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Baseline Suspensions Outlaw Control Arms

33K views 24 replies 11 participants last post by  88coupelx 
#1 · (Edited)
I'd like to start out and say sorry for this being long winded. The history Of my car is that I put a 351stroker in the car back in 2005. Originally I built the car to run in True Street. In the time it took me to build the car I watched some of the cars get down in the 8s and it looked like I couldn't be that competive. Then came kids and life kinda got in the way. Long story short I got frustrated with the car and it sat for many years. It was built to be able to run low 10s on motor. One of the issues I had the last couple years is trying to get the trans brake to work right. Finally this spring I got it all sorted out. This was the result.

So after the trans brake I have serious traction issues. The converter stalls at 3300. I would think I would be able to hook decent but as you can see there is almost no weight transfer. As the car sits I think it is capable od 10.60-10.70 if I can get the 60' down to 1.5 or less. On the brake it does 1.73-1.74. Leaving at idle I can get it to 60' 1.67 or so.

Years ago I visited Kevin Slaby's site Baseline Suspensions. I was boggled by all the information and honestly a lot of it was over my head. This time I just thought I would contact Kevin directly and see if he could tell me what I needed to do to fix my traction issues. He didn't try to push any of his products and was genuinely trying to help me out even though I wasn't a customer. After talking with him I realized the combo I had didn't really have the amount of adjustability I needed. He recommended the Street Outlaw kit. Before making the purchase though I took the measurements on the car and ran them through the calculator on his site. Mainly just to see if I needed The outlaw kit or if I could get by with the standard relocated uppers.
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It as a result shows all the calcalations you need and what each of the six positions will net you as far as anti-squat, instant center, and IC height.
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Then I started to realize that I needed the adjustability this kit added. Not only for now but if I ever decided to change the ride height or any other aspect of the car I would need to make more changes.

The current combo was HPM megabite lowers, UPR uppers, an airbag in the right rear, Lakewood 50/50 shocks, and cut stock springs. In the front is Lakewood 70/30 struts and 14" 150# springs. As you can see in the video the front sits much lower then the rear. Kevin suggested maybe raising the front a little and lowering the rear a little more. This is the reason I went with the Outlaw kit. I needed more adjustability for future changes. I also realized the airbag is just a bandaid and decided to do it right and take that our and replace it with an anti-roll bar. After placing the order the kit arrived in 2 days.
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Pretty nice stuff. The only issue I had was I'm not a huge fan of red. I hate to be anal but I wanted them to be blue. SO I sanded everything down and painted the uppers and lowers blue. I hated to mess up the brand new powder coat but it had to be done.

I didn't get any in process pics but the finished product is awesome. The install was very straight forward. The instructions are very clear and follow step by step what needs to happen. The uppers especially look complicated but following the instructions you do start to realize that they are not that bad. I will say the support straps that bolt to where the vibration damper was are right and left specific. Ask me how I know that. Here is the finished product.
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I won't show you any close ups of my welding. If I welded for a living I would probably go hungry. I do have a few more things left to do. Setting the pinion angle and re-routeing the battery cable. But I hope to get track results by next Wednesday. I just wanted to give a shout out to Kevin and let everyone know what a good product he has. I also probably annoyed him to the point he wanted to stop answering my questions. However he was fast with his responses and dumbed it down so I could understand it. I am looking forward to testing it and I hope to get the first 10 second pass with this setup. I will keep you all updated.
 
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#2 ·
Once you get it working correctly, it should go high tens, a looser convertor would also help. What gearing does it have? Sounds like it could use a little more gear, it may just be that you short shifted the 1st/2nd shift. Definitely post up the results, once you get the car working correctly.
 
#3 ·
It's funny you could here that. I did jack up the shifting on that run. That would be the reason for the 11.46 on that run. It normally goes 11.25 or so. 11.15 is the best it has done to date. The gears are 4.10 and when all goes well I am crossing the line with the shift light on.

A converter and Strange adjustable struts are next on the list. I thought I would try to get it to hook before I throw a looser converter in.
 
#4 ·
Fix the converter first you will just have to start over once you have the converter fixed.
 
#5 ·
Subscribed.
Kevin helped me a tonne to get mine setup too... 10 years ago... and then mine went boom and is only being resurrected now. Anyways, my point is, I don't know how he put up with my questions upon questions either. Great guy to deal with for sure.
 
#7 ·
Tires are a 295/55/15 MT Drag Radial. The AS is 110% and the ICL is 36.5". I am going to have to recalculate it though as I have already made some changes. I raised the front of the car a 1/2" and the LCA are set at a different length. I am going to keep the rear of the car where it is. I have alreay cut a coil and a half from the rear.

It looks like tomorrow is going to be a rainout. They are calling for severe storms. Which may be a good thing. I need to get a little more work done on the pinion angle to get it right.
 
#9 ·
Nope no street time yet. I was just on vacation. I hope to hit the track Friday but it may be next Wednesday. Still trying to get the car back together. I will say that the kit is already paying for itself. I raised the front of the car and made other changes. I just ran it through the calculator again with the new numbers and will be changing to the #1 plate on the bottom hole. Huge change.
 
