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Old 03-31-2012, 10:55 PM   #1
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Help me pick a roll cage/ roll bar for my street/ strip Fox

I've got a 90' Fox hatch with a Dart 347, YSi, etc, etc... Made 700 rwhp with my old Si trim, getting re-tuned by Bob Kurgan end of April with the YSi, new Kurgan cam and 3" exhaust. Looking for ~850 rwhp. It's a street car that sits in the garage most of the time. I had planned to make it a road race car, but changed directions and want that 9-second slip.

I just ordered a full Team Z front suspension with coil overs and 12-170 springs. I really need to put a cage/ roll bar in this car. Optimally, the cage would be 9 second NHRA legal so I can eventually reach my goal. However, I am confused as to exactly what type of cage is required. I think it has to be 8-point.

I was about to order the MM 6 point roll bar since it's high quality and installs easily. But I think it's only good to a 10.0 ET per NHRA.

I want to do the cage right the first time. However, this car will be 90% street, just want to get that 9 second ET. I really don't want a cage that goes around the windshield and makes driving the car a PITA.

Also, I have old mid-length sub-frames in the car. I have a set of full-length MM frame connectors brand new in the box. Would these be a good idea to use or do I need to go with a thru the floor connector. Maybe overkill?

I tried multiple searches but couldn't find any helpful info....

Here's the car





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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's

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Old 03-31-2012, 11:18 PM   #2
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Find local fab shop and have them make one for you that way it fits nice and tight to pillars and main hoop is as close a possible to roof line and door posts. That will make life in a street car much easier the come in a box kits don't always fit every car perfectly. Good luck sounds like a fun car.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:18 PM   #3
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Chris Alston make a nice well fitting cage for Fox bodies, I would suggest install upper and lower battle boxes in the torque boxes and tie the cage into them, this will help problems from happening down the road.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:45 PM   #4
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Thanks guys. I thought about just finding a reputable chassis shop as you recommended. That way, I can get everything done at once and hopefully done right.

I also like the idea of tying the torque boxes into the cage. I installed upper and lower battle boxes about two years ago but never welded them, they're just bolted in. Can a cage be tied into these?

Looks like Chris Alston is in Sacrameto. About 8 hours north, but if they KNOW what to do with a Fox, and I believe they do, I would be interested in seeing what they have to say. Any rough estimates on what it should cost for a 9-sec legal cage, tied into the torque boxes and a nice set of SFC's? All fabbed by someone like Alston? I don't want to skimp in this area, want it all legit. I know it's going to be multiple thousands of dollars, but I'm sure it's worth it.

1969pony- I think I remember you from the Mustangs at the Queen Mary show last year. We were talking about my Kurgan e85 tune. My Fox was in the Vortech booth. It looked different, had the black moldings and different wheels then.
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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's

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Old 04-01-2012, 01:21 AM   #5
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I am in the middle of doing a Wolfe 10-point and thru-floor subframes.

I shopped around and it seemed like $1500-$2100 was the going rate for a moly 10 point locally. Im into the Wolfe stuff right at $920 after the Christmas sale they had.

Next time I will pay to have it done; chassis guys arent paid enough for how much work this stuff is LOL. The Wolfe stuff fits ok, just a ton of time to get it all together.

Good luck and nice car BTW
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:59 AM   #6
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Thanks Grim.

So $1500-2100 was the the rate for a fully welded/ installed 10 pt moly cage with SFC's? That's not bad considering the amount of work involved.
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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:31 AM   #7
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The prices I was quoted were just for the cage on 6x6's and running the 2 small bars off the main hoop to my original traditional-style subframes. The shops also told me that moly is marginally higher than MS around here.

Once I got to looking at how flimsy these floor pans are, I decided on the thru-floors.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:44 PM   #8
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Well after reading the 2012 NHRA rule book last night and realizing all the stuff required for a 9 second car, I think I'm just going to go with the MM 6 pt bar for now. It's NHRA legal to 10.0 ET and I've read nothing but positive reviews on the fit and finish.

