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post #1 of 15 Old 01-09-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Rear suspension questions

I currently have the MM catalog in my car; PHB, TA, lower control arms, coil overs, bilstiens, the works. But I am thinking about ditching the PHB, TA and going to a upper control arm and maybe even a anti roll bar.

Currently the car is going from a T56 to a built 4R70W with transbrake. It started to make more power than I felt like dealing with as far as clutches go. On only 10lbs it was making 750rwhp at 6,000rpms. So there is plenty more left in it.

I thought now would be a good oppurtunity to get rid of the TA before I break it anyways. I don't drive the car as spirited into the corners like the it is set up for and am thinking I might do more drag than corner carving from here on out. BUT I still want to be able to enjoy it on the street.

What uppers would you suggest?

Would you keep the MM lowers or change them out too?

Would you keep the MM coil overs and bilstiens?

Would you run an ARB on the street?


Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #2 of 15 Old 01-10-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kbscobravert View Post
I currently have the MM catalog in my car; PHB, TA, lower control arms, coil overs, bilstiens, the works. But I am thinking about ditching the PHB, TA and going to a upper control arm and maybe even a anti roll bar.

Currently the car is going from a T56 to a built 4R70W with transbrake. It started to make more power than I felt like dealing with as far as clutches go. On only 10lbs it was making 750rwhp at 6,000rpms. So there is plenty more left in it.

I thought now would be a good oppurtunity to get rid of the TA before I break it anyways. I don't drive the car as spirited into the corners like the it is set up for and am thinking I might do more drag than corner carving from here on out. BUT I still want to be able to enjoy it on the street.

What uppers would you suggest?
Any dbl adj upper with hiem joint end if you have non adj ride height lowers. If you do have adj ride height lowers, id try Baseline uppers.

Would you keep the MM lowers or change them out too?
If solid on both ends, Id run em.

Would you keep the MM coil overs and bilstiens?
Not if u want to drag race. Strange 10 ways will get in done, or Strange dbl adj if ur rich. Coilover kit (springs matching car weight etc) and stock cut springs in the rear.

Would you run an ARB on the street?
I have ran a teamz unit on the street for years, no issue... Watch out for weird steep angled driveways etc.
Bam


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post #3 of 15 Old 01-10-2017, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Bam
Thanks for the notes.

I have been looking at the doubles adjustables from Team Z

My MM Lowers are poly bushing ones.

I'll look at the Strange 10ways

Damn car never moves out of the garage. If steep angles are my biggest worry I should be good.

Sounds like I am just going to sell the lowers, TA, PHB, shocks - coil over kit and springs all at once then.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-10-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Not bad. My sister is a wholesale dealer with Strange and I need her to order a driveshaft and pinion flange too. I guess another 400 for shocks and a hundred or so for a spring set won't kill me.
https://www.strangeengineering.net/p...ckets-ea.html/

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #5 of 15 Old 01-10-2017, 02:41 PM
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Hook me up with a discount!

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post #6 of 15 Old 01-19-2017, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Hook me up with a discount!
If you want to call them for a quote, send me a PM and I will give you their company contact info.

I am not sure how much my parts list is gonna cost me yet. I'm afraid to send her my part numbers lol. But if like in the past, she will save me tons of money over buying anywhere else.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-19-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kbscobravert View Post
If you want to call them for a quote, send me a PM and I will give you their company contact info.

I am not sure how much my parts list is gonna cost me yet. I'm afraid to send her my part numbers lol. But if like in the past, she will save me tons of money over buying anywhere else.
Group buy maybe? I need some rear suspension parts for a coming build.
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post #8 of 15 Old 01-20-2017, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HLD-TYT View Post
Group buy maybe? I need some rear suspension parts for a coming build.
PM me what you have in mind. They are direct with nearly all but I doubt they are with Team Z though. I need to ask her.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-20-2017, 09:10 AM
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I went with a billet 8.8 flange for either the truck or car pattern. The large pattern yoke is stronger than the old cup and U bolt style.

The worse two things about the rear end for drag racing are the soft bushings that allow axle wrap (wheel hop) and the torque boxes in the floor, especially the upper boxes that get pulled back with quite a bit of tension when you launch. Then the ARB is next if you plan on drag racing with good tires.

I would weld the axle tubes to the center and re-enforce the torque boxes before they start to pull out before anything else. I would also use all solid heim joints in the UCA's.

The arm adjustments that make the most difference in launch are by far the angle of the lower arms. The lower arms push the car forward. The upper arms pull the floor backwards, they do NOT push. The upper arms behave differently in a Ford than they do in a real 4 link. I have gone mid 1.1's on slicks and mid 1.2's on DOT street legal tires by getting the shocks and LCA angles right and my car isn't that fast. The 60 ft is difficult for the other lane to overcome. If you wanna drag race, get that 60 down.



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post #10 of 15 Old 01-20-2017, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TomR View Post
I went with a billet 8.8 flange for either the truck or car pattern. The large pattern yoke is stronger than the old cup and U bolt style.

The worse two things about the rear end for drag racing are the soft bushings that allow axle wrap (wheel hop) and the torque boxes in the floor, especially the upper boxes that get pulled back with quite a bit of tension when you launch. Then the ARB is next if you plan on drag racing with good tires.

I would weld the axle tubes to the center and re-enforce the torque boxes before they start to pull out before anything else. I would also use all solid heim joints in the UCA's.

The arm adjustments that make the most difference in launch are by far the angle of the lower arms. The lower arms push the car forward. The upper arms pull the floor backwards, they do NOT push. The upper arms behave differently in a Ford than they do in a real 4 link. I have gone mid 1.1's on slicks and mid 1.2's on DOT street legal tires by getting the shocks and LCA angles right and my car isn't that fast. The 60 ft is difficult for the other lane to overcome. If you wanna drag race, get that 60 down.