#11 ·


Taken late in the season. While this was still not the desired result it went a 1.61 leaving at 2800 . Every time I put it up on the brake (3300) it grabs and then the front end comes down and spins the rear tires. That will result in the same 1.7ish 60'. So I a couple more problems. One is the struts. I am on 70/30 Lakewoods and probably need more like a 90/10. The other and probably the biggest issue is the converter. I don't think the engine power at the low 3000rpm is making enough power to keep the heavy front end of this car up. Most guys with similar combos are running a converter in the 4500 all the way up to 5500 range.

I will be changing the struts and converter out this winter and will be back testing in the early spring. I need to try to figure out the hosepower output of the car and where I want the stall speed before ordering the new converter though. Any guesstimates for horsepower with my combo?
 
#12 ·
Taken late in the season. While this was still not the desired result it went a 1.61 leaving at 2800 . Every time I put it up on the brake (3300) it grabs and then the front end comes down and spins the rear tires. That will result in the same 1.7ish 60'. So I a couple more problems. One is the struts. I am on 70/30 Lakewoods and probably need more like a 90/10. The other and probably the biggest issue is the converter. I don't think the engine power at the low 3000rpm is making enough power to keep the heavy front end of this car up. Most guys with similar combos are running a converter in the 4500 all the way up to 5500 range.

I will be changing the struts and converter out this winter and will be back testing in the early spring. I need to try to figure out the hosepower output of the car and where I want the stall speed before ordering the new converter though. Any guesstimates for horsepower with my combo?
As you said, I think your converter is a big issue. I had a very similar problem when I first built my old 434ci setup. Had a tight 4000 stall in it for the nitrous for a motor that was shifted at 7200. It would hook initially on motor, pop a small wheelie and as soon as the wheels sat back down it would spin the tires and go 1.50-1.54 sixty foots. It hooked and went a 1.34 on the nitrous with that converter. I had the converter loosened from 4200 to 5200 and the very next time out it went 1.38 sixty foots on motor and picked up .2-.25 in the 1/8 on motor alone from 6.50-6.60 to 6.25-6.35 and picked up 2 mph at the 1/8.

So #1, get a properly matched converter.

#2, don't go with 90/10s, Strange single adjustables are about the same price and give you the adjustability to run them loose on bad track days and tighter on good track days.

What did Kevin advise for you? BTW I have the outlaw kit on my coupe and went a 1.27 sixty foot on the old Mickey Thompson drag radials a month ago. 1.42 sixty foot on the back tires!
 
#13 ·
Update: While still not able to do final tweaking of the suspension I finally made it to the track last night. I have video but it is such bad quality it is not worth showing. I did get the converter changed. It is and 8" 5200 stall matched to my specific combo. One other problem is the 2 step on my PMS is not working so I was just feathering the throttle manually to get the car to leave which caused it to spin on the first pass. 1.8 60' spinning the whole time. The second pass made it all worth it though 1.54 60' while still bogging and it went 10.83 @ 125. This is a new PB for me. While this still not where it should be I am getting closer and once I get the 2 step functioning I think it will go 1.4? 60' and hopefully mid 10s. Update hopefully in a week or two.
 
#15 ·
That was me. I think you may have been behind me in the staging lanes at one point. That is if your avatar picture is your car.
 
#16 ·
Well finally I got some decent results. My apology. I had many more things wrong with my car than just the suspension. I have a ways to go but the car is consistantly in the 10s now. If I was even a decent driver this pass would have been a 10.50. But one of those problems is the driver! I think it shows the potential the suspension pieces have given me. I was hoping for a 1.48 60' and got a 1.40 and a smile from ear to ear. Thanks to Kevin and his great advise my car is finally putting down some respectable numbers even though it's not completely dialed in.
Mustang Muncie Dragway - YouTube
 
#18 ·
Sure looks a hell of a lot better! Your video is like mine, kids/wife screaming with excitement. LOL

Keep at it, it's going the right direction!
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the compliments guys. I am very happy where the car is now but it needs a little more tuning. I think it will go easy 10.50s and maybe eek out a 10.4* with perfect traction and weather.

Blk88gt, the footage is not the greatest but the kids are getting better. I love the hearing their reaction. They have as much fun at the track as I do.
 
#21 ·
I think it's great how you realized that changes may be needed and that you are documenting and sharing those changes so people can see the results. Too many people think that bolting something on will give them the same results as someone else but the reality is that some people will have to identify and make changes to get the entire combo to work together. Good Job, it looks really good!

ks
 
#22 ·
I have never dealt with Kevin before but hear nothing about how he help people without pushing his awesome products on them.


Props for that. To some venders on here it's all about a sale......
 
#23 ·
Yes, Kevin has always helped me with suspension plotting and advice, even when I got my new coupe that didn't have any of his parts on it. That is one reason I went with the Outlaw Upper kit instead of the Autofab lower control arm kit with the adjustable mounting brackets on the rear housing.
 
#24 ·
Took it out again today after a few adjustments. I shortened the lower arms to center the wheels better in the wheel wells. Of coarse this changed the geometry of the whole rear suspension. So I replotted and came up with a 1.39 new best 60' which is above and beyond what I thought the car was even capable of. I'm very happy with how the car is performing now.
 
#25 ·
Awesome!!
 
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