I figure if I ever need an 8 or 10pt cage, I can add to the MM cage to make whatever I need. That way I won't be driving around with a full cage on the street since my car is there 95% of the time anyway....
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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:05 AM   #9
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doing chassis work is something you want to do right, the first time. if all the 9 sec stuff throws you off. i would still put in a solid 10pt moly cage. that will give you the safety and good foundation you need for later on. that will still let you run 10.0 and slower without issue. as long as you have the other required equipment.

i had buddies with the MM roll bar. and it's easy to install. but that's another 4-500 dollars you'll lose out on when you want to start collecting those 9 second slips. you already have the power for it. be safe and get a good cage.

it slowed my project down a lot doing a mini tub, 10pt moly cage, thru floor subframes, window net, aluminum flooring, fuel cell, etc etc etc. but now i have a badass foundation to only add power to and now worry about anything else. well worth the piece of mind i think

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:06 AM   #10
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great looking car too!
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE92NOTCH View Post
great looking car too!
Thanks. And your post has some really good advice. I think you're 100% right in what you are saying.

My concern is that I know this car will be a 95% street car. I'm thinking a 10 pt cage will be a bit cumbersome and even a bit unsafe while street driving. With all of that cage up front, your head will take a beating in an accident.

My problem is that I want a mostly street car that I can get a 9 second slip out of. I'm beginning to realize that once you cross over past the 10.0 ET mark, the car needs to be a lot more race car than it does above 10.0.
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Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
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well that's also where the advice comes in on a custom made cage. mine tucks super tight to all the body panels. and have swing out door bars so i don't have to worry about them on the street. just take them out and put back in for the street.








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Old 04-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #13
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That's a very clean cage install. If you don't mind, roughly what did it cost to get that fabbed up?

Another thing I'm wondering is how guys are tying into the torque boxes? I can see this greatly increasing the TB strength, but to hit the uppers, there's no way you'd be able to re-install the back seat.
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Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:12 PM   #14
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i'm not sure on the cage price. i'd have to look through the receipts. if i remember right, it was around 1300 for a chromoly cage with swingouts. but i had the following done and i supplied the mini tub parts. i think it was around 2600 for everything. can't remember if i paid for the axles, or were in that overall price

10pt moly cage
swing out door bars
thru floor subframes
window net
custom 15 gal fuel cell
mini tubs cut and installed
coil over mount installed
all tin work to finish out the back
tq box reinforcement bars, and a few other extras
parachute mount
install anti roll bar
shorten rear end
weld on 9in ends
strange 33 spline axles
weld and brace axle tubes
and custom kirkey seat mounts

and you could put the back seat in the car with the tq box reinforcement bars.

this pic shows the plate mounted to the area of the tq box. then a standard reinforcement plate was mounted on the underside, drilled through and bolted down. also welded the seams on the bottom side



this pic shows the lower bar that ties into the main hoop to support that plate which braces against the tq box. the lowers were simply boxed in and welded up. you would just have to cut and form the foam underneath to channel over this bar.




not trying to show my car off. but here's more pics to show you what i got for the install. just find a reputable shop and talk with them about your goals, needs, and wants. i'm extremely happy with how mine came out. just be patient. it takes time, haha













i did the finish work myself. he cut a lot of the aluminum big for me, then i trimmed and put it in place after some other work was done. but here's the other pics to show the fuel cell and how clean it ends up afterwards














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Old 04-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #15
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I have mine going to upper tq boxes with seats installed. U have to work a little to get the lower seat in but it works!! Can't sit ur buddies back there anymore but. Lol


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Old 04-02-2012, 09:28 PM   #16
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That is a too prettty car to to chup up and put a cage in it!!!
If u are going to do it figure out how fast u want to go. Moly lighter then steel, steel cheaper. U will also need a net. I would also go throught the front speakers grills, it just looks a lot neatier, Tie it into the subframe for better support. Like the wolfe design.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:01 AM   #17
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Thanks for the compliments on the car...

Mike92notch - Wow! That car is amazing. That's some serious fab work and done well. Actually all you guys have some good stuff and I appreciate the ideas. I really like the bars from the main hoop to the upper torque boxes.

Because my car will see so much street use and the track maybe a couple times a year, and the fact I really don't want to cross over into the sub 9.99/ race car category, I went ahead and ordered an MM 6 pt bar today. According to many reviews, they are extremely well built and fit great. They are not moly, but I think it will best serve the current purpose of the car. I talked to a buddy with an 845 rwhp YSi Fox who also runs the MM bar. He had nothing but good things to say about it.

Nice thing about the MM bar is that it can be added to easily and made into an 8 or 10 pt cage. I am definitely going to look into adding a bar from each upper torque box to the main hoop. That shouldn't be very difficult.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

I bought this bar:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...roducts_id=816
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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:19 AM   #18
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Garage
Good idea on sticking with Mild Steel instead of Moly. I've heard that the moly is too brittle for a street car and tends to crack over time (just what I've heard). So I was going to suggest a custom Mild Steel 10 point cage.