Thanks for the reply. Your's are always so thought out.

Welding the tubes is on the menu when the rear comes out.

I found a deal on the battle box upgrades from Wild Rides. Luckily I went to a MM TA and removed the uppers when the car only had 30k miles so they are PERFECT still.

I am afraid of heims on the street. What say you?

I am looking at the Team Z poly stuff with adjustable arms and their ARB.

It's a heavy convertible (stick down dyno mat and added deadner mat, even in the doors). The car will cruise the streets mostly and hit Friday Night Drags eventually and hopefully make a Drag Week cruise one year. Working overseas I don't get much time home anymore.


Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.

Last edited by kbscobravert; 01-20-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-20-2017, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Group buy maybe? I need some rear suspension parts for a coming build.
Just spoke to her. They are direct with Team Z but their pricing structure leaves very little margin for retailers. I can still see what I can do. With as much money as I have in this jackstand queen, every savings helps.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-22-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kbscobravert View Post
I am afraid of heims on the street. What say you?

The upper arms are not at a 90 degree or zero degree angle to the rear axle. Because of their odd angle, they change angle between the rear end and floor mount as the axle moves up and down. To prevent binding they need a pretty flexible mount.

Ford used a soft rubber at both ends to absorb the angle change. Because they used soft bushing it let the housing rotate, and that causes wheel hop. To control the axle wrap and stop wheel hop, Ford added quad shocks.

The stiffer the bushing you use the less you need the quad shocks, but the more bind you get. This is why dual heims are best for axle control.

Assuming you use the proper bolts, which would have a smooth shoulder all through the bushing center and the frame contact points and be a close clearance fit, you will not get rattles with any bushing. What you will get, especially if you have a hard tire and short stiff sidewall, is a little more road surface vibration or tire imbalance vibration transferring to the body. But any stiffer bushing will do that, the stiffer the worse.

You just have to decide what you want to do more. Drag race with big tires and get rid of the quad shocks by using heim joints or real stiff poly and heim combos, or keep it more stock. Heims will not rattle at all if the bolts are right and heims will not bind, but they feel a little harsh on some road surfaces. They let you get rid of the quad shocks without getting wheel hop.

Whatever you do be SURE the threaded part of the bolts are against the least metal possible and the bolts fit the bushings with minimal clearance. If you don't, it will tear up parts and you will have constant rattle issues. Look at these bolts out of my rear end. I replaced the OEM bolts with shoulder bolts and used thick washers to shim the heads or nylock nuts so I could just snug the bolts without binding. The shim washers set the threads away from the metal so the sharp threads don't push into the metal. You can see what I mean by looking at the factory bolts from my car. (My F250 did the same thing on a rear shock from threads inside a shock bushing. It had the bolt almost cut in half in my truck.)
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-22-2017, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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The upper arms are not at a 90 degree or zero degree angle to the rear axle. Because of their odd angle, they change angle between the rear end and floor mount as the axle moves up and down. To prevent binding they need a pretty flexible mount.

Ford used a soft rubber at both ends to absorb the angle change. Because they used soft bushing it let the housing rotate, and that causes wheel hop. To control the axle wrap and stop wheel hop, Ford added quad shocks.

The stiffer the bushing you use the less you need the quad shocks, but the more bind you get. This is why dual heims are best for axle control.

Assuming you use the proper bolts, which would have a smooth shoulder all through the bushing center and the frame contact points and be a close clearance fit, you will not get rattles with any bushing. What you will get, especially if you have a hard tire and short stiff sidewall, is a little more road surface vibration or tire imbalance vibration transferring to the body. But any stiffer bushing will do that, the stiffer the worse.

You just have to decide what you want to do more. Drag race with big tires and get rid of the quad shocks by using heim joints or real stiff poly and heim combos, or keep it more stock. Heims will not rattle at all if the bolts are right and heims will not bind, but they feel a little harsh on some road surfaces. They let you get rid of the quad shocks without getting wheel hop.

Whatever you do be SURE the threaded part of the bolts are against the least metal possible and the bolts fit the bushings with minimal clearance. If you don't, it will tear up parts and you will have constant rattle issues. Look at these bolts out of my rear end. I replaced the OEM bolts with shoulder bolts and used thick washers to shim the heads or nylock nuts so I could just snug the bolts without binding. The shim washers set the threads away from the metal so the sharp threads don't push into the metal. You can see what I mean by looking at the factory bolts from my car. (My F250 did the same thing on a rear shock from threads inside a shock bushing. It had the bolt almost cut in half in my truck.)

That makes perfect sense. I am not as worried about the heim now. I totally understand what you are saying about the bolt/thread/bracket relations. Thanks.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #14 of 15 Old 04-19-2017, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I figure I should update.

I ordered Baseline Suspensions Street Outlaw Upper Control Arm system, his poly bushing ARB and I found a set of his lower Street/Strip lower control arms on the facebook.

For shocks I bought Viking coil over body rears from UPR with the stock location upper brackets and springs.

Since I sold all the MM suspension in the rear and the shocks/struts all around I ordered a set of Viking coil over fronts too.

The rear is out and should be welded and braced this weekend and then it is going back together.

Special mention of the customer service at Baseline, Kevin is a stand up dude. My used (lightly and for mock up) lowers that I bought didn't come with the bolts and spacers needed. I sent Kevin an email asking how much and he sent me a tracking number for a replacement set in return.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #15 of 15 Old 04-26-2017, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Did a thing




Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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