."

Just thought that additional depth of detail might come in handy for someone somewhere somehow? eh, well its good to know I suppose!

Here is more info on the book and I will attach a screen shot of the affected pages


How to Rebuild and Modify Your Manual Transmission
By Robert Bowen

Published by MotorBooks/MBI Publishing Company, 2005
ISBN 0760320470, 9780760320471
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Last edited by Hamutoff; 11-28-2008 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:59 AM   #49
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Borg Warner manufactured the T5 (TTC/TREMEC does now). fordmuscle.com did not. 5speeds.com did not. moderdriveline.com did not. bostonrpm.com did not. Robert Bowen/MotorBooks International did not.

The following quote is from the BW/TTC T5 service manual. (STD = standard a/k/a non-World Class)

Quote:
Section 2
T5 WC & STD On-Vehicle Service and Troubleshooting

2-4. APPROVED LUBRICANT. Most T5 transmission models use Dexron II automatic transmission fluid. Refer the vehicle owner’s manual or service manual for lubricant specifications.

CAUTION

Do not mix different bands or types of transmission lubricant. DO NOT USE GEAR OIL IN THE T5 TRANSMISSION SINCE THIS MAY DAMAGE THE BLOCKING RING MATERIAL.
Now if you do as the transmission manufacturer says and refer to a 1983 and 1984 Ford service manuals, that were printed for Ford and used by Ford service technicians, they both say Dexron II.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:50 PM   #50
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NWC T5's have brass syncro rings just like the older transmission before it . They do not have the small roller bearings under the gears just like the older transmissions did . There is not a single reason ATF is needed in the NWC T5 just like it was not needed in the SROD , Top loader or any other transmission like it .

Will it hurt it to run ATF in a NWC unit ? No . Is it required , nope .
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:01 PM   #51
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I don't care if the STD/non-WC T5 transmission was made from SPAM.

Borg Warner said Dexron II.

TTC/TREMEC said Dexron II.

Ford said Dexron II.

Not a one of them said gear oil goes in the STD/non-WC T5. Borg Warner and TTC/TREMEC specifically said to NOT use gear oil.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:25 PM   #52
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You guys believe what you want to believe . I have built over 1000 T5's and feel like I am a little more in the know than most . The NWC T5 was used in Fords until 1985 . Gm used it in the Camaro until 1988 and the S10 was 1992 (if I remember correctly) and all of those units work perfectly fine with GL or even motor oil . WC T5s are totally different because of the type of syncros they have and the smaller oil passages and needle bearings which require a thinner fluid to properly oil the unit .
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