With at much power as you're pushing, its not a matter of if you dip into the 9s, its a matter of how many times the track lets you get away with it before kicking you out. Some tracks are strict, others could care less as long as you don't oil down their track.

Its strange, with my car, the first time I got a 9.91 time slip, the ticket lady asked for my license. The last time I went to the track I was running 9.50s-9.60s and they never said a word to me. But I'm tired of having to worry about running a 9 and getting DQ'd if I'm running in an actual event, so I'm working on getting my license.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:43 AM   #19
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Think I'm going to follow your act and go with the MM bar down the road.
And I will not have anywhere near the HP that you have.

I'll just be in the 10's and also a street car 95% of the time.
Thanks for posting and I'm sure you will keep us up to date.




Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveLiterFox View Post

Because my car will see so much street use and the track maybe a couple times a year, and the fact I really don't want to cross over into the sub 9.99/ race car category, I went ahead and ordered an MM 6 pt bar today. According to many reviews, they are extremely well built and fit great. They are not moly, but I think it will best serve the current purpose of the car. I talked to a buddy with an 845 rwhp YSi Fox who also runs the MM bar. He had nothing but good things to say about it.

Nice thing about the MM bar is that it can be added to easily and made into an 8 or 10 pt cage. I am definitely going to look into adding a bar from each upper torque box to the main hoop. That shouldn't be very difficult.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

I bought this bar:

Drag Race: 6-point, swing-out door bars, fixed harness mount [MMRB-2] : Maximum Motorsports, the Latemodel Mustang Performance Suspension Leader!

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Old 04-03-2012, 09:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE92NOTCH View Post
i'm not sure on the cage price. i'd have to look through the receipts. if i remember right, it was around 1300 for a chromoly cage with swingouts. but i had the following done and i supplied the mini tub parts. i think it was around 2600 for everything. can't remember if i paid for the axles, or were in that overall price

10pt moly cage
swing out door bars
thru floor subframes
window net
custom 15 gal fuel cell
mini tubs cut and installed
coil over mount installed
all tin work to finish out the back
tq box reinforcement bars, and a few other extras
parachute mount
install anti roll bar
shorten rear end
weld on 9in ends
strange 33 spline axles
weld and brace axle tubes
and custom kirkey seat mounts
Thats dirt cheap for all that work! I was quoted $24-$2800 just for a chrome moly 10 point with one swing out here in FL

Luckily I saved a TON of time and money by trading my roller and cash for a roller that is mini-tubbed and 25.2
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
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i know i got a great deal. the chassis guy was a friend of a friend. so he helped me out. but i also stripped the car down to nothing before i brought it to him. so that saved money as well. he just did his work and i put it back together.

took the glass out
every bit of the interior minus the dash
fuel lines out
all exhaust
motor, trans

it was just a rolling shell when i dropped it off
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:30 AM   #22
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fiveliterfox, sounds like a solid plan. just make sure you have some stout subframe connectors and reinforce those tq box before you lay down all that power. i'd hate to see you tear up the chassis if it's not up to snuff.

post up how you like it after the install. i know my buddies were happy with theirs
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #23
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Yes I'm definitely concerned about the torque boxes. I have the reinforcement plates installed. Just bolted in, not welded yet. What's the best way to strengthen the area?

I'm thinking weld all 4 plates to the floor pans, run bars from the main hoop to upper boxes, weld the seams of the boxes from under the car. What else?

And I have a brand new set of MM full-length sub frames. Are these decent enough? Not thru the floor but they're plenty strong.

These are what I have:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...roducts_id=585
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90' LX, Dart 347/YSi 843 rwhp
Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

13' Race Red Boss 302 #609, AMR wheels/ Eibach springs, Airaid CF CAI, Accufab TB, Flowmaster Super10's

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Old 04-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #24
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A lot of people on here run those subframes, i do not see a problem with those. U sound like u are on the right track, The only thing i would do is attach a plate under the torque box where the control arn goes, something like wolfe race craft. If u can find a shop that does really good work where u are at have them do a roll bar for u?

Have a friend that has a gt500 that did a roll bar. excellent work and the bars are removable so u do not have to deal with them while on the street. I got swing outs on mine love them.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:51 PM   #25
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5LF,if you plan on keeping the car for a while why take a short cut and get
something that will more valuable to you. I had a custom cage installed with
duel swing outs,certified to 8.50 When I had the area behind the front seats
done the seats will go farther back for more leg room. Something you may not
get with a cage kit.Also some seats interfere with some cage kits.